DaveTN

The DA and a Grand Jury did.

You obviously have more information that the rest of us have. Are you talking to someone involved in the investigation? I’m not blaming the guy that made the report; it’s possible everything he said is true. I do find it unusual that it’s been five days and the witnesses haven’t been interviewed. Contrary to popular belief if one of the Officers on the department I was on had been accused of pulling a gun on someone without cause; our Chief would have made sure the witnesses were interviewed that day. This investigation should have been over by now. Here’s another story, but it doesn’t add much other than to confirm they were Oak Ridge Officers and one has been placed on "modified" duty. Oak Ridge police chief awaits KPD report on incident involving OR officers - Oak Ridge, TN - The Oak Ridger

I’m not saying they are right; I have reserved judgment until we hear what they have to say. As I pointed out earlier they should have called it in. I’m just pointing out that if this driver had been making these accusations against an HCP holder this discussion would be going very differently. If I was an off duty cop I would not have done this. If he jumped out of his truck on me he would be in handcuffs when the Officers arrived, or I would be following him until marked units found us. And none of this would have been in the news. We are arm chair quarterbacking a situation where a gun was pulled; that’s what we do here. I have my own wild ideas of what could have happened; but I’ll save them for later.

Lets say these weren’t cops, but where HCP holders. They are located and the one that pulled the gun says this guy jumped out of the truck, was yelling and approaching them in a threatening manner. He was scared and pulled his gun. The guy in the truck left, they thought it was over and decided not to report it. Should they be arrested? Are they guilty of anything other than not calling the Police to cover their azz? Pulling a gun does not equal using deadly force. Pulling a gun without justification is aggravated assault. If a truck driver jumped out and started yelling at you do you think you should be arrested for a felony if you displayed a gun?

oops, I put this in the wrong thread.

I don’t see any problem with the can. But did saying he would never buy another Pepsi product really result in being banned from FB?

I’m also giving the Officers the benefit of the doubt because we only have one side of the story. But Officers are also trained that if they have to pull a gun on someone off duty; they report it immediately. If they did that, this may be a non-issue. I can’t picture myself pulling a gun on someone off duty and not taking them into custody right then.

China has reason to defuse the nuclear threats that have been coming out of North Korea. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. You can bet the U.S., China, and the Russians are deeply involved in this.

That was two days ago. Whoever the vehicle check to has been contacted and interviewed. Be interesting to hear what happened.

Have you considered the Smith & Wesson M&P? It is a solid proven performer. The fact that’s it’s made by Americans in America and has the backing of the best customer support in the industry, should you ever need it, is just icing on the cake.

I always go back to the basics; “Stop the threatâ€. If you are facing an opponent armed with a gun or a knife, you need to be able to make him unwilling or unable to shoot or stab you. I don’t care if he dies, I don’t care about velocity, inches of penetration in ballistic gel, none of that. I only care about stopping the threat with extreme prejudice.

Don’t trust your future and the future of your family to anyone; cop or attorney. That’s why we have these discussions. Attorneys have given their opinions here, Cops and former cops have given theirs, homicide detectives and Officers that have been the first responders have given theirs, people who have been involved in shootings have given theirs, and people who have no experience and no legal training have given theirs. The responsibility for your future ultimately falls on your shoulders. You need to know the law of this state the best you can. You need to read the law and listen to those with experience and not let your decisions be colored by some hatred or distrust of the system. You need to be able to make the best decisions based on the information available to you. We have seen on this forum that even attorneys licensed to practice law in this state have disagreed on issues, Police Officers have disagreed with presented with specific scenarios. You are left with making your own decisions. I compare this to a year and half ago when I was diagnosed with cancer. I talked with my family Doctor, Urologist, an Oncologist, and a Surgeon. I was scared; my life and my future were at risk. I was frustrated because three of those four professionals gave me my options and then told me they couldn’t tell me what I needed to do; I had to make that decisions. The forth told me “You only have one real option, and here is whyâ€. Based on what the other Doctors had told me and the research I had to do; he was right. I decided to do what he said. Did I make the right decision? We still don’t know, but things look good. I had more professionals and more experience helping me than you will have in a shooting, and I still ended up having to make the call. I will have to live or die with that decision, but I used every resource available to me to make an informed decision. Going to prison would be worse than death to me. So I try to know everything I can about the law and the procedures where I am.

It is my understanding the jury was deadlocked and the case ended in a mistrial. The attorney for the family agreed to not pursue the case if the County and the Officers involved agreed to not sue the family for malicious prosecution. So where did a cash settlement or a ruling that anyone’s civil rights were violated come from?

That’s what I’m saying. You are as much a part of what is about to happen to you as the responding Officers and the DA. Decisions about my future are going to be made; I want to be involved in those. If you don’t think you can make good decisions based on what you did; you need to be able to call someone that handle the situation.

I’m not saying you don’t have a right to remain silent (Although I doubt you have the ability ) and I’m not questioning the advice of an attorney. I’m simply stating that if you think the cops will get back with you whenever it’s convenient; you aren’t in touch with reality. You would be your own worst enemy in the aftermath of a shooting. You don’t understand what the Police can and can’t do. You need to be able to talk to your attorney at 3AM.

If you are talking about the North Hollywood Bank of America shooting, yes the family of one of the shooters sued. Dirt bags can always find a lawyer to take a case against deep pockets. They ended up settling for an agreement that the Officers wouldn’t sue them for malicious prosecution. The two young sons got nothing; the lawyer got a lot of media attention. He didn’t get medical attention because all the emergency personnel were busy dealing with what he caused.

Good grief...You think you are going to be standing over a dead body invoking your 5th amendment rights and the world stops and waits on you because you got the word “Lawyer†out of your mouth? Some of you need to rethink your plan.

I’m not suggesting that you are required to give aid or get anywhere near them. I’m suggesting that you have a legal obligation to call for help whether you are a surgeon or a ditch digger. If the Coroner says the guy laid there for an hour and bled out, you may have a problem whether the shooting was justified or not.

I’m sure that once the threat is over you have a legal responsibility to get them help. I’m not going to look for a law to quote, but I’m pretty sure you can’t shoot someone and then wait until they die to call 911.

I don’t know how it is in Tennessee, but in Illinois if you went before a Judge on a plea they would explain to you that they are not bound by any sentencing agreement you have with the DA. They would then ask if you understand that and if you still want to plead guilty. If you do, you are waving your Fifth Amendment rights and have to tell the Judge everything you did. I don’t believe the judge was bound by this agreement and he could have refused to accept the reduction in charges. I’m not saying what the DA did wasn’t wrong; but they can’t do it without the Judge.

Not at all, nothing wrong with being prepared. But if that’s what you want to do; that needs to happen right then. I was a Patrol Officer, not a homicide investigator. The first thing that happens is I call our Patrol Command, tell them what I have and they start making decisions about who and what is needed at the scene. I personally want them making those decisions based on me telling them what happened as opposed to the Officer telling them “We don’t know what happened he is refusing to make a statement.†But as I said before, you need to do whatever you are willing to take responsibility for. If I shoot someone breaking into my house; I’m making a statement and ending it right then. If you are in a questionable situation, like a road rage incident or shot your neighbor because he was going to kick your azz; it’s probably time to lawyer up. The sad thing is the lack of information available to citizens. Being able to read the law on an internet site doesn’t offer you opinions on how local DA’s will handle a case and doesn’t offer case law that may impact the written law. As a cop I had the luxury of knowing what the cops will do, being able to talk to the States Attorney for their opinions, and being able to talk to local Criminal Defense Attorneys’. I think local DA’s should be willing to meet with citizens groups and explain the laws like the use of deadly force, after all they are the ones that will decide if you are charged.

What was lacking when Loughner became an active shooter was guns. Would it have stopped him from shooting? Probably not, but I bet the body count would have been lower.

Everyone has to do whatever they are ready to take responsibility for. You are going to make a statement; it’s just a matter of when. If you say you are not making a statement until you talk to an attorney, that’s fine. But having a plan to be able to do that is more important than the ammo you use or the gun you carry. I just think a lot of people posting that they aren’t saying anything until they talk to an attorney haven’t made the arrangements to be able to do that outside normal working hours. Having been involved in many shootings investigations I know that during that time decisions are being made about my freedom and my family’s financial future. To not be prepared to be involved in that is as stupid as walking around with your finger on the trigger. An attorney is like a gun, they are useless if you don’t immediate access to them.

We already have laws against it in this state. Not only is texting illegal but if you kill someone in a crash (that’s not an “accidentâ€) its’ vehicular homicide. The 19 year old in that story paid for his mistake with his life. Unfortunately he took the life of another and injured 38 others.

A private company has no business providing security for government workers in another country or a war zone. Why should I as a tax payer be paying the high rates of a private security company when we have better trained personnel in the military we are already paying for?