DaveTN

No, I meant they didn’t have Google to look up bomb making so they wouldn’t kill themselves and those around them.

I served during that time. I was not in Vietnam, but I am absolutely sure the outcome had nothing to do with how powerful our military was and everything to do with politicians calling the shots Military Commanders should have been calling.

Sure, it falls into the same category as those who claim wives lie during domestic disputes or family members might lie in red flag situations. Folks must take care of their own personal business. If they don’t and the cops are called they could find a 24 year old rookie straight out of the academy handling their (now not so personal) business. They may not like the outcome.

We all were back in the day. Until just recently I was 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

Good question. It's the Tennessee Department of Safety & Homeland Security. Is that under Federal Homeland Security?

It wouldn’t where I was and it wouldn’t here either. Intent is an element of the offense.

I have a couple of those. Problem is they require a half, or even one MOA shooter holding them. That’s where the problem lies.

Are you joining the ranks of us old retired guys? Good for you.

Of course, it’s up to the DA; its always up to the DA. Part of my point was that Tennessee law does not require the gun to be pulled. If a cop can’t articulate their justification for pulling a gun on someone; it’s a crime. Rarely are they asked to articulate that because it’s usually clear to those they would answer to. Many times, the citizens don’t agree with that. They then have the choice of filing a citizen’s complaint with the department or getting a lawyer and filing a lawsuit.

So the Police did either come there, or came to where you were, and gave you a trespass warning? As has been pointed out by others, you can claim whatever you like. You sound like you think if you have a believable story you will be acquitted, and you will get off. It may not work like that. And if it goes to court and you do get off, you will still have a lawyer bill, possibly in the tens of thousands.

No Google.

It would be aggravated assault if you committed an assault while armed with a deadly weapon. Whether you threatened to use that weapon or not. But you have to meet the requirements of an assault first. It depends on the DA. Where I was, we had “Assault” and “Aggravated Assault” and “Battery” and “Aggravated Battery”. Just like here, an assault or battery could go to aggravated if you were armed whether you threatened to use it or not. However, our States Attorney would not charge aggravated unless the deadly weapon was threatened or used. States Attorney’s in other counties sometimes would.

When they are accusing a gun manufacturer of shipping 26 guns to the home of someone, they knew was not a gun dealer; I don’t think that analogy applies.

No one will care what put you in “fear of injury”; only what would put a reasonable person in fear. You are either trying the old "He was going to punch me!" Or “If he punches me in the face, I could die” non-sense. It won’t work and had you shot someone in the situation you were in; you would have gone to prison. Because as we know now; the only danger was a bunch of emotionally charged young people in a confined space with one of them grabbing at a gun. You are young, so I’ll give you this information to help you out. The Police are not your friends. They are not there to help you with your domestic situations that you can’t seem to be able to handle. If you can’t handle your domestic situations; walk away. The security deposit would pale in comparison to what this could have cost you if they did call the cops. Open carry is not smart, fortunately for you it is not illegal. This situation is one of the reasons why it is not smart. From your description of the events no one was anywhere near a deadly force danger. Yet you are questioning if you were. That’s bad news for you, you need to rethink carrying a gun if you were considering using it in that case. A gun should have not been an element of this situation; but it was. It would be a part of the issues the responding Officers would have had to deal with. Aggravated assault does not require that you pull, or point, the gun. It only requires that an assault “Involved the use or display of a deadly weapon”. You being armed and grabbing your weapon met that requirement. If they say you grabbed it in a threatening manner, and you say you were trying to secure it; that is something that would be argued in court at your trial. Based on your description of events, and the fact we are just arm chair quarterbacking here; I would have arrested you for aggravated assault. With no other record the DA would have probably offered you a deal dropping it to misdemeanor assault with probation and the permanent loss of your carry privileges. You should learn from this experience. You were legally carrying a handgun, but its mere presence in open carry could have caused you problems, because you got into a situation where a gun should have not been displayed. We have discussed on this forum many times and very in-dept about the use of deadly force. One of my comments has always been that I’ll take an azz whipping before I pull a gun. If my loudmouth or my stupidity gets me in a situation my big azz can’t get me out of; I’m not going to use a gun to save my butt. Remember the saying “Don’t let your mouth overload your azz”. You can’t use a gun, or even the threat of using a gun in a domestic situation, road rage incidents, etc., where you are a willful participant. You can. but you will almost always be arrested and go to trial if you are still alive.

Don’t ever use the word “brandishing” when you are describing felony assault. Tennessee doesn’t have a brandishing statute. Was the threat to level a reasonable person would have thought deadly force was justified? No. If they did in fact call the Police after you left, there is a very good chance you will be arrested for aggravated assault. As E4 said above, based on their remarks you should have called the Police and waited for them to arrive. The first caller is the complainant, the second caller is the suspect. Don’t ever bring a firearm into a situation like that. If you are afraid of her brother, leave. Sorry if that sounds tough, but I’ve cuffed and stuffed too many people that made stupid mistake in a domestic situation.

POTENTIAL LEADERS: HEIGHT HELPS BUT SO DOES BEING SMART You don't really have to read past that in that article.

$360 and a transfer, and you will know. I say go for it. Of course, a .22 isn’t a good round for self-defense, but neither is a .380. Besides, you are saying there aren’t any other options.

And in my opinion…. Those responding to your shooting will more than likely not be attorneys. Those that decide whether or not you are arrested will more than likely not be attorneys. Those that decided if you are charged will be. Those that decide your guilt or innocence will not be attorneys. That’s because the justification for the use of deadly force is really very simple. If a reasonable person (That means responding Police Officers, interviewing Detectives, Prosecutors and then a Judge or jury, not you) would believe you are in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm; the use of deadly force is justified. That’s not rocket science. And any questions you have after reading that, you can probably answer yourself through common sense. Or research is very easy to do. Training is important. Knowing if you are justified in what you are about to do is pretty easy in most cases. Having the equipment and the ability to live through an encounter against an armed criminal that could possibly be better trained than you; is much tougher. You need training and practice to do that. Everyone should read the written law; your freedom will depend on its interpretation by you and by others. Then if you have questions; research them. If you are relying on the information of another; check their claims. If they claim to be the best defense attorney in the country on the use of deadly force; check that out. See how many cases they have won/lost, or if they have defended anyone at all. All of the training and all of the legal information is available to you. There is no need for the state to put their stamp of approval on it and require it to carry. However, as far as permits go, if the legislation the Governor just announced passes, it will become each individual’s responsibility to be properly trained, and no permit will be required. Or, if you want to carry to states that have reciprocity with us; you will need an Enhanced HCP.

I don’t doubt that there will be some issues and some people will die. There will be more Accidental/Negligent discharges, there will be more people shot because they have a gun in their hand when they shouldn’t, there are going to be more people go to prison that are otherwise law abiding citizens that did something stupid and illegal with a firearm. Do I care? Sure, I feel sorry for those people. Do I care enough to put an asterisk by a Constitutional Right declaring a training class and a permit is required? No. We could, right now, review incident after incident, of people that were “trained” according to the state, but got themselves or someone else killed through ignorant, reckless, or illegal acts. But that won’t change the minds of those that believe in what is documented in the Constitution. If this passes, I suspect a pretty smooth implementation with a few new stories here and there of stupid gun owners, pretty much the same as we have now.

Yes. They are giving firearms statistics.

St. Louis puts out good info. You can see the number of assaults with a firearm (along with every other crime). But the downloaded info is monthly, not yearly. You can delete out all the other crimes, and delete out the multiple offenses at the same time, and you would have your numbers. You would also have to decide what to do with Homicides. But you would have to do that 24 times to compare 2 years. I didn’t care that much; I’m pretty sure they are not being truthful. (EverytownMothersAgainstGunsSoOnAndSoForth)

Not me, not even a little bit. Being covered by a Constitutional Right is like being pregnant; you are, or you aren’t.

I don’t doubt that one bit. But what if the training required had to be at least equal to whatever your local PD requires for new Officers, including the testing? Would they be okay with that? I would be, but a lot of folks wouldn’t have an HCP. Some because they couldn’t commit to the hours and some because they wouldn’t pass the tests. I want people to have to attend a training class and pass a test to vote. That’s way more important. But alas…the SCOTUS said no, no tests for Constitutional rights. I think that's what they said; but I may have just made that up.

It would surprise me to see agg assault increase. Unless it truly did increase as a crime. Agg assault is a crime. Pulling a gun on someone breaking into your car isn’t agg assault in most states that I am aware of. Shooting them is…usually. It wouldn’t be reported in crime stats unless the Officer thought it was a crime. I don’t remember ever going on a call where someone pulled a gun on a shoplifter. I would give them wide leeway if they did. So I doubt that would change the numbers much. (But yes, I’m sure you can find some on the internet) Keep in mind agg assaults are usually a crime and there is an arrest. Homicides, not necessarily. So if armed home owners started killing more burglars breaking into their homes, or armed drivers started killing more thugs during car jackings; homicides rates would increase. But that wouldn’t necessarily give a good indication of what happened. Homicides that were justified are routinely included in crime statistics.

Ya know… when an MC rides into another MC’s area; it’s common courtesy to let them know. I think you guys should think long and hard about what you have done.