TGO David

Did you guys read what I wrote in post #2 about different hat styles?

For what it's worth, Tommy... that is one of the better articulated responses to this thread in favor of Tactical Response that I have seen yet. I hope you keep visiting and participating when you can.

I've been in that group before. Might be in it now, but ignorance is bliss if I am. Just don't tell me.

PS: I know Reef will ask for a flex-fit cap. Once we are set up with the embroidery shop, I am sure they can produce our logo on anything you want but it will be a little more expensive if done in onesie twosie orders. This means polo shirts, bikini briefs, whatever... For the moment we'll just stick to the low profile khaki hat in quantity since I've seen them in person and know that they look really darn good.

This post was revised on Wednesday, September 26, 2007... Ok folks here is how this is going to work out. Hero Gear in Winchester, TN will be the official supplier of the TGO logo apparel. Joe already has a good relationship with an embroidery business down there by virtue of having hats and things made for the store. Joe also sells 5.11 Tactical apparel so he can provide shirts and other such things bearing the TGO logo on them. The plan is that Hero Gear will stock some hats and common sizes in shirts in the store. You will be able to stop by and pick them up or Joe will even do sales over the phone and ship your merchandise to you. If you want something emblazoned with the TGO logo and Joe doesn't have it in stock, he has said that he will work with you on a case by case basis and try to fulfill that request. !!! PLEASE DO NOT CALL TO ORDER YET !!! !!! PLEASE DO NOT CALL TO ORDER YET !!! !!! PLEASE DO NOT CALL TO ORDER YET !!! I'll let Joe post something about this, including pricing, once the final details get hammered out. I'll be sending him a logo in the next 24 hours that he can supply to the embroidery shop and get things rolling. Once Hero Gear is ready to sell, either Joe or I will post something about it. This was just to let everyone know that the idea hasn't died. More details soon!

Again, you have a Constitutional Right to bear firearms in the sense that you have the protected right to own them. You can even own them in California, with restrictions. However you do not have a Constitutional Right to carry a firearm as you go about your daily business. The State sells you that privilege providing you meet predefined criteria. Saying that you see the point but don't agree with it is fine I guess... but it's like saying that you see the point that fire is hot, but don't agree with that either. Disagree all you want, but if you reach your hand into the fire you're going to get burned and then what will all of that disagreement gained you? Surely the fire doesn't care what you think. This whole discussion reminds me of a cartoon... ...plenty of smart folks here. None of us are dumb. But some of us are pushing against a door marked PULL.

This matter is not something that needs to be handled by the members of TN Gun Owners. It appears to be a felonious act and one that should involve the Sullivan County Sheriff's Department at the very least. Two things that concern me, aside from the fact that it sounds like you are asking for vigilante justice in the form of a TGO member harassing this guy for you: 1. PayPal does not allow their service to be used the facilitate the transfer of money for firearms. 2. Your user profile says that you are 19 years of age. You must be 21 to purchase a handgun. Regardless, this thread doesn't set well with me so I am closing it. Best of luck to you in getting your money back through the appropriate channels. Sullivan County Sherriff's Department http://www.scsotn.com/ P.O. Box 589 Blountville, TN 37617 (423)279-7500

Anything that requires a permit is not a right. You don't have to seek a permit to exercise freedom of speech do you? Just so that you don't misunderstand, we're on the same side here. I just see things for what they are and you're seeing them for what you want them to be. Do I want them to be that way too? Sure. The problem is that as I see it 2nd Amendment Rights are an endangered species. Over the past 10 years there has definitely been a resuscitation of those Rights as evidenced by the number of states that have "Shall issue" permits... but again, a Right should not require a permit. You do not have the Right to drive a car on public streets. The State issues you a permit to do so if you meet their requirements which were ostensibly set forth for the common good. You do not have the Right to carry a firearm in Tennessee. The State issues you a permit to do so if you meet their requirements which were also ostensibly set forth for the common good. And revenue. Either of those permits can be revoked for just cause by the State. If they revoke your driver's license, you're no longer legally allowed to drive on public streets. If they revoke your carry permit, you're no longer legally allowed to carry on public property. Like I said, I don't disagree that it should be a Right if you take the Constitution and interpret the clause "to bear arms" as meaning that you should be able to literally bear arms anywhere and everywhere that you choose. The current school of thought is that "bearing arms" means that you can just simply OWN them. Not necessarily that you'll be toting them around all the time and in effect going armed. The State of Tennessee takes the latter approach on this. They acknowledge that you have a Constitutional Right to own a firearm. They do not acknowledge that you have a Constitutional Right to carry that firearm to Kroger. Therefore they issue carry permits for that sort of thing. Frankly I'm with Marswolf and the others here who have said that activist Open Carry will become the death of the open carry provision. And then we can all sit around and thank the folks who pushed the envelope of the law for their hard work at getting the noose pulled even tighter for the rest of us. Remember... discretion is the better part of valor. There's wisdom in that. Just my $0.02 on the subject.

I will say this, Mars. There are some seriously dumb people in this world and a few of them own firearms and don't have any business doing so. For those people, RSOs are a necessity on public ranges. One guy came into Joe's shop yesterday and proceeded to muzzle rake Joe and everyone else in the room with what ended up being a loaded firearm that he had brought in to trade. Hornet Handler and I immediately went to the other side of the building and put a few walls between us and this bozo. Gun shop owners should wear kevlar just because of the Stupid People Factor.

http://israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?t=13 Conscripted service, for the win.

This argument is flawed. So, you say that you'll never be back. How much do you think that really hurts the business? Open carry patrons probably represent less than 1/10th of 1% of to the total patrons of any business. Do you really think that they notice what they lost when they tally up the books at the end of the month? I doubt it. Maybe they would notice more if they were a store that sold nothing but red, left foot, New Balance #708 shoes in East Moosefart Nebraska (Pop. 53) and you were one of their regular customers... but I guarantee you that a company the size of a Wal-Mart doesn't notice and doesn't care. I'm not saying that this behavior from companies is right. I'm just saying that people who brag about voting with their dollars are seriously over estimating their worth to that company. And I'm not saying either that you should keep giving that company your money if you feel that strongly about the issue or any other issue. It is certainly your prerogative to tell the manager or owner that you're taking your business to a competitor who respects your 2nd Amendment right to carry a firearm whether it be concealed or openly visible. This is why I don't call our Prohibited Carry Locations Database something silly like "Gun Owner Unfriendly Businesses" because I think it comes across as being fairly pretentious. Those businesses do want your money, after all. They just don't want your guns on their private property, and that is their prerogative and right as well.

I can neither confirm nor deny Joe's presence at the store today. Dude... you blew his cover.

I had a chance to do some shooting at an unsupervised facility this afternoon. There were full-auto and suppressed weapons in use and people were trading up firearms quite a bit to shoot whatever struck their fancy. Amazingly... none of us shot each other. No RSO and yet no one assumed room temperature! Thankfully we all knew enough about each other to trust each other's abilities and gun handling etiquette. But I think that's the key. If you don't play well with others or don't know how to, then having RSOs on hand is a good idea.

You're all a bunch of posers who never do anything but wipe your weapons down with diapers, aren't you? [reference to some stupid claim made against me a while back] Hell yeah I do it. I'll even take them out load up some snap caps and dry fire them if the mood strikes me. It's... training. Yeah! Training!

There was a case in the past 5 years where one of the Wilson County police departments raided the wrong house in the middle of the night. The startled elderly home owner was rousted from his sleep by the door being busted in. He came up from his bed, armed, and the police shot him dead. Wrong house... wrong guy. Dead. I need to find the news articles regarding it because I am fairly sure that the police more or less got away with it too.

And the good news is that like you in your past life, not all police officers are pricks. The more involved with shooting that I've become down here in Tennessee, the more LEOs that I have met and the majority of them have been average guys just trying to do a job without getting killed. A few were mall ninjas and a few others were just Alpha Dog jerks, but most have been good regular folks. BUT... if Buford T. Justice pulls me over on the highway and asks me if I've got anything cool in my black bag in the back of the vehicle, my answer to that's just going to be "No Sir... just a rifle, properly locked and secured, ammo kept separate. I'm on my way to/from the target range. Here's my handgun carry permit and I would like to let you know that I am presently armed and that is on my right hip at this moment. I'm going to keep my hands on the steering wheel for you now and await your instructions." Why? Because I like breathing and don't like the sight of my own blood.

This will be the first time I have ever even given a second thought to carrying my ammo separate from my AR15 or keeping a lock through the bolt while I travel... but I'll be doing both today when I go down to visit the guys at Hero Gear and maybe stop to do some shooting on the way back home. Prior to reading this thread, I had never really given any consideration the notion that Tennessee's permit is a handgun carry permit and that an officer might get his shorts in a knot if he were to somehow discover that my AR15 was nestled inside it's bag in the far rear of my SUV, magazine firmly inserted into the mag well. :-\ Today I've got a cable lock threaded through the action and the mag well and I'll keep magazines tucked away in their pockets on the case. You know, the shameful part of this is that the State of Tennessee trusts me to carry a concealed weapon. It would only seem logical that a police officer would extend that same trust to me to carry my rifle and ammo in the vehicle w/o having them locked up in such a ridiculous fashion. This is totally absurd.

Welcome, Tim. I've got in-laws down there around that part of Chattanooga and scattered places here, there and between. Glad to see you saw something worthwhile here that made you decide to join up. That's an interesting consideration that you present for choosing a firearm. Off the cuff I would say that a revolver definitely sounds like it might be the better choice for you since it sounds like you have at least marginal difficulty racking the slide on automatics. For a counterpoint, I'd say though that autoloaders generally have a higher round count capacity than revolvers so you will find yourself reloading less often with an automatic. Especially if you're talking about one of the several high-capacity 9mm models that carry anywhere from 15 - 17 rounds in a single magazine. Hmmm. The more I think about this, the more I might have to change my initial recommendation. I can see where an autoloader might be difficult to reload, but I can also see where a revolver wouldn't be much easier. And really, as long as you have good strength in your right thumb, you can probably release the slide on an automatic with your shooting hand via the slide-stop lever just as easily as you could slap the cylinder shut on a revolver. The most difficult point would be racking a closed slide to chamber that first round. But if you change mags before you run it dry and the slide locks back or if you just release the slide with the stop lever, that becomes a lot easier one-handed. Like I said... interesting considerations all the way around. Hopefully you'll find some good answers from folks here. In the meantime, I think I'll try to put myself in your shoes a bit and do some completely one-handed shooting with my 9mm Springfield XD today and see if that helps me make a better recommendation. How about loading magazines? Do you have enough manual dexterity in your left arm and hand to easily load rounds into a mag?

You know it.

Ya know... I guess it's possible for a few pansies to slip through the Crucible every know and again, but I've never met a former Marine who acted like as much of a whiney little bitch as this guy did. He needs a free pass back through Parris Island to get his world re-aligned.

You are very right. But this was... 1994 I think and while I was a serious gun nerd, I hadn't been spending my own money on them for very long. My next gun was a Smith & Wesson 3913. I miss that one.

I had a Ruger P89 once. In fact, it was the first handgun that I ever bought for myself. A big, clunky, butt-ugly 9mm. I sold it within a month.

Ok, I just changed my mind...

David, welcome to the group! I was just reading that story this morning and nearly puked in my shoes at the pathetic way that particular cop handled things. It's surprising that ColtCCO doesn't own a nice chunk of Knoxville now.

Or this one... [ame] [/ame]