TGO David

Wouldn’t you feel safer with a gun? British attitudes are supercilious and misguided By: Richard Munday Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2409817.ece Despite the recent spate of shootings on our streets, we pride ourselves on our strict gun laws. Every time an American gunman goes on a killing spree, we shake our heads in righteous disbelief at our poor benighted colonial cousins. Why is it, even after the Virginia Tech massacre, that Americans still resist calls for more gun controls? The short answer is that “gun controls” do not work: they are indeed generally perverse in their effects. Virginia Tech, where 32 students were shot in April, had a strict gun ban policy and only last year successfully resisted a legal challenge that would have allowed the carrying of licensed defensive weapons on campus. It is with a measure of bitter irony that we recall Thomas Jefferson, founder of the University of Virginia, recording the words of Cesare Beccaria: “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” One might contrast the Virginia Tech massacre with the assault on Virginia’s Appalachian Law School in 2002, where three lives were lost before a student fetched a pistol from his car and apprehended the gunman. Virginia Tech reinforced the lesson that gun controls are obeyed only by the law-abiding. New York has “banned” pistols since 1911, and its fellow murder capitals, Washington DC and Chicago, have similar bans. One can draw a map of the US, showing the inverse relationship of the strictness of its gun laws, and levels of violence: all the way down to Vermont, with no gun laws at all, and the lowest level of armed violence (one thirteenth that of Britain). America’s disenchantment with “gun control” is based on experience: whereas in the 1960s and 1970s armed crime rose in the face of more restrictive gun laws (in much of the US, it was illegal to possess a firearm away from the home or workplace), over the past 20 years all violent crime has dropped dramatically, in lockstep with the spread of laws allowing the carrying of concealed weapons by law-abiding citizens. Florida set this trend in 1987, and within five years the states that had followed its example showed an 8 per cent reduction in murders, 7 per cent reduction in aggravated assaults, and 5 per cent reduction in rapes. Today 40 states have such laws, and by 2004 the US Bureau of Justice reported that “firearms-related crime has plummeted”. In Britain, however, the image of violent America remains unassailably entrenched. Never mind the findings of the International Crime Victims Survey (published by the Home Office in 2003), indicating that we now suffer three times the level of violent crime committed in the United States; never mind the doubling of handgun crime in Britain over the past decade, since we banned pistols outright and confiscated all the legal ones. We are so self-congratulatory about our officially disarmed society, and so dismissive of colonial rednecks, that we have forgotten that within living memory British citizens could buy any gun – rifle, pistol, or machinegun – without any licence. When Dr Watson walked the streets of London with a revolver in his pocket, he was a perfectly ordinary Victorian or Edwardian. Charlotte Brontë recalled that her curate father fastened his watch and pocketed his pistol every morning when he got dressed; Beatrix Potter remarked on a Yorkshire country hotel where only one of the eight or nine guests was not carrying a revolver; in 1909, policemen in Tottenham borrowed at least four pistols from passers-by (and were joined by other armed citizens) when they set off in pursuit of two anarchists unwise enough to attempt an armed robbery. We now are shocked that so many ordinary people should have been carrying guns in the street; the Edwardians were shocked rather by the idea of an armed robbery. If armed crime in London in the years before the First World War amounted to less than 2 per cent of that we suffer today, it was not simply because society then was more stable. Edwardian Britain was rocked by a series of massive strikes in which lives were lost and troops deployed, and suffragette incendiaries, anarchist bombers, Fenians, and the spectre of a revolutionary general strike made Britain then arguably a much more turbulent place than it is today. In that unstable society the impact of the widespread carrying of arms was not inflammatory, it was deterrent of violence. As late as 1951, self-defence was the justification of three quarters of all applications for pistol licences. And in the years 1946-51 armed robbery, the most significant measure of gun crime, ran at less than two dozen incidents a year in London; today, in our disarmed society, we suffer as many every week. Gun controls disarm only the law-abiding, and leave predators with a freer hand. Nearly two and a half million people now fall victim to crimes of violence in Britain every year, more than four every minute: crimes that may devastate lives. It is perhaps a privilege of those who have never had to confront violence to disparage the power to resist.

Not many 1911s are chambered in .40SW except for those popular among USPSA Open competitors, though, and the .40SW seems to be the cartridge that is most prolific among cases of Glock failures. Of those competitors who do use the .40SW in a 1911 platform, I'd wager that many of them are very experienced reloaders or use rounds provided to them by very experienced reloaders. Suffice it to say, then, that the kaboom problem does appear to be restricted mainly to those Glocks that are chambered to shoot rounds with high case pressures.

Have the rest of you seen this idiocy yet? California legislators have proposed a law that will require components inside of new handguns that will stamp each fired casing with the handgun's serial number. This will be the death of reloading if it happens. Spent shell casings would be imprinted By James P. Sweeney COPLEY NEWS SERVICE September 11, 2007 SACRAMENTO – The Assembly sent the governor a bill yesterday requiring that the next generation of semiautomatic handguns stamp identifying serial numbers on spent shell casings. The legislation that would establish the first law of its kind in the nation could have a lasting impact on the war on crime, according to backers. But the limited application of the bill does not figure to be felt for several years. The bill covers only new models or brands of semiautomatic handguns approved for sale in the state after Jan. 1, 2010. That excludes nearly 1,300 different semiautomatics already sold in the state. Revolvers, which do not discharge shell casings, also are not covered. Nonetheless, supporters said tagging microscopic codes on ammunition fired from the guns of choice for gang members and violent criminals could prove invaluable to law enforcement. “Chiefs of police from Stockton to San Diego, from Fresno to National City, 65 of them standing together in support of this bill because they see the potential to solve gun crime,” said Assemblyman Mike Feuer, a Los Angeles Democrat who carried the measure, AB 1471. Feuer said the bill is being watched across the country, all the way to Washington, D.C., where Congress is weighing a similar proposal. But in a passionate debate between gun-control Democrats and gun-rights Republicans, critics dismissed the technology as unreliable, expensive and easily thwarted. They warned that it would drive up the price of guns and drive manufacturers out of the state. “There is nothing like this is any other state, and no other state is seriously considering this because they know it doesn't work,” said Lawrence Keane, general counsel of the National Shooting Sports Council, an industry trade association. The Assembly approved the bill on a 43-29 vote that fell largely along party lines. The Senate narrowly passed the bill last week. All involved are now closely watching for a signal from Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has taken no position on the bill. Gun-control backers have been pushing the concept, known as microstamping, for several years as an alternative to ballistic imaging, a much more complex system that relies on individual markings on bullets. Feuer attempted to shift the debate away from the traditional gun-control rhetoric, insisting his bill would not restrict anyone's access or ability to use firearms. “This is not a gun-control measure,” he said. “This is a public-safety measure.” The legislation would require new semiautomatics to be manufactured with firing pins or some other internal part etched with an individual serial number. Feuer said gun makers have said the identifying parts can be added for as little as $1 per gun. But Keane said it would require an overhaul of the manufacturing process and add up to $200 per gun. After all that, the internal code could be easily sanded off. Feuer staged a demonstration of the technology last month for journalists and some of Los Angeles' ranking law enforcement officials. The test used a microstamped weapon that had been fired more than 2,600 times. “Everyone there could determine which gun fired the bullets,” Feuer said. More than 60 percent of homicides in California are committed with handguns and about 70 percent of the handguns sold in the state are semiautomatics, according to a legislative analysis of the bill. Moreover, Feuer said, his measure could help deal with so-called “straw purchasers,” those who buy guns legally for those who cannot. Opponents portrayed the legislation as another assault on the Second Amendment and the right to bear arms. Those who live a life of crime typically do not buy weapons legally and certainly wouldn't be foolish enough to use guns with coded firing pins, they said. “There are so many ways to game this technology, that's the difficulty,” said Assemblyman Rick Keene, R-Chico. “This is not ready for prime time.” To those that invoked the Second Amendment, Assemblyman Sandré Swanson offered up another passage from the Constitution. “This is about life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” said Swanson, a Democrat who represents Oakland, where 148 people were killed last year and 93 so far this year. As the bill moved through both houses, the legislation was amended to address criticism that it relied on patented technology available only from a single source. That supplier, NanoMark Technologies, has agreed to provide the technology for free to California and other states. The measure also requires the attorney general to verify that the technology is made available to more than one manufacturer, Feuer said.

Kids Told To Remove Tiny Rifles From Graduation Caps POSTED: 9:20 am PDT September 12, 2007 UPDATED: 9:38 am PDT September 12, 2007 <script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.knbc.com/js/13260191/script.js"></script><!--startindex-->RANCHO PALOS VERDES, Calif. -- Cornerstone Elementary School will review its zero-tolerance policy toward guns on campus this fall after fifth-graders were told to remove weapons from the hands of toy soldiers that festooned their graduation caps. "We don't want to repeat mistakes or offend people," Walker Williams, superintendent of the Palos Verdes Peninsula Unified School District, told the Daily Breeze."We didn't intend to offend." The school principal, Denis Leonard, did not want to talk to the newspaper. Glen Nakata, the father of fifth-grader Austin, met with Williams and district officials in July to discuss the policy. "I'm glad they're taking these steps," he told the Daily Breeze. A lawyer for the National Rifle Association, Chuck Michel of Long Beach, suggested district officials had taken the policy to a ludicrous extreme. "This school district recognizes that they don't have any reason for doing this," he told the Daily Breeze. About 10 years ago, a teacher at Cornerstone started what is now a tradition: having youngsters decorate their graduation mortar boards to illustrate what they might do in the future. Source: http://www.knbc.com/news/14098267/detail.html

Editorial: The war on deadly mascots Return the guns to Parry McCluer High School's pirate. <!--EndNoIndex--><!--BeginNoIndex--> <!--EndNoIndex-->Buena Vista's Parry McCluer High School has a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to guns on campus. That sensible policy became ludicrous when school officials disarmed their mascot, a flintlock-wielding pirate lost his weapons in a new logo. Principal Haywood Hand saw conflict between the gun ban and the a mascot that featured pistols. "It is hypocritical to promote a mascot with a gun in each hand," he said. So he ordered the logo redrawn without guns. No guns on campus -- smart. No guns in a cartoon caricature -- silly. Parry McCluer students did not look at their beloved pirate and think to themselves, "Gee, if it's OK for a buccaneer dressed in blue to dance around with antique guns, it must be OK for me. The school sure is sending me mixed messages." High school students are smarter than that. They can discern between a cartoon that looks like Yosemite Sam and reality. Such smothering protection is just as detrimental to maturing teens as letting them run wild without oversight. What's next? Will Christiansburg High School ban its Blue Demons? That is what a number of Christians demanded a few years ago after the Montgomer County School Board forced Blacksburg High School to change from the Indians to the Bruins. A zero-tolerance policy against devil-worship seems to demand it. Or maybe Roanoke County's high schools need to update their mascots. Images of Knights, Highlanders, Titans and Vikings -- at Cave Spring, Glenvar, Hidden Valley and Northside -- all could go the wrong way. The schools do not allow lances, swords and axes on campus. Surely they share Principal Hand's concerns about hypocrisy. Only Roanoke County's William Byrd High School seems safe with its incongruously tame Terriers. Then again, aside from service dogs, the school usually does not allow canines. That's another mixed-message. Parry McCluer administrators should focus on the real guns that could make a campus dangerous, not a cartoon pirate. Source: http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/wb/xp-131653

I know what you're thinking... You're thinking "Great here's another thread bashing Glocks" but that might not be the case. Actually, I just got done reading a FAQ of sorts that addresses a lot of the things that are used to malign these handguns. Perhaps a little known fact is that I've owned two Glocks personally. A G27 and a G23. I've never owned a 9mm version but confess that the G19 has tempted me on more than one occasion as has the new 21SF. Not because either of them are particularly revolutionary, but because I do collect firearms (even if I don't keep them all) and Glock did transform the firearms industry in the 1980's. Anyway, here's the article in question. Feel free to read it and then post up your own thoughts. http://f-r-i.com/glock/FAQ/FAQ-casefailure.htm

You know... since then, Springfield has started selling the XD45C Tactical. 5" bbl from the tactical model but the short grip of the compact. Very nice.

We aim to please. Really? Cool... glad it helped you out too!

You lost me there.

I made a change whereby it will no longer be based on session cookies but actually be tracked by the forum database as to whether unread threads exist for a member. The catch to this is that it will reportedly case an increase of CPU utilization on our web server, so I will need to monitor this and might have to change it back if it slows things down too much. We'll wait and see how it goes.

Ah... cooler air. I drove my obnoxiously loud, unrefined, rednecky 20yr old Mustang into work today and it was gobbling up cool air like a Rottweiler on a can of Alpo.

Here's a pleasant surprise... Someone from H&K USA customer service noticed my quandary on the H&K Pro forum and sent me a nice private message stating that 4" low at 7 yds is a hallmark characteristic of over-pulling the LEM trigger and stated that the lighter trigger return spring and firing pin block spring is practically guaranteed to cure it for me. So I'll be ordering those parts immediately. Whomever said H&K customer service sucks apparently hasn't dealt with these folks lately. It's pretty much top notch when someone goes out of their way to initiate contact with a customer rather than the opposite.

You and I aren't going to see eye to eye on this. To me, when someone makes a stupid statement like "David spends more time wiping his guns down with a diaper than he does shooting them" it strikes me as being absolutely idiotic. Thus, you were an idiot for making it. If you knew me, you would know that I generally shoot the hell out of anything I own. a.) I've had the firearm for a week now. I've fired it every time an opportunity has presented itself and for no less than 200 rds each time.b.) I can't exactly walk out into my back yard at 10pm and fire off a few rounds. It'd like to but I can't. Maybe you have that luxury. c.) What amount of trigger time allows a person to really formulate an opinion on a firearm? I think Glock triggers are complete pieces of ****, and that's an opinion that I formed the first time I picked one up and made it go snap. But I learned to work with that, just the same as I will learn to work with the LEM system. I take constructive criticism quite well actually, but so far nothing you have said is even remotely constructive. It's funny how people sometimes act like complete asses and then say, "Hey... you can't take constructive criticism can you, buddy!" If it quacks like a duck...PS: It's not your honesty that's making you look stupid. Food for thought. PSS: Here is a whole thread of me taking constructive criticism on the LEM trigger. The difference is, those people are making suggestions and you're just being an argumentative dick.

Heh... that H&K wasn't as expensive as you might think. The P2000 is maybe $200 more than a Glock 23 if you count taxes. But you're more than welcome to shoot the hell out of it, and will likely shoot it better than I do if my luck continues to hold out.

No... it's employed. You didn't imply idiocy but you did employ it. I may not know nothin' bout them there tactical things, but I do know a thing or two about readin' and writin' and flossin' my guns with cloth diapers.

I don't have anything high-dollar but anyone's welcome to shoot anything I bring.

Hmmm... I think I know what you mean. Let me see what I can do about it.

That is seriously one ugly... thing. I remember seeing that on Future Weapons a while back. Definitely a case of function over form.

I'm trying to think of a reply that wouldn't bring me down to the same level of assumption and idiocy that you employed with that post... but I can't. That's pretty funny. I bet you've trained with some IT guys, accountants, nurses, lawyers, etc. and have been dying for the opportunity to say something like that for years. How did it feel? I guess this is where we set the precedent that someone who has never been LE or an "operator" can't have an opinion on all of this man stuff... And there we go.Actually, I do value the opinions of people who have used their firearms in situations like you've described. That's what made me take a closer look at the design limitations of the Glock and why I decided to carry something else. Maybe we can arrange to have my sources argue with your sources. I like Fords, too... are you a Chevy guy? We can get some of those people together and let them slug it out at the same time since that's essentially what this boils down to. There you go with the banning thing again. I'm really sorry to let you down, but I'm not much on mercy killings. If you're so convinced that this forum is run as some totalitarian regime then I'd like to point out that we haven't secured the borders and anyone can relocate as they desire. My guess is that you're just trying to build a case so that later you can point back, pull your belt up a little, push out your chest and say "YEP... I told that Tungsten guy he could just ban me if he wanted!"Um, ok. Noted. Thanks? As for my inevitable return to Glocks, it's funny... I've been on record for a while now as saying that one of these days I'll likely own another. I don't know that it would be my every-day carry but I do like them. I do doubt that it would be another .40SW as I don't like Glock's decision to give the chamber such a gaping maw just so that rounds wouldn't bottleneck as they hit the feed ramp. There are better designs to solve that problem; Glock just took the easy way out. The 21SF still looks kind of neat, but it would likely spend a lot of time just sitting in the safe, brought out occasionally only for a good diaper wiping. You seem obsessed with this. If it's an intimidation thing... you lose. I don't scare. Sorry. We can meet anytime you want at the range. I'm also sure enough of myself to repeat anything that I've said here, in person.Outshooting me and the P2000 right now wouldn't be an accomplishment for you to brag about. I could throw this gun with better accuracy. The LEM trigger is taking a lot for me to get accustomed to. Now, if I get to choose my poison, I'll bring one of my 1911s and we can see which of us can circumcise a gnat first at 50 yds. If it's just a thing of seeing who's gun can cycle 1,000 rounds without fail... I think the H&K can handle that. Hell, me shooting 1,000 rounds through it might help me get used to the funky trigger some anyway. Substitute "bowling ball" for "you come across like an a-hole on the Internet" and I'll agree with that. Again, I'd say it in person. But I've been called the same and been told that I have the tact of a chainsaw ... so what's a guy to do. It couldn't bother me less. You're just speaking my language. When September 11th becomes the day that you remember losing one of your children way too early... talk to me about being in a mood. Regardless, no harm has been done.

West Tennessee, North Georgia, Glock, wheelgun, flintlock... spear and sling. Doesn't matter. All will be welcome. But Len better bring his Kimber.

Lots of reflection, both on a personal and a "national" level. Continually mindful of and thankful for the fact that there are thousands of sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, dads, moms, husbands, wives out there right now putting their lives on the line for our nation and it's interests. Have fun with all of that super-duper uber ninja stuff, Joe!

Yeah.

Yeah, sorry... SP01 is a CZ 75 Variant. I misread 101 as 01.

Circular magazine... check.

If I put wheels on my P2000, will that make you happy?