TGO David

Which of these two illustrates correct muzzle discipline for carrying a carbine on the grounds of OHGC? #1 Muzzle in the sky. #2 Position SUL. Muzzle to the ground, tightly controlled within a 180* arc immediately in front of the operator, confined to the operator's person via tight strap around torso. #1 seems like an inherently bad idea to me given that Sir Isaac Newton's laws stated centuries ago that what goes up must indeed come down. In the event of a negligent discharge, a round fired skyward would potentially result in damage or injury to personnel or property whereas a round fired into the ground stops there with minimal hazard to anyone but the firearm's operator.

Despite whatever you may have been taught; despite whatever you may have heard; despite common sense and logic... these guys are doing it WRONG: Carrying your carbine in Position SUL with the muzzle tightly controlled, carbine tightly strapped against your body, safety on and finger nowhere near the trigger is NOT the safe way to practice muzzle discipline. The correct way, according to George... is this: Rifle held with muzzle pointed in the air. PERIOD. Gravity is not in play on the grounds of OHGC. What goes up will NOT come down as long as the negligent discharge happens on OHGC property. There will be absolutely NO damage to personnel or property by a round returning to earth should your weapon somehow be discharged while you carry it with the muzzle aimed toward the sky. This has been a public service announcement. (and is pretty much how the whole thing got started yesterday)

Who, me? I figured that George had given us more than enough grief for the day so asking the other RO about his badge was just a small way of saying thanks to them all for giving us the free rectal exams. The guy actually looked at the dirt when I asked him what department he was with. Man he was strutting around that place like a cowboy ready to shoot someone (sorry, had to) with the badge and his 1911 rig set up for weak-side draw. When Dan and George were telling each other how nice the other looked, HCP Badge Guy was hovering on the periphery the entire time. Just in case a cop was needed. He probably has them on speed-dial.

That's freakin cool!

I can't help but notice that you have one of them beneath your user name and avatar here.

You spotted that one a mile away! Are you sure you weren't a forward observer?

It was fairly obvious that George (the RO in question) had purposed it in his heart to make us as miserable as possible for the remainder of the day. Twice I personally witnessed him telling members of the TGO crowd to do something unsafe to satisfy his hunger to be obeyed. Actually that's how the whole thing started. I'm afraid that it was my fault for refusing to carry my weapon in a manner that would have been extremely unsafe for anyone who happened to be within a half-mile radius of the range. I've gotta get me a HCP badge, though. That was some slick stuff!

That's why they call it breaking news.

Thanks guys. It was my pleasure and it was fun seeing the rifle be shot by people who knew how to shoot 'em.

Buk, sorry you guys drove so far only to be made to feel unwelcome and unwanted by the black-powder crowd. I've been keeping quiet about that part so far, but it's no coincidence that so many of the TGO members picked up on exactly the same thing regarding the OHGC members present at the other end of the firing line. My gut tells me that the black-powder folks had planned a picnic lunch and weren't happy to see so many guests there. The controlled full auto incident was just the provocation that the RO needed to start making it uncomfortable for the rest of us. The OHGC rules state that full-auto is allowed so long as it is not sustained fire and is controlled. Dan's string may have been a little more than a 3-round burst, but it was completely and precisely controlled and did not even account for a half of a magazine worth. I know this for a fact because I had alread burned up more than half of the mag myself before giving the weapon back to Dan to fire. More on this later. I'm saying more than I really wanted to right now but I think everyone is already starting to put together a fairly accurate picture of what happened. I'm making notes, folks. Once I get a good picture of what was going on up and down the line, I intend to address it with the OHGC Board of Directors.

*** comments retracted ***

I'm glad you guys enjoyed the targets. It seemed like a fun idea with Halloween right around the corner. You never know when good anti-zombie marksmanship might come in handy.

Dan's full auto string was nowhere near uncontrolled. I'm reluctant to make any sort of public statement about what happened today until I get all of the facts squared away and know what sort of interaction I may need to have with the OHGC BoD. I do intend to address the issue of the RO treating our group with what I can only term as being "passive aggressive behavior". I certainly did not feel welcome there as an OHGC member.

I believe Joe and some others from Hero Gear are supposed to be there today also. We talked about it in their store yesterday and it sounded like they might be bringing some cool Class III toys.

We voted this morning. Got in line about 45 mins before the polls opened and by the time 8am rolled around, the line was stretched clear around the building.

Not yet.

Good info there, Joe. Thanks for warning us!

It's been my understanding that the hardware THR runs on is owned at least in part by Oleg. So that's the easiest physical asset to identify for the purposes of declaring that theft of property has occurred.

McCain Barr Nader

If this guy shows up all black and blue, you guys are squarely to blame.

I've been waiting for an i-Bolt review from one of our members but so far, nothing. He may still be hiding it among his golf clubs. Anyway, back on topic... I wonder if those use glass lenses or plastic. The SF G2 used Lexan but the G2L and P6L switched over to Pyrex because of the heat the LED units generate from sustained use. Neither of those product descriptions say, and I can't find anything about these lights on the S&W web site.

Sure hope you don't speed on your way to the next CIS class. You might want to bring some bananas just in case.

What did you think of the complaint itself? I read through it and was sort of amazed at how much of it struck me as being "he said / she said" material. I guess lawsuits typically boil down to that at some base level anyway, and my legal studies consist of that one time that I stayed at a Holiday Inn express... but still. The attorney also seems to have taken the stance of throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and hoping some of it sticks, in respect to the damages being sought.

Nah, they don't look like any of the SureFire lights that I have seen lately. I carry a 6PL and have a G2L at home and there are a lot of visible differences between the designs. S&W takes a lot of pride in the fact that they have brought a lot of things back in house over the past few years and have invested a lot of money in new CNC gear. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that at least the bodies of these lights are being made in house.