TGO David

I've asked myself that same question. I wonder if it's on the FFL transfer form.

Welcome. I had a Glock 23. One of the few handguns that I truly miss owning. Since they still make them, I could always end up with another at some point.

Did you ask them why? And I really don't understand how they can charge you tax on a service.

Wish I had known that last night, because I would have picked your brain heavily. This is something I really want to get into.

Thanks to all of you who came out tonight. It was good to see Eddie (Molonlabetn) and Len again, and especially nice to finally meet Jackdog and TNRoadrunner. Very glad to be able to put faces with screen-names. Also, it was a sincere pleasure to finally meet Mr. John Harris of the TFA and Mr. Buford Tune of APPS. Both are very intelligent, very motivated and very motivational speakers and it's comforting to know that they are on our side and working to further the cause of legal handgun carry in Tennessee. I'd hate to think of how bad it would be for us if they were on the other side. I'll try to compose my thoughts and post more tomorrow about what I thought of tonight's TFA Nashville Chapter resurrection meeting. There was a lot said that I want to have time to digest and decompress a little. In the meantime I hope the rest of you who attended tonight will share your thoughts and opinions as well.

Very glad to have you here with us. Please come back often!

If you leave a man in power too long he quits looking out for the interest of his constituency and starts looking out for his own best interests. Naifeh's ouster from State government is long overdue.

An AK has been on my "short list" of things to buy before the next ban for a while now. Of course we all hope there won't be a next ban, but I'm too much of a realist to think that it won't happen if the Gov't wants it to happen. What are the good brands of AKs to buy?

I received the following via email... From Dr. Ignatius Piazza Founder and Director http://www.frontsight.com 1.800.987.7719 Please Forward to Your Local Newspapers, Radio Stations, and Television News Stations Subject: Gun School For Teachers Las Vegas, Nevada: In the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, Front Sight Firearms Training Institute, which arguably is the world leader in providing intensified courses in the defensive use of firearms for private citizens, feels they have the answer to stopping further attacks on school children. Front Sight is offering free firearms training to any school administrator, teacher, or full time staff member designated as school Safety Monitors. Front Sight will accept for training up to three staff members from each school, college or university. Applicants must submit a letter requesting training on school letterhead signed by the top school district official and designating the applicant as the school's Safety Monitor. Guns and Teachers Front Sight's Founder and Director, Dr. Ignatius Piazza understands that his offer may offend some school administrators and parents who do not see arming and training selected school staff members as a positive solution to violent attacks. However, he is quick to point out that historically, his approach has worked while gun control has actually increased violent crime by shifting the balance of power to favor the criminals and lunatics. "My offer is not a new idea," says Piazza. "In the early 70's, Israel was faced with much greater problems of armed terrorist attacks on schools. The cry for more gun control was heard then too, but Israel very carefully analyzed all possible options before adopting the proactive position of arming and training their teachers. School shootings stopped and terrorists looked for easier targets." He maintains that gun control never has and never will stop criminals and madmen from carrying out acts of gun violence. "In our country, every time a misguided individual on psychiatric drugs goes on a killing spree, anti-self defense legislators, watch the polls and exploit the dead victims in order to fool the public into accepting more gun control. It is time our country finds some resolve and the will to tackle the real problem- which is rooting out the actual influences in the lives of our youth that predispose them to commit atrocities such as those we saw at Virginia Tech. The problem is not guns. Guns don't cause these incidents to occur anymore than cameras cause child pornography or automobiles cause traffic fatalities. Israel had the right answer. Society is safer when we train and arm our law abiding citizens. As the defensive training leader in the USA, Front Sight is willing and able to set the example for the rest of the country to follow." Armed Teachers Dave Clark, who recently retired after teaching for the last 25 years at Junction Junior High School in Livermore, California agrees with Front Sight's philosophy. In fact, Mr. Clark has previously attended a Four Day Defensive Handgun course at Front Sight at his own expense and found the course to be exactly what is needed to train fellow teachers to stop an attack similar to Columbine school and Virginia Tech. "Front Sight provides safe and responsible training to a level that exceeds law enforcement standards." Says Mr. Clark. "Among the many lessons taught, I learned universally accepted rules in justifiable use of deadly force. More importantly, I learned when not to shoot and how to be more mentally prepared to see a lethal confrontation coming before it happens in order to avoid it. The firearms training is second to none and clearly gives the graduates the skill needed to save the lives of those in their charge if ever attacked. If my school district chose to adopt a policy of sending selected teachers to Front Sight for concealed handgun training, I would wholeheartedly support it and volunteer as a Safety Monitor. There is no reason for our children to continue to be victimized when free, professional training is available to stop school attacks." Guns in Schools There is evidence that a gun in the hand of a teacher will stop an armed attacker. The vice-principal of a school in Pearl, Mississippi used his handgun to stop and detain an armed killer until the police arrived. Dr. Piazza adds, "It seems obvious that armed and trained staff members inside the school are in a better position to identify the attackers and do something immediately to resolve the situation. It is much harder for police, who arrive on the scene too late to stop the killing." Not so convinced is Sharon Piazza, Dr. Piazza's aunt who recently retired after 30 years as an elementary teacher and school administrator for Oak Grove School District in San Jose, California. "The thought of teachers carrying guns saddens me greatly. I would feel that we had failed as a society and missed the core reason why violence is occurring in our youth. It is not guns, but something much deeper that is the common thread in all these tragedies. If we must arm individuals in the school setting to protect our children, I definitely believe they need to be trained in when and how to use the weapon. However, I am definitely not one who would want to be armed and would not want to teach in that setting." Lawmakers With Blood on Their Hands Another obstacle to Front Sight's offer to train and arm teachers is the current law in many states prohibiting the possession of firearms on school grounds even when the possessor is qualified and has a concealed weapons license. Dr. Piazza quickly points out that those laws did not prevent or stop the gun violence at numerous schools over the last tens years. He states, "The brazen attacks in school after school during the last decade indicate criminals have concluded that 'Gun-Free-School-Zone' actually means 'Government Certified, Helpless and Unarmed Victim Zone.' Case in Point: House Bill 1572 would have given college students and employees the right to carry a concealed handgun on campus but this legislation was killed in subcommittee by the General Assembly. Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy at the time to hear the bill had died. Hincker stated, "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this helps parents, students, faculty and visitors to feel safe on our campus." Mr. Hincker now has rotten egg on his face and the General Assembly has blood on their hands. School administrators, law enforcement agencies, and legislators can change laws and policies if they truly want to stop these attacks. Senator Bob Beers of Nevada had the right answer by introducing Senate Bill 286 which authorized teachers who hold permits to carry concealed firearms and who have completed a specific program of firearms training to carry concealed on schools grounds. Nevada lawmakers shot down Senator Beers' prophetic legislation just one week before the Virginia Tech Massacre. The voices of Dr. Ignatius Piazza and Senator Bob Beers can now be heard through the halls of every school in America as they scream, "How many more of our children must be gunned down before this country will wake up and pass sensible laws that protect our children by placing concealed guns in the hands of the good guys? No more free-fire-zones for deranged criminals!" Schools Can't Afford to Pass on No Cost Security Most school districts cannot afford to have even one full time police officer in every school, but they can easily afford to train three or more of their selected staff members to a higher level of firearms training than offered in police academies because Front Sight will provide the training at no cost." Retired law enforcement firearms instructor, Mike Waidelich from Bakersfield, California strongly supports the Front Sight concept of arming and training teachers. "Nearly every tragedy on or off school grounds in the entire 30 years of my law enforcement career could have been prevented or the damage done considerably limited, by the presence of an armed and trained individual." Concealed Guns The training provided in Front Sight's basic training classes easily exceeds the training provided in most police basic training academies. Front Sight proves it on their nationally televised reality series Front Sight Challenge shown every week on VERSUS Network. Seasoned law enforcement officers from around the country go head-to-head in tests of marksmanship, speed and tactics against private citizens-- including teachers-- who have not received any training other than Front Sight's firearms courses. Remarkably, the Front Sight trained, private citizens are currently leading the series 8 : 5. Piazza adds, "Teachers will be trained to carry a concealed weapon, so potential attackers will not know which teachers are armed and which are not. In states that have adopted concealed weapon laws for private citizens, violent crime has dropped. School attacks will drop as well once it is known that any of the teachers and staff members on school grounds have the ability and training to stop a violent attack immediately." Piazza explains that scientific research also supports Front Sight's stance on concealed weapon training. He references researcher, John Lott, Jr. from the University of Chicago School of Law who published Crime, Deterrence and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns in July 1996. "Mr. Lott's research of cross-sectional time-series data from all 3054 U.S. counties from 1977 to 1992 found that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crime and appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed handgun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly." Gun Control Increases Violent Crime Piazza asks, "How many times must we experience another Littleton, Colorado or Virginia Tech before we wake up, study the research and adopt policies which actually reduce crime and begin saving our children instead of leaving them helpless victims when the next psych drug user snaps?" Gun control typically increases violent crime yet some politicians continue to tout disarming law abiding citizens as a solution. Front Sight has a better solution. School districts interested in taking advantage of Front Sight's commitment to help protect our children should call us at 1.800.987.7719 or e-mail Front Sight at info@frontsight.com. More information about Front Sight training is available at http://www.frontsight.com."

I would love to see this part of the TN Gun Owners community take off. One of the ways that I think we can achieve this is by posting reports from matches, whether local or regional. If any of you participate or attend a match and would like to post the results or any pictures please do so. In fact, I'd go so far as to make folks official "reporters" for TGO if they would like the task of keeping on top of matches and posting this stuff for us. That and a buck-fitty would get you a cup of coffee somewhere I'm sure!

It looks like I will be there. I came into work a bit late this morning so I could work til 6pm and head over to this meeting. Beats making two 60 mile round trips.

Your neighbor doesn't need that TV anyway.

If there ever was a time to contact your representatives and let them know that you want a bill passed... this is it. Get moving, people!!!

That's a high price for an XD9. You can find them a lot cheaper!

Nice! I'm on the edge of getting involved in competitive shooting for the heck of it. I'm sure my times will completely suck, but that's ok... the only direction I can go from there is UP.

PS: I am going to go back through this thread and delete some garbage posts that don't need to litter the forum. It's not censorship, it's damage control.

Well now... see what I get for sleeping in late? Guys, as Marswolf has said, there is an understanding between me and Shay and the other instructors at Tactical Response that it is absolutely OK for them to post about training in this Training forum. The only communication that I have ever had with Tactical Response was a month or two ago when I asked them to please be considerate of others and not beat folks over the head with "Training! Training! Training!" at every turn. A few of our members had asked me to talk to them about it, so I did. Not because I think it's a bad idea to get training, to encourage others to get training, but because a few members felt like they couldn't discuss simple recreational shooting or procurement of new handguns without being chastised for not spending an equal amount of money on training. As I told the folks at Tactical Response, not everyone is into training and not everyone owns a firearm for the same reason. We should all just be happy that they do own a firearm, yadda yadda. That said... this forum is the perfect place for Tactical Response instructors and students to discuss TRAINING. That's what it's here for. We're lucky to live in a country where civilians can avail themselves of such schools, whether it be Tactical Response, Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, etc. I'm sorry to see this thread turn into what it has and hope that no one will be run off as a result of it.

I agree completely. If I'm able to attend the TFA meeting tomorrow night here in Nashville, I hope to speak to John Harris about this current state of affairs re: restaurant carry.

The only problem that I have with that is, statistically speaking, you're probably a lot more likely to get caught than you are to get blown away by someone at a restaurant. That's what makes this such a dangerous double edged sword.

Yes, a separate database for ranges is something that I originally intended to offer. It would be fairly identical in form and function to the posted locations database. I've spoken with the friend who was originally going to do this for us and he said he is going to try to get to it this weekend. I can only hope.

It's about time you made it over here!

You're right... there is a tremendous risk in carrying in certain prohibited locations. All the more reason to work through the proper channels to correct stupid, narrow-sighted legislation like that which prohibits responsible, legal carry in restaurants that serve alcohol so long as you are not partaking.

Posted: April 18, 2007 1:00 a.m. Eastern The grave danger of 'gun-free zones' By Charl van Wyk The murder of innocent victims is a disgrace, and our condolences go out to those who have lost loved ones in the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech. More than one year before Monday's unprecedented shooting rampage at Virginia Tech, the state's General Assembly quashed a bill that would have given qualified college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus. Could one legally armed citizen have made a difference at this tragic event? We also need to ask the question: Do laws prohibiting firearms in certain places really prevent homicidal tragedies? There is a striking paradox associated with mass murders. They are far more likely to occur in areas that have been designated as gun-free zones. Worldwide, office buildings, hospitals, convenience stores, TV studios, chain restaurants and day-care centers have all been targets of homicidal maniacs. Mass murders have taken place in such places after they have been declared gun-free zones. In 1999, John Lott and William Landes published a U.S. study of multiple shooting incidents. They showed that mass shootings occur less often in areas where responsible citizens may carry weapons. Do mass shootings ever occur in police stations, shooting ranges or at gun shows? Mass murderers select soft targets for their acts of violence. Expecting a suicidal individual to honor a law prohibiting firearms is sheer utopian fantasy. In Europe, 16 people were killed in a public school shooting in Germany in April 2002. Another two public shootings were the killing of 14 regional legislators in Zug, a Swiss Canton (September 2001) and the massacre of eight city council members in a Paris suburb in March 2002. According to John R. Lott Jr., all three of these European killing sprees had one thing in common: They took place in gun-free zones. Firearms surely make it easier to kill people, but firearms also make it easier for people to defend themselves. Declaring gun-free zones risks leaving potential victims defenseless. In the U.S., thugs using firearms at elementary or secondary schools between 1997 and 2002 killed 32 students. The total includes gang fights, robberies, accidents and the so-called "school shootings." All these attacks took place in gun-free zones. In Israel, however, teachers and parents serving as school aids are armed at all times on school grounds with semi-automatic weapons. Since this policy was adopted in the 1970s, attacks by gunmen at schools in Israel have ceased. Government officials must be aware that if they create a gun-free zone, they are liable for any harm it causes. Why would those in authority rather see law-abiding, disarmed citizens die than risk armed citizens harming a criminal? With lives lost in Germany and the United States in schools that are gun-free zones, and no attacks by armed gunmen in Israel since teachers and parents serving as school aids have been armed, why would we want any area declared a gun-free zone? History and common sense prove that gun-free zones are dangerous. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55246

I'll be renewing mine in person this year. It's almost as fun as visiting the health department or the Emergency Room on a Friday night. Lots of interesting people, many of whom don't speak English, getting their driver's licenses.

How old are they? Old enough to learn how to shoot?