DaveTN

This issue has been discussed here many times. There are those that believe if they acted legally they can’t be sued. I’m not an attorney and don’t play one on TV, but I don’t believe that is true. So, let’s look at the actual law… I don’t see any immunity from civil action. What I see is immunity from liability, and a clause that allows for a judgement for compensation of attorney fees, etc. after justification has been determined. While that is better than nothing; a judgement against someone that doesn’t have the ability to pay, really means nothing. You are still stuck paying the bills. I have always thought that should be changed and if the Judge determines that the attorney that filed the case knew, or should have known, the force was justified; they could be held liable as well. Of course, with attorneys making the laws, I doubt that will ever happen.

I haven’t seen the online course, but… There is no law that would make you “immune from civil litigation” in so far as not having to get an attorney. You could be immune, but to the best of my knowledge that would require the DA saying you were justified (highly unlikely) or a ruling by a judge. I doubt the fact that you haven’t been charged will suffice. Also, without going back and reading it, I think it allows for a judgement against the person filing it (For attorney fees etc.). Good luck collecting that. Going by the BAC limits for driving a car is wishful thinking on some people’s part. There is no BAC limit stated in laws involving liquor or guns. If the DA decides you are justified in using deadly force; they won’t charge you with weapons charges. The course doesn’t talk about reciprocity because that’s up to the state you are in, not Tennessee. However, keep in mind in discussing all these questions; every case is handled on its details.

I don't know, but if the pistol fired out of battery it would only need to happen once to destroy it and possibly hurt whoever was shooting it.

Short of checking each round how would you know if you were fully in battery? I don’t know what would happen if you took the disconnector out. But scroll down to “Pulling the trigger” in this animation. It says without the disconnector the gun would jam. Since you have determined there is a problem with either the fit or the thickness of the disconnector; I would send it back to Sig for repair. https://animagraffs.com/how-a-handgun-works-1911-45/

Exactly. I’ll add this… I put zero importance on how any of this impacts my ability to carry in another state…zero. I in no way support any kind of federal carry permits, or allowing the Feds to place their heavy hand in our gun laws. Reciprocity between two states needs to be just that.

It could be you expect more than junk for your money. M&P 22’s are the same way. The so called “Full size” is made overseas by an air soft company and the “Compact” is 80% of the size and about half the weight. That’s unacceptable for me. I own a 617 and just bought a Ruger Mark IV Competition, and would spend the money on a full size quality M&P 22, but not the junk they are serving up now. And I’m a Smith & Wesson Fan Boy.

Sure, this appears to me it’s a better deal in this state. I mean there is some limited stuff, like in Illinois either permit would allow you to have a loaded handgun in your car; this won’t. I don’t know how many other states that would apply to.

I thought it was going to be a thread about what size inner tubes fit the grips of various pistols.

It appears it applies to Tennessee residents only as that is part of the requirements for 39-17-1351 b. I don’t see any changes for where you can or can’t carry from what it was for a permit holder. It appears to me that this gives all Tennessee residents (expect felons, etc.) the privileges of an HCP, except for those privileges granted by other states. I'm not sure when that would be??

You can change it. Just click on EDIT at the bottom of your post, make the changes and click on SAVE.

Constitutional carry is just what we call it; its not what it is. I only expected it to remove the requirement for a permit. I don’t expect the state to acknowledge an individual right, and that they have no control over when or where your carry; I don’t think many, if any, states do. I don’t expect where you can carry to change. It can’t make private business comply, even those open to the public. Tennessee is too dependent on tourism to allow that. I would expect it to cover everyone, resident or not. So they will lock-up non-residents? That won’t fly. I would expect it includes 18 year old. However, it could be something less than Constitutional Carry. Many times on here you see “Why can’t we be like XXXX?” and they go on to name a state that isn’t a constitutional carry state. This could just be more gun privileges; but not full Constitutional carry right. But we are merely speculating until we see the bill and the final that gets voted on. Tennessee democrats picked Biden yesterday. If we ever get a Democrat for a President with Democrats having control of the House and Senate; this could all change quickly.

Is there an airport around there that can land Air Force 1? I think he will be coming in and out of Nashville.

Don’t try to go anywhere around Nashville on Friday. I know all the presidents do this, and they think its expected of them, to show respect for those affected. But all it does is shut down traffic and hamper those trying to get things restored. President Trump, please send one of your representatives that they don’t have to shut the whole city down for and just send your respects on FOX news. I bet everyone regardless of party affiliation in the area would appreciate it.

There is no law against brandishing in this state. If you pull your weapon because of a threat, or you aren’t threatening anyone in pulling your weapon; it is legal. If you aren’t justified, and your intent is to threaten someone its aggravated assault. Example: Hey Joe! Check out my new carry gun. (as you pull your coat back.) Unless you are in a place where carry isn’t legal; you are okay. Another example: Joe! If you don’t get off my property it will be bad for you. (As you pull your jacket back to reveal your gun to your neighbor.) That’s aggravated assault and you don’t have to touch that gun. You do however get a free stay at the local jail. However….. the new concealed carry only laws may have something in them for those people. I haven’t looked at that. But searching Tennessee Code Annotated for brandish or brandishing; there is nothing.

Okay, but why do we need the cost of a DVD? Put them on the training site. Don’t they show gory films like “Death on the Highways” in Drivers ED anymore? They may help but plenty of people still drink and drive. Plenty that are even first responders and see it firsthand.

If that’s directed at me; I never said you indicated someone needed a class to own a gun. You just want a 2nd amendment right to have an asterisk with a training class requirement. And you certainly have a right to have that opinion. As you can see; many agree with you. Many that see themselves as pro-gun. And yes, it is a God Given Right, it’s an inalienable right. As I’ve said many times before, my right to protect myself and my family doesn’t come from a dog like the 2nd amendment. I believe in God, and what other people believe or don’t believe has zero impact on that. The state of Tennessee disagrees with my beliefs and is more than willing to put me in jail if I violate their laws. I am absolutely sure of that.

And that’s my point. I’m not saying people don’t need training. Absolutely they do. And if they don’t get it, they risk losing everything they have in a civil suit, or possibly ending up in prison if they don’t fully understand the laws. But rights don’t have government training class requirements. If the state, or some group of concerned citizens think it would be a problem; they could offer free training classes. Heck, an online class can teach you not to leave your loaded gun laying around where kids can get it, or a laundry list of other ignorant things you shouldn’t do could be covered. For free! If Constitutional Carry gets passed there would be no real need for the concealed carry class. So, the training site would already be in place. The HCP classes would remain in place for those that want to carry beyond our state borders. Two things that I said many times should be offered by local government: free seminars by the local DA’s office covering gun laws and the use of deadly force, and free handgun training classes at Police ranges for local residents. If those two things were combined by a city or county the people could be trained at the range on gun safety and accuracy instead of getting bogged down in the gun laws, because that was covered by the DA. When I was a cop if we had questions about a law, we could either stop in or call the States Attorney’s office and they would answer our questions. Obviously, they wouldn’t have time to do that with the public, but they could schedule seminars. But it probably won’t happen, and I suspect that is because being attorney’s they fear the liability of training citizens more than they care about the lives it might save, or the people it might keep out of prison.

Three Slot, Thumb Break, Leather is my holster of choice. I never knew Black Hawk made anything but kydex. I’ll consider them next time, Amazon has some really low prices on these, are they good quality?

I understand fully what you are saying. I simply don’t agree with it or think it will change anything. There have been many stories on here from members that have witnessed people do stupid things or have the inability to properly shoot the HCP test; and were passed. My friend and his wife took the HCP course. She couldn’t pass the shooting test using a quality revolver. They let her come back and shoot it again. She used a scoped .22 handgun. However, people aren’t generally getting shot because the shooter missed. They are getting shot because someone is either careless or they intentionally shot someone. Our states training won’t stop that. Many of the shootings we see are by people that are trained and knew better. I refuse to believe that you have to go to a state mandated training class to be taught to not leave a loaded weapon laying around, or to clear a weapon before “playing” with it.

Welcome. Did you guys ever get those votes counted?

Terrible news. I fear two things; wasps and tornados.

I didn’t know this existed, but here is a website that tracks unintentional shootings. (The numbers to be used later in anti-gun legislation). Those of you that want to tie our constitutional rights to this number will be able to compare it when the new laws kick in. I just put a 2018 to now sample in, but it goes back to 2015. There are stories and news links to go with many of these shootings on the site. It doesn’t tell you how many of the adults involved had been through a carry class. I doubt that would have made much difference. Do people really need to attend a class to know; keep guns away from kids? Or to unload their guns before they clean them? Of course they don't.

Any idea when it will go to the floor for a vote?

From Johnson and Nixon to Trump? Absolutely. I’m pretty sure that Donald Trump is listening to his Defense/Military Commanders. But I could be wrong.

There isn’t much point in discussing this any father. We were being facetious about the first caller (kinda). But it means if the responding Officers only have one side of the story; that is what they go with. If they don’t get in contact with you and an arrest warrant is issued, there is a very good probability the Officers arresting you will have no knowledge of the incident and simply take you in and book you, where you will wait for the detectives to interview you, if they want to. That’s why I taught my kids if they think someone called the cops on them, call in themselves and ask the dispatcher what they want them to do. The cops are almost always called when a gun is involved; it makes for high drama on the part of the callers. My son doesn’t carry, my daughter does, but she won’t open carry. As a Police Officer you will never be required to make an arrest or violate anyone’s rights if you don’t believe they did what they are accused of. In the case of a felony you may be required to arrest them or contact a Command Officer if evidence or witnesses are claiming a crime, but for some reason you don’t want to arrest them. But yes, because you are paid to enforce the laws, and not hold court on the street you may make some arrests that you don’t like. If you can’t do that; don’t be a cop.