DaveTN

What are you guys searching for that you are dragging up three year old threads? Anyway.... The British called They want their guns back! <O:p> </O:p>

Congrats on getting your permit. Are you a Police Officer? With LEOSA why would a Police Officer need an HCP?

I’m not a lawyer. But I’ve seen people get in pizzing matches with Judges over what they were wearing, talking, how they were going to present their case, etc…. They lose…. Always. I think a Judge can pretty much do whatever they want unless you happen to have a senior judge in the courthouse to overrule them. (What are the chances of that happening?) Thrown in Jail for Not Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance

Either you math is flawed or mine is. I’m sure you make more than two bucks profit on a box of ammo, but at $2 that’s $1.4 million a year in ammo profit alone and you haven’t charged a range fee yet. If your 7,392 members all shot their 8 boxes of ammo in one range session a month and you only charged a $10 range fee; that’s $887,040 a year. What are you planning on doing owning everything out right in a year?

That’s a beautiful set-up, but they only have a few shooters at a time and they have a butt load of technology. (Not to mention the ceiling is also a backstop.) It must cost a fortune to shoot there. In this economy I would think that to get a lot of business it is going to be price driven.

I always assumed that insurance and zoning was the reason we don’t have more indoor ranges. On-Target in Murfreesboro is in a high traffic retail area. I always figured they must pay a lot for insurance and was really surprised they could even build it where they are. I guess that’s why it cost $20 to shoot and I haven’t been able to buy a gun from them. I have visions of a big complex with 50 yard indoor pistol ranges, 1000 yard outdoor rifle ranges, archery range, skeet, etc. With a large retail store with excellent prices (Like Buds). Doesn’t need to be in the city out in the country is fine. A one stop shop for all your shooting needs. But I guess if it would make money, someone would have already done it.

Good grief… thanks Dr. Phil. I’m not bashing Firemen; quite the opposite. I know a lot of Firemen and I know not a single one that would stand by and let a house burn over $75. I am bashing what these specific guys did on this specific call. I’m not mad or complaining about anything I’m just taking part in a very active thread. You need to calm down… take deeps breaths.

Correct. I can’t type any slower and I’m not using big words. Let me try this… Two issues are going on here: 1. The city is strong arming the residents for fire protection. Do I agree with that? Couldn’t care less; as someone else said if they don’t like it they can move. Do I think its right? Of course it isn’t right; it isn’t right at face value. 2. Is the issue of the Fire Department being on-scene and not doing their job because this guy hadn’t paid his $75. I have never been a Fireman, but I have been a cop and that isn’t how it works for cops or for Firemen where I was. Not because of the laws; but because we had professionals that would not stand by and allow such silliness to happen. Fire them? You must be crazy; that would be a career ending move for anyone that tried. I don’t know what you are talking about. I said I haven’t read this whole thread; I asked if these were real firemen and no one replied. Were these just some guys in town that happened to have a fire truck and had a little side business going? I obviously don’t have the information you have because you are justify what they did. Am I missing something? Are you a fireman? Come on man… how often do we see the Fire Department screwing up? Hardly ever. The threads about Firemen are always about how they just saved a baby from a burning building or got an old lady’s cat out of a tree. Firemen sit at the right hand of God; we never rip on them because they do their job. These guys didn’t and they aren’t deserving of the title. Tell them how I feel about them? I bet they don’t GAF how I feel about them, and they shouldn’t. But I bet they are getting ready to find out how the citizens in their area feel about them. I predict that at least whoever gave the order for them not to put that fire out is done.

I wouldn’t donate a dime to help this guy. I don’t give a rolling rip down a razor blade if he has a place to live either. That doesn’t mean that I would support a bunch of men that want to call themselves Fist Responders standing by and doing nothing. If they want to argue what they did was right they need to find a new line of work; they don’t have what it takes. There are bad people in every job; rarely do we see them as Fire Fighters. This is a very isolated incident where a few men made a bad choice. I can honestly say that if I was on the scene that truck would have been putting water on that house fire. If I lost my job; so be it. Who needs a job like that, or to work with people like that?

You are trying to justify what these clowns did by saying it would have been illegal; there is nothing to indicate that. I have always said that I am not worried about the military or cops going around collecting guns because they would not do it; it is wrong. Maybe I am wrong. According to you these guys failed to act because they thought they had been given a lawful order? Let’s hope none of them are cops or National Guard because if someone told them to go start collecting guns; they just might try. Seems a few here might help them. I have to say this…. I worked it a fairly big city (100,000). As I said before I worked with Firemen everyday and my Father in law was one. What happened here is no more the norm for Firemen than a cop doing something stupid and everyone bashing cops in general. What is different here is that people are usually pretty quick to judge cops and Firemen are usually the good guys. Mistakes were made. If one person gave an order to stand by and do nothing, then that person will have to answer for it. It doesn’t matter whether or not he had the legal authority to do what he did or not. The citizens in the area will have to decide if that is the person they want calling the shots for the FD. I certainly wouldn’t want him in that position. He has shown that he just doesn’t have what it takes to be a first responder. I’m really surprised at this thread though. No wonder common sense in guns laws is so hard to obtain.

Yes. According to what I am learning here if someone was in arrears on their property taxes or water bill it would be okay if the FD showed up and told them they were just standing by for a controlled burn. I wonder what would happen to a cop if they stood at the city/county/state line and watch a crime being committed and did nothing because they weren’t required to.

I didn’t mean to imply they had a legal duty to act; everything doesn’t require a written law.

If you dressed out and drove a freaking fire truck to the scene you had a duty to act. I don’t think people are letting emotions cloud their judgment; I know I’m crystal clear. It’s about morals and ethics. And I couldn’t care less what anyone’s opinion is on what should have been done. I’m judging the Fire Fighters that were there for what they didn’t do. If a Fire Fighter can even try to justify what happened that is moral turpitude. They don’t have the character or moral fiber to be a Fireman. We all know the guy did wrong. Firemen and cops risk their lives every day to protect citizens; even the ones that are doing wrong. Thankfully most of them are not like these clowns. These losers need to be fired (if they even had a job to begin with) they have proven that are unworthy of being first responders.

If he didn’t pay the fee; they weren’t required to respond… simple as that. However… they did respond and were on scene. My father-in-law was a Fire Fighter and as a cop I worked with many of them. I don’t think a single one I know would have stood by and watched the guys house burn. Apparently it was this guys misfortune that the Firemen in his area didn’t have the basic principals it takes to be a first responder. I didn’t read this whole thread, were these full time firemen that stood by and watched or volunteers? Either way they should be ashamed.

Being prepared for what happens after a shooting (Or an armed encounter) is as important as preparing for the shooting itself. Defending yourself in criminal and civil cases could destroy you financially; going to jail could cost you your life. Trying to find an attorney after working hours when you have just killed someone (if you are not prepared) is usually not going to have a good outcome. I can’t see me waving a gun at three protesters walking up to my vehicle; therefore I won’t have these kinds of problems. If someone can see themselves doing that; they might want to have an attorney on speed dial. That isn’t a fact. They way I read the story there was no encounter. If I’m at the gas pumps and three gang bangers start walking towards my vehicle can I start waving a gun around? Will we see the “facts†on this case? Doubtful. If the DA decides there isn’t enough to go to trail; he will drop the charges. If he is charged chances are the Doctor will make a plea agreement.

Ammunition fails. You have to clear it or hit it again. It’s a Taurus... I'm just saying.

There is no such thing as brandishing a gun in Tennessee. As a former cop (not in Tennessee) let me assure that if you hold a gun up to show it to someone you are trying to intimidate; that is aggravated assault. It would make no difference to me if you pointed it or not. Like any other crime it will be cleared through interviews of suspects and witnesses. So.. What assurance do you have that a hater would make an untruthful complaint against you? None. It’s one of the many, many reasons I don’t open carry. Have innocent people been convicted? You bet, but that’s true of any crime. It's what we do here. We Judge people on little or no facts. Sometimes we simply make up facts as we go along. We are not a court. If you are here you are being tried in the court of public opinion. As long as the discussion/debates stay civil it is simply entertainment. Sometimes the laws are discussed and you may learn something. Sometimes you will see posts by people that are clueless, you just need the intelligence to be able to tell the difference and move on.

You just hit on something many people don’t understand…. No one cares how he felt or how you feel in a shooting. The question is would a "reasonable person" feel they were in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. Here is the order of “reasonable people”… the cops on the scene, the cops investigating the case, the DA, possibly a Grand Jury and possibly ultimately a Jury or Judge. Because the cops and the DA don’t believe his story and they want to send him to prison. No, but that depends on you. You have to think long and hard and decided what you want to do. If you refuse to make a statement there is only one side to the story and it is not yours, and yes it is going to cost you. On the other hand if you say something stupid it can be used against you. And even if you aren’t charged criminally, that doesn’t mean you won’t be sued civilly. Don’t you ever wonder why the laws on killing someone aren’t cut and dried? Because most everyone wants you to know that if you pull the trigger your freedom may be taken away and your family may be financially devastated.

The Arabs are already gouging me at the gas pumps. What is there about this weapon that would make me want to turn my back on Americans and give the Arabs my gun money? Sorry… a lot of people were thinking it someone had to say it.

I hate thugs. This issue is full of bullies and thug wannabe’s on both sides; with the business owners in the middle. Your state legislators did this not the business owners. Making idle threats against business owners won’t help anything. The ones that have posted have already called your bluff and I doubt they miss your business. I know this isn’t a popular stand on this forum; but blame the people that caused this. If these business owners don’t understand the new laws why don’t you go meet with them instead of whining continually about it here.

I don’t think my purchases out thoroughly. I don’t get attached to handguns; I buy and sell on a whim. I think I’ve owned everything worth owning that was made here and some of them several times. Everything in life, including handguns is application driven. Change the application just a little and it will change the firearm.

I wouldn’t paint a magazine. Have you really run out of firearm related things to spend money on?

It appears the protestors are saying there was no confrontation. He simply displayed a gun when they walked up to his vehicle. He then walked into the clinic without incident. The protesters aren’t saying if there was anything said; and if the Doctor has a lawyer he has probably told him to keep his mouth shut (Which I believe is a mistake if he was in the right) Obviously the investigating Officers recovered a gun or we would not know it holds 15 rounds. We don’t know what he has to say. If he was inside his vehicle and pointed a weapon at them, and then got out and walked in the clinic; it will be tough for a reasonable person to believe he was in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. Of course everyone’s feelings about abortion will color their decisions on this. From the responding Officers, the DA, the Judge and eventually a jury; feelings on abortion will matter. My first thought was did he call 911? If he didn’t and he tries to argue he had cause; he’s hosed. My second thought was what happened that caused him to feel safe enough to put the gun away and get out and walk into that clinic? Hers a story with a little more info…. Police: Abortion doctor pulls gun | The Post and Courier, Charleston SC - News, Sports, Entertainment

You have got to be kidding me; why would anyone mess with this? $50 will buy a lot of plastic bottles and duct tape.

It’s not hard. If you don’t have a criminal record, you pay $30 and it takes 4-6 weeks. I saved $140 on a Leupold scope on my first purchase from Midway after getting mine and getting the lower pricing from them. I use it more for the discount than buying C&R guns. I would guess it as saved me over $500 in four years. It’s not like a real FFL where you have all kinds of location and business requirements. It’s not a license to sell, so it’s just paperwork. There are a bunch of threads here about it.