DaveTN

  The race card has already been played; the community did it. They claim he was targeted because he was black. Right or wrong it worked; they got the Governors attention.   Who here has implied you are a racist for your views?

I will have to DVR the trial to keep up. http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/after-strong-jodi-arias-ratings-hln-looks-ahead-to-george-zimmerman-trial_b180390    

If we stop speculating or making arguments for one side or the other this thread would be dead and we would have to wait for the trial to end. Where’s the fun in that. I don’t have a dog in this fight; this ruling will have absolutely zero impact on me being able to defend myself. I do enjoy a good conversation/debate on legal matters. Nothing is written in stone. I could argue either side of this case and make a compelling argument. That is what is going to happen in the closing arguments and the jury will determine who presented a better case.

What part of that did Zimmerman know at the time he decided to pull a Terry Stop? What was his RAS based on? You can’t accost people on the street without cause. If he’s a gang bangin thug why didn’t he just stomp a mud hole in Zimmerman’s azz as soon as he approached and call it a day. Why did he run? Did he not the get the memo Gansta’s don’t run. Edit: What were the burglary tools?

   Innocent is a pretty self-explanatory term. There is no indication (or even accusation as far as I know) that Martin was committing or suspected of committing any crime. He did not fit the profile of what Zimmerman thought someone walking in that neighborhood should be. That profiling resulted in him getting into a confrontation and being killed. Was be profiled because he was black, looked like a thug, or just because he wasn’t known to Zimmerman; I don’t know. If I was prosecuting this case I would be looking for those that Zimmerman had stopped or called the Police on and see if I could find out. I would want to know who he was talking about and the circumstances when he said “They always get away”. Maybe they have already done that. Is Zimmerman innocent? Nope, an innocent kid is dead because of the reckless circumstances he put in play. He could be acquitted of the charges against him; but that doesn’t mean he is innocent. I am well aware of the fact that we have a legal system and not a justice system. No matter what the verdict is (assuming there is a trial) a bunch of folks are going to complain justice was not served.

  Causing an innocent person to flea in fear is assault; doing that in most states while armed with a deadly weapon is aggravated assault. The prosecution doesn’t need to prove Zimmerman caught Martin and attacked him. They need to make the jury believe Martin was in fear and defending himself against a MWAG chasing him.   You said yourself he was chasing Martin…. Why? We will see what the jury thinks. A plea bargain may still be in the cards.

I don’t know. I can’t think of any lesser charge that he could be convicted of that would convict him of taking the life of an innocent person and not result in at least a few years in prison. I will say this, if he is convicted the Judge will have a heavy burden in sentencing. This is a high profile case with a lot of emotion in the community. Like that or not; that would be a factor.    

“Time served” would require a conviction. I doubt the judge would let him off that easy. If he does prison time he will have to do it in solitary; that may cause a reduced amount of time. But who knows.

IMO that’s the only hope Zimmerman has. If jurors decide that even though he sat the events in motion, and he should have been able to see the recklessness of actions; he was justified in killing Martin while Martin was defending himself. It’s a stretch, but it could happen.

I don’t know Florida law. A member that said he was an expert of Florida law said they don’t have manslaughter. I don’t know what name or legal description they put on it but I don’t think a reckless act that led to the death of another isn’t covered somewhere.

This is just conversation, speculation and opinions from all of us.   What would I have done? Well I wouldn’t have jumped out of my truck and started following/chasing someone that had committed no crime. The Police were on their way; I would have let them handle it. I don’t get in physical confrontations when I’m armed…. It’s reckless.   If I’m in a position of having my head pounded in the pavement its either because I’m a willing participant in a fight where I let my azz overload my mouth, in which case I can’t use a gun to end it and would have to rely on other means. Or, it is an unprovoked attacked in which I could shoot my assailant dead with no remorse or fear of prosecution. Yes, you could die in a fight; although it is highly unlikely. If you are so worried about that don’t do stupid stuff that puts you in that position. That is your responsibility.   Badazzes don’t run. They don’t run from civilians and many don’t even run from the cops. If Martin was the thug badazz many of you are portraying him to be he would have gone heads up against Zimmerman; he would not have run. I think he was probably scared and may have even seen the gun. With fear and adrenalin pumping he reacted by trying to stop the threat.  That’s mere speculation on my part because we can’t ask him; Zimmerman shot him to death.   I don’t think Zimmerman was out for blood. I think he was a cop wannabe that thought he was on patrol in the neighborhood. He committed a reckless act that led to the death of a kid that was committing no crime, but “looked suspicious” to Zimmerman.  That is unfortunate for him; it cost him his life.   We didn’t hear about this because it was a white guy killing a black kid. We heard about this because the cops wanted to arrest Zimmerman and when DA refused; the community reacted. From day 1 the pro Zimmerman side has been saying that the cops said it was justified. It has been shown time and time again that is just not true; the cops wanted an arrest warrant that night. It is the DA’s discretion on whether or not to file charges. It is the communities right to react when they think he made a mistake. That is what happened and the Governor and the Attorney General decided to replace him; that is their discretion.   What do I think is driving this big debate? I think some are afraid that if Zimmerman is found guilty their right to defend them will be compromised. I don’t feel that way; I wouldn’t be in that situation and if I was I would fight and win or take my azz whipping for being stupid; not pull my gun and kill someone.   Is this a racist issue? I don’t know. Would Zimmerman have stopped a white kid walking down the street? He said “They always get away” how many times has he done this? Has any of the people that “got away” from him, or been stopped by him come forward?   The defense team is reduced to blaming the victim using prior acts that had no bearing on this incident; that is a very dangerous course of action to take when you have someone that has never been arrested vs. someone that has been arrested for violence.  Pot and having a gun? You have to be kidding me. How many of you here have smoked pot and own guns? I would be more worried about that becoming an issue in a self-defense trial than some of the other stuff going on. Did he have these defense attorney’s when he lied about his assets and his wife was arrested? Either his attorneys are incompetent or he outright lied to them also. That won’t help him.   Yes, Zimmerman was in the neighborhood watch program. But the cops always stress that you do not engage; you are eyes and ears only. Why? Because of stuff like this.   Zimmerman is hosed no matter what happens. I was appalled when the AG refused to arrest the members of the New Black Panther Party that publically put out a hit on Zimmerman. That is a crime in any state I have been in; maybe it isn’t in Florida. But that is what he has to deal with if he gets off.   Do I think he will be convicted? No, I think it will end in a hung jury. This is going to be a tough case to get a jury to agree on.   These are simply my opinions on a very high profile case. I believe Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty and he deserves a fair trial. I’m sure the trial will be televised and we will get to see the evidence and make our own judgments about the witnesses.    

Since you can’t wait here it is…. It isn’t troubling news; it’s desperation. Trayvon smoked pot and had a .40 cal Smith & Wesson? OMG. I would think a first year law student would know better than to try that. A 17 year old kid that smoked pot and had a gun Vs. a guy whose girlfriend took out an order of protection claiming domestic violence and who attacked a cop in a bar while being arrested. Did Trayvon use his gun to shoot an innocent kid to death walking down the street because he didn’t look like he belonged in the hood? Zimmerman did.

Will this mean a change to the oath?

As I have said many times; we armchair quarterback here, it is what we do. (And it’s what the courts and the lawyers do) I am not going to be on the Zimmerman jury. I have an opinion yes; so do you. Are we getting the whole story? Who knows; that’s what a trial is for. Obviously if you were Zimmerman you wouldn’t want me on your jury. But because I can look at the evidence as presented to us and make a decision I have an “attitude”? That’s ridiculous we all have opinions. The people of state of Florida will decide if what happened was justified. I was simply commenting on the case because it was used as an example for the question in this thread.

That isn’t true according to the 911 tape and Zimmerman’s statement. He was running and Zimmerman was chasing him because he thought he would get away. “Chasing”, “following”… word games.   That isn’t true either, Investigator Chris Serino wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter the night he was interviewed. The DA would not charge him. Certainly the people in the community got upset when the DA wouldn’t charge him; I would have been too. To claim this was spun by the media is ridiculous. It was a DA that did not do his job the way the people in the community thought it should be done. This was anything but a clear cut case of self-defense; this was murder. But, we only know what was in the press. He deserves a fair trial. My point is that if you start an altercation and then end it with a gun because you are losing; you will probably go to trial. You are getting your azz kicked in a bar fight that you are a willing participant in; do you get to pull your gun and kill they guy and then claim “Oh, I work in the ER and I’ve seen people seriously injured in fights.” The jury knows that people get hurt in fights, and just like me most of them will say, “Well then you shouldn’t have been in a fight; you should have walked away.”

It’s going to go like this, the Officers at the scene and the detectives are going to first judge you. They are going to talk to the DA, or he may come to the scene. A DA is going to look at your participation and decide whether or not to charge you.  If he charges you; a Judge or Jury will then decide your fate.   Yes, the Zimmerman case is a good example. Martin was walking down the street minding his own business when Zimmerman lost his mind and started chasing him. Zimmerman had absolutely no reason to chase Martin. He was even told that by the cops on the phone. It is reasonable that Martin was in fear of death or great bodily harm and was justified in doing whatever he felt necessary to protect himself; especially if he saw Zimmerman’s gun. Zimmerman was in a fight he started and ended it by shooting Martin to death. We will have to see if a jury puts their stamp of approval on that.   Zimmerman did something the average intelligent citizen would not do. No matter which way the verdict goes; he is hosed. He will probably pay for his mistake with his freedom or his life.   BTW… I’m not on the Zimmerman jury so my opinion does not matter. I believe he should get a fair trial. My opinions are based only on what we were allowed to hear. There may be something in trial testimony that sets him free. But unless they have a way to make those jurors believe his act of jumping out and chasing that kid was justified; I don’t see them letting him off.      

Hard to say; you can be ticketed for anything. Whether or not it would stand up in court is another story. If your friend slows to the speed limit and drives to a safe place or calls 911 to verify it’s a cop; he isn’t fleeing even if it’s a cop that has jurisdiction. I wouldn’t think the Command Officers of one of these agents would be very happy with him stopping someone for simple speeding.

They probably can’t enforce traffic laws; but if they thought his driving was reckless it sounds like they could stop your friend and call someone that can. Just a WAG though.     http://www.usacops.com/dc/p20536/    

“Gun Show” sales is just the buzz word they are using. What they mean is they want to ban “Private Sales” without a background check. Why wait for a gun show when there are forums or GOC where you can buy every day?   Last I checked the manufacture of methamphetamine or the sale of cocaine in this state was illegal and has some serious penalties. So how have those “tough” laws worked out?   Fix the economy in this country and this state, put people back to work. Get our manufacturing base back and quit buying into the “World Economy” BS. That will do more to reduce crime than any new laws you can come up with.    

I’d be more than happy to have a beer and some good conversation with you someday.

Pistol: 40S&W, 357MAG, .45ACP, 38SPL Rifle: .308, .223, 30-06

I go to the range I go to because it’s unsupervised. On the rifle side every time I have been there with multiple shooters we have worked as a team, made the line safe if someone needs to do something or has a problem. The pistol side is a different story. I’ve had people walk right down and start changing their targets while I was shooting. I stop and wait and wonder what they are thinking. I guess it’s because there are a lot more amateurs with handguns.

Go to gun broker and sign in. Then you can search completed auctions and find the ones that actually sold.

4-3-609.  Exercise of police powers by employees.   a) Those employees of the department of correction as the commissioner shall designate who have been trained in the use of firearms are vested with the powers and authority of law enforcement officers, including the authority to carry weapons, and may exercise such powers and authority while performing special details and assignments in the course of their duties as authorized by the commissioner. These instances may include the search for and apprehension of escapees, transporting inmates, assisting other law enforcement agencies, and other functions while on duty and under the supervision of the department. B  (1) Those employees of the department of correction appointed as special agents or as director of internal affairs and who have successfully completed law enforcement training in accordance with internal standards, including firearms training and successful completion of the Tennessee bureau of investigations basic agent training, shall be fully vested and sworn by the commissioner as full-time law enforcement officers. The department's internal standards shall include, at a minimum, forty (40) hours initial training and eight (8) hours annual in-service training in firearms qualification administered by an instructor with certification from the Tennessee Correction Academy's firearms instructor program or from a police firearms instructor training program conducted or sanctioned by the federal bureau of investigation or the National Rifle Association. These agents and director shall have full authority to investigate and enforce the laws of the state and their mission shall focus on matters relative to the department of correction as well as those matters assisting other local, state, and federal agencies. These agents and director shall be so commissioned to carry weapons in the course of their duties and as is consistent with applicable standards for law enforcement personnel.    (2) Persons employed by the department of correction as internal affairs special agents or as an internal affairs director shall have the full power to administer oaths and take oral and written statements. c The commissioner shall also establish internal procedures concerning appropriate exercise of the powers and authority vested by this section.