DaveTN

  I am as happy as anyone else here to arm chair quarterback, and make wild azz guesses and assumptions based on what we read on the internet. But I do still try to get factual information when I can. Did the Officers ask permission to search? Is there someone claiming their rights was violated? As I said before I doubt many could write a better scenario for exigent circumstances. These Officers were involved in a terrorist attack with citizens killed and everyone in the area of these suspects in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. When the suspect stopped his ongoing attack on the population; he surrendered and was taken into custody.   What do you want done to these Officers?

I don’t think there is any “Myth” to bust. I haven’t seen any of us that don’t support what Zimmerman did say that he disobeyed any Police orders. “We don’t need you to do that.” Is not an order; It’s just letting him know he is doing something stupid.

  I wasn’t there and don’t know what information they were acting on. I don’t know what they said to those people when they talked to them at the door. Pointing rifles at the people as they exited the house is not something I would have done. Have any of those people complained that their rights were violated? I saw conversation at the door before the people came out or any Officers went in. Have we heard from any of those people what that conversation was?   Where do you get that? That certainly was not my intent.   Many pursuits and chases end with citizens calling in where the suspects are. They did find him.

They were looking for a 19 year old that had bombed a bunch of people, executed a Police Officer, detonated bombs during a shootout with Police and ran over his own brother with an SUV; contributing to his death. I don’t know that a better scenario could be written for Exigent Circumstances…. Could it? This suspect was an on-going immediate credible threat to anyone in the area.     The suspect was located and taken into custody alive.   Have any of those people complained that their rights were violated? I’ve not seen or heard any interviews with them; what have they had to say?

      Point taken. I took the time to answer you with what I thought was intelligent responses. I thought it was a discussion, not an argument.

No. I was called for jury duty in a big Federal case in Nashville. I told them I was former cop and had absolutely no chance of being selected for a jury; but they made me go anyway. We were brought in about 25 at a time and questioned in front of the suspects and all their attorneys. Some people were pretty outspoken. After over 100 potential jurors being questioned they had selected 1.

I’m not going to be a willing participant in a road rage incident. I have another weapon besides a gun; a cell phone. If someone threatens me with a gun they are going to jail for felony assault.

 Okay, I took your questions seriously and gave a serious response.  You seem upset that people aren’t taking what you say seriously, but come right out of the gate and it appears to me you are implying that I am foolish or deluded. Do I think the country will become a communist form of government? Absolutely not. But when the government is supporting you they have a lot more say in what you do than with those of us who (at this time) are supporting ourselves.   The ammunition issue has been addressed in many threads; some members have even done the math. This is just an issue Alex Jones got hold of a made a big issue of it for personal gain. This guy makes preposterous allegations with little or no evidence; he’s laughing all the way to the bank.    You keep using the word communism. Do I think our country will become communist? Well, for that to happen our government would have to collapse and the Constitution repealed.  Yes, there things that I see as a problem. Microsoft, Facebook and Google having gag orders placed on them about what and how much information the government has asked for is concerning. When those companies say they are being barred from talking about it; that is a violation of freedom of speech. I assume these issues will end up being decided by the SCOTUS.  I have no problem with any law enforcement agency investing a person, getting a warrant, and obtaining any information they need. But non-specific warrants and gag orders shouldn’t fly.   These kinds of things are issues we will have to take up at the next election.   The economy will determine if our county fails or not. As long as gun control, DHS spending, and foreign policy stays in the headlines; Obama and his crew doesn’t have to field the hard questions on the economy.   You say you served in the military. Do you think the military you served in would attack American citizens, or that the military and law enforcement would stand by and watch while DHS does it?

I have learned to try (although I know it is sometimes very hard) to not shoot back when fired upon with personal attacks; you are not allowed to do that. Some here are more concerned on making assumptions or WAG’s about why you are saying what you are than in discussing the issues. Ignore them, it isn’t worth it. It’s obvious to the readers who is discussing the issues and who is simply trying to make themselves look good through personal attacks; it doesn’t work most of the readers here are smarter than that. If they silence you with their rhetoric, in their minds they have won some kind of standing. They have, but not the way they think. There is no way you can withdraw your participation; it’s impossible.

The problem hinges on the economy. Many Americans wanted a “global economy” (that means they wanted stuff cheap) well they have it, and they have it the cost of American jobs. There is a lot of talk about our founding fathers and what they would do. They weren’t carrying a bunch of dead weight and they wouldn’t sell out their fellow citizens as we have done.   Form all the coalitions you like, but in a republic form of democracy the majority is going to elect people that promise them what is best for them and their way of life. If you live off the government you will elect those people that will do the best for a welfare state. Government handouts and health insurance concerns are what are driving the elections.   Many of those people living off the government would rather be working; but the jobs are not there. Our manufacturing base is weak and is being further crippled by taking in people that aren’t really qualified but can be hired cheap.     The working class is shrinking and the size of the poverty class is rising. The obvious result is inevitable unless we do something to fix it. But it’s tough to fix when Americans won’t agree on what the problem is.   If you start a coalition I would like to part of it; I’m standing at ground level looking the problem in the eye.   As usual it’s all about money; it always is.

Okay I’ll address some of it. But I would respectfully like to ask how old you are and if you have served in the military or traveled the world any? The reason I ask is that I have served in both the Navy and ANG, and am a former Police Officer. So I have personal experience of the originations and the personnel that would be required to fulfill the conspiracy theories you say you believe.   Two reasons Obama could be doing what he is doing. One is jobs. He (and the democrats that follow) want to be able to say he created a lot of jobs. Creating worthless government agencies and filling them with people that can maintain jobs anywhere else will do that. (Think TSA)   Another reason is that many Americans don’t want to use the military to assist law enforcement or use them for border protection in this country. Obama preys on that. It’s time to do away with posse comitias and Obamas claim of a need for a security force is moot.   During this conversation fill us in on what you are afraid of, and what you think the military, law enforcement and American citizens will be doing while this perceived takeover of our country is taking place.   Don’t mistake my comments as support for Obama. I think the man is intentionally doing everything he can to destroy this county; but the people elected him. We have to deal with him until the next election.

It’s a government conspiracy to keep ammo prices high and availability low. Just kidding

 In this market what would concern me more is why would someone with a good price on a gun need to go through all the hassles of shipping and FFL’s? Is it a specialty/collector item?

Sure he did. He was older and so out of shape that he couldn’t get this skinny kid off him, but he was strong enough to gain control of his weapon while Martin was trying to pull it from his holster; and kill him. I mean if you believe in those kinds of fairy tales.

   I know we have been told here by some that stated they were experts on Florida law that Florida doesn’t have “manslaughter” and Zimmerman couldn’t be convicted of anything except what he was charged with. However, I see other articles written by those claiming to be legal professionals that he could be convicted of the lesser offense of manslaughter. I don’t know who any of these people are and I don’t pretend to know anything about Florida law. But I find it hard to believe Florida doesn’t have manslaughter. I am curious to know if the jury will be instructed whether or not they can convict of a lesser offense.

Zimmerman told the dispatcher Martin was running at that he was following him. How much more evidence would you like? Do you think he was walking? Was he out of breath from walking fast? If so what was he doing playing security guard? He’s running. [2:08] 911 dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running? Zimmerman: Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14] 911 dispatcher: OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards? Zimmerman: The back entrance. [It sounds like Zimmerman says under his breath, {edited} at 2:22] 911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24] Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25] 911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

It’s all arm chair quarterbacking, assumptions and wild azz guesses. Are you implying your opinions are something other than that?

I would. But when they start running from me; I’m not getting out and chasing them or engaging an innocent citizen walking down the street while I am armed.   You mean why didn’t Martin have a duty to retreat? He should have run away, he could easily outrun Zimmerman. He had no right to defend himself against a fat guy chasing him with a gun? When this started it was all about “Stand Your Ground” . Now that that doesn’t fit Zimmerman, but does fit Martin; it’s not about that anymore. The only mistake Martin made was that he wasn’t equipped to defend himself against an attacker carrying a gun.

That’s not fair; most of the County Sherriff’s that have made statements support the carry bill. 73 County Sherriff’s voted unanimously not to support weapons bans.  http://www.ilsheriff.org/images/stories/press/press%20release%20on%20gun%20control%20resolution.pdf   One spokesperson can speak for the State Police so of course they have said they will enforce the law. Troopers have discretion in Illinois though.   It’s a good thing that some States Attorneys are stepping up. The bad is that some citizens will have a false sense of security. They can still be arrested and have to spend a lot of money before the case going to the SA’s office. Also, if something would happen to cause a change of the States Attorney before their case is settled they could find themselves being charged.   I hope the downstate voters are paying attention. The Governor can’t stop this bill that the legislature passed. The Governor and the state Attorney General are both intentionally holding up this legislation that has passed; both will be running for Governor in the next election. Want to take any bets on what they say when they are campaigning about whether or not they support the 2nd amendment? Not only do they not respect or support the 2nd amendment; they don’t respect the state legislature that passed this legislation.

2nd States Attorney has stepped up. http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/06/12/2nd-Illinois-county-wont-enforce-ban-on-concealed-carry/UPI-61991371076905/

You want me to believe that Zimmerman couldn’t push Martin off him, but was able to stop Martin from gaining control of his weapon that Martin was going after? I just can’t buy that. But we will see what the evidence shows.

Was Zimmerman open carrying? Could Martin have seen the gun?    

A magazine disconnect is a feature. People should fully understand what it is and why they may or may not want it. Some manufacturers offer it either way.

I think many here are afraid this verdict will somehow compromise their ability to defend themselves; I don’t. Tell me how you think this verdict, either way, would impact you. Do you plan on starting in motion events that lead to a confrontation with an innocent citizen walking down the street?   If someone thinks they are going to patrol their neighborhood and engage people walking down the street, or chase them if they run in fear; then yes, you should pay attention to what is happening here regardless of the verdict. That message has already been sent to those that think they can do that; but it doesn’t impact me and never will.

I don’t fear that my government is going to attack me…. Period (they couldn’t if they wanted to). However I don’t agree with this build up in DHS. Repeal Posse comitatus and we don’t need more DHS. If an incident happened that called for military or law enforcement intervention on a large scale; I would feel better having those that took the military oath involved than those in DHS.