DaveTN

Are you serious? So you think the only reason we are allowed to carry guns is because of the 2nd amendment? If that is so, why don’t all citizens of the state get to carry, or citizens of other states? I have been fighting this fight for over 40 years. I have even been jailed over it. So I am absolutely sure that just because I have a bought a privilege from the state that in no way shape or form equals a right. As I’ve said many times before I believe I have a right to carry, but I don’t hang that right on a dog like the 2nd amendment. The state does not recognize the 2nd amendment, most other states do not either and the Feds clearly do not. So if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling to claim 2nd amendment rights that you clearly do not have; go for it. The 2nd amendment implies power that Federal government clearly does not have the power to enforce. States’ Rights dictate gun laws and they have since the civil war. You don’t think our legislators deserve the acknowledgement that it is because of them you can carry? They are also the only ones that can acknowledge Constitutional Carry and I think it’s time we find out where they stand.   If it’s easy for you to discount my stand by thinking I’m a business owner or that I believe property rights trump 2nd amendment; neither is true. I’m fighting for our state to acknowledge the 2nd amendment as a right for all citizens. You keep making noise about rights. You appear to think that card you bought gives you some special rights; you are wrong. And yes, I have an HCP it appears that someone thinks if you are against a thug government you don’t have an HCP. I’ll show it to anyone. I just think it makes me special. I remember the times when there has been discussion on here about cops being a special group and about how they shouldn’t have any special privileges when they are off duty. Yet some think HCP holders get to trump the property rights of citizens. I’m not okay with the government violating someone’s property rights over carrying a gun.” If you pay us its okay, if you don’t carrying is a criminal act. We don’t want you carrying on our property; we don’t think you are qualified. However, we think we will make your employer knuckle under and allow you to have a gun on his property.” How can anyone think that’s okay? So keep taking those baby steps; I’m going for the win. You may be right though about it being a waste of time. I don’t even know why I’ve spent the time to discuss this parking lot issue. It’s probably impacted zero people; while a lot of people have been arrested for no crime other than having a gun in their car. If it’s a right it’s a right for all the people. You can’t buy rights.   Then don't do it.   A business can't force you to disarm.

Any bets on how that ends?

Open carry in this state is illegal. Concealed carry in this state is illegal An HCP is a valid defense to those charges. Now spin that any way you want but you won’t get anything that impedes a cop from stopping you and asking to see your permit.

Carry is illegal in the entire state.

I don’t know if you were talking about me or not but I have an HCP; we are both in Murfreesboro I would be happy to show it to you. I have no hostility towards the HCP system; quite the contrary I have stated many times we have reasonable carry laws here and I appreciate what our legislators do. But carry is still not a right. I would like to see it acknowledged as a right; I think we are at that point. No one is suggesting that HCP’s be done away with (that I see). I doubt the state will pass up free money and those that want to be allowed to carry in other states would continue to pay for the privilege; I know I would. One is a right that is not for sale, the other is a privilege that you buy from the state; one really has nothing to do with the other.

Nonsense, what other freedoms as a property owner would you like to give up unless you can articulate or show a valid reason for to the government?   You have got to be kidding. This is only about rights. If the state recognized the 2nd amendment as an individual right for every citizen; this would be much different. But they don’t; having a loaded gun in your car is a crime. But they want to force it on property owners that they must accept those that have bought the privilege from the state. That’s BS.

I agree with you if all citizens of the state have a right to have the tools to make their travels safe. But because I paid for a privilege the state gets to tell the owner of my company he must allow me to have a gun in my car on his parking lot? Does that sound right to you when you read it out loud?

At what companies are these warrantless vehicles searches being done? Why do vehicle searches keep coming up in these discussions?

Being brutally honest is okay; if it the truth. You keep talking about rights you don’t have. HCP is in no way shape or form a right. I have never seen anyone try to claim it is a right. So why would you think that the state can post a sign on the door of their buildings that doesn’t allow you to carry into their business; but you think it’s okay that they can dictate to a private business what they must allow on their private parking lot? It is beyond me how anyone can see even the smallest justification for it. The state sold you that permit and issued it saying you have met the minimum requirements to carry a gun in this state. However, they don’t think you are qualified to carry on their property. But then they turn around and want to legislate that although they don’t think you are qualified to carry on their property; they think you should be able to have a gun on a private owner’s parking lot. It’s not okay!! It a blatant doubles standard, and a thug government, and has no business being law in a free state. And I refused to agree with it just because someone professes it to be progun.   Because it’s not a RIGHT!! Some of us want to make it a right, but you want to keep posting about baby steps, and something to work towards. This may all be new to you and you are okay with a lifetime agenda. I’ll be 60 this year and have been fighting this all my life. I’m tired of waiting and there is no reason to wait. The time is now.

You mean like passing a law that is supposed to protect HCP holders that want their carry guns kept in their cars while at work; but doesn’t keep them from being fired? Or maybe making enough noise about signs that it went from having the language on the sign to a picture of a gun with a line through it is good enough. Because the only thing those kinds of “small victories” will accumulate into is more gun control. Small victories are nothing more than something the politicians can claim they are pro-gun about while actually doing nothing.   The NRA and the TFA want you to get behind Constitutional Carry. The rumors are legislation may be proposed soon. Only four states hold this prestigious position. They did it and I see no reason why Tennessee could not be number five. As far as the Federal laws go we would be on much better footing to reject those laws if we recognized the 2nd amendment as an individual right of all citizens. It’s time.

http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display/20132014/HB/732 GA is taking it one step farther than most states. If that bill passes it would make it a crime for a Federal Firearms Dealer to follow Federal law on weapons and ammo made within the state. That’s a pretty easy fix for the Feds. Good luck buying guns if you don’t have any FFL’s and can only buy what is made within the state from manufacturers that don’t care if they keep their FFL. Telling federally licensed FFL’s they can’t comply with Federal law won’t end well for any of us. I wonder how fast Glock will be able to move their facility.

I really don’t have one. I would like to keep it under $50 if I could; it’s just for an everyday carry knife. I could go higher if there was something spectacular that caught my eye. I’ve never been a knife person; I’ve always carried a gun. But as I get older I see why old guys carry knives… to open up stuff you can just rip open with your teeth anymore. I could shoot most of those packages open but then I would need hearing aids. Some good suggestions have been posted... thanks.

Well of course it’s more difficult. We already have maximized our HCP privilege. When we are reduced down to supporting the actions of a thug government on an issue that would be taken care of with the Constitutional Carry legislation; things have went too far. Rights? HCP is not a right. And you will still have an HCP. If you want to carry in other states; the state isn’t going to pass up free money. But on the other hand a poor person or an abused wife running from someone committing violence against her, that isn’t as blessed as we are to be able to buy our privileges; will still be able to defend their life.

I wasn’t addressing pro-carry, you before you had your permit or your sister now, if she is carrying without a permit she is a criminal. I specifically said HCP. I watched the TFA’s progressive nature for years. I get it; and it’s time for a change. And this isn’t an NRA issue anyway; it’s a Tennessee issue. But I’m sick of organizations that want you to send them money, stuff your mail boxes with garbage and then do nothing. Heck with that “baby steps” non-sense we have pretty good gun laws in this state and the next obvious step is Constitutional Carry. If they were my employees I would tell them “You have lost focus and situational awareness. Now regroup and get back in there and do your job”. I don’t know why you would post that childish .gif mocking me. Am I saying something that you don’t agree with? If it’s the “baby Steps” issue then yes, we are in disagreement. The “Baby Steps” time has passed; that was good when we were getting the bad court rulings. We are getting the good court rulings now and it’s time for “Pit Bull” mode; strike while the iron is hot.

I apologize if you think I was saying do nothing. I have been saying for months now is the time to make Tennessee the next state in a very short list of Constitutional Carry states. The last time I suggested it here I was told by a member that claims to be in the know that it would go no where. I don’t know that and it is my understanding that Constitutional carry is about to be proposed… is that right or wrong? You of all people should know. If nothing else it will cut to the chase on who gets to stand up there and say they support gun rights and who doesn’t. We get more people riled up over something like getting arrested for walking past a sign or losing their job over having a gun in their car at work than stuff that can really happen. Neither of those things is likely to happen or has happened. In comparison I wonder how many people have been arrested on weapons charges because they didn’t have the disposable income to pay for the privilege, or they didn’t have the time to get an HCP after being threatened in a real life situation and decided to carry. (Abused women)

They are $605 at Buds and in stock. The VLS is $800 It has a 26" heavy barrel, laminated stock and a better finish.

I do. It’s taking time away from the real issues of fighting gun control and putting the cart before the horse. Get the right to carry and then force it on business as a protected right. But the state doesn’t get to say guns are illegal except to those that pay a privilege tax, and then drive it down the throats of business owners. That’s wrong at face value. Of course they may try whatever they like with the laws; after all they are politicians. I didn’t think the state had any business legislating smoking in private businesses but they did it and a majority of the people were more than happy to see the government force that on business owners. And the bars that went out of business? Well they were just casualties of the government helping us. Some of the same people here that support this will be whining in another thread about how heavy handed the government is and how we need to vote them all out of office.   We are 7% of the state population; hardly the norm.

Not on the part of the crow.

I’m from the government and I’m here to help you. Most of the people I know and work with don’t have HCP’s; they are just normal citizens. Maybe when our legislators and the TFA get done playing games with this parking lot silliness they can spend some time on some real pro-gun legislation that would help those people carry instead of trying to make it appear they are doing something.

JayC, You are dreaming if you think the Feds need or want the cooperation of local law enforcement should this go down and they want to make an example out of a few people. No one in their right mind will risk time in the Federal pen. Same thing happened with the TFFA, we all (FFL holders) got letters from the BATF that they did not recognize the act and would take action if we violated Federal law. No one I know of has challenged this law as yet. Why? Because the Feds can tell the state to go pound sand and in the meantime you are on your way to Federal prison. Help from the state? Give me a break, they can’t help. However, it doesn’t appear that we will need to find out. But how about this. Since you are so sure you can win these cases and sue everyone into submission, will you volunteer to be our local test case if Federal laws are passed?

They can pass all the laws they want. But as you can see they can’t enforce them. You can’t be criminally charged for carrying past a sign on a parking lot; but you can be fired. What about my post #38? Are you and the state going to decide what’s safe for a business?

I wonder if anyone really buys those or if he just sets them out hoping? Maybe he didn't get the memo those days have passed?

I worked an off duty job for a company that had three separate facilities. At all three facilities you had to pass a guard shack and were subject to search to enter the property. At two of the facilities you could take firearms on and off the property in your vehicle, at the third you could not. The reason was that they had very large tanks of flammable liquid on the property. Obviously the company wasn’t anti-gun, any of you think the state should have been able to force them to allow guns on that third property when it was clearly a safety issue? What if the state recognizes the 2nd amendment and we get Constitutional carry? Would businesses like that have to allow guns in cars if they believe it is a safety issue?

My quarrel is with neither; it’s with the state. If you have a right to keep and bear arms under the 2nd amendment the state would have to recognize that; they don’t. As I posted above there are places than ban you having a laundry list of items in your car when you go onto their property, not just guns. You saying they can’t do that?

Just like the 55MPH limit states will comply or their federal funding will be cut. We need a group of states to reject Obama Care; that could work. I doubt you will see much on gun laws unless the Feds pass something. A state can say they refuse to recognize the NFA; but that won’t help you if you are in Federal custody. Tennessee passed the TFFA and it hasn’t been tried.