TGO David

For the record, upon reviewing the OHGC forum this morning I do see where the rule regarding full auto firing is stated as being in the 25 yard PISTOL PIT only. It was previously my understanding that it was only allowed at 25 yards. In that respect, the use of the Krinkov AK at the rifle lane should have been restricted to just semi-automatic fire to be in line with the rules. The full-auto bursts should have occurred within the pistol pit, in which case someone else's butt would have still gotten chewed. While this was indeed an error on our part, I would be remiss if I didn't point out that: -- It was the only error that we made, to my knowledge. -- It occurred later in the day and was centered around one person only. The automatic fire incident was only a small part of the day and must be considered in context with the treatment our group had already received well before it happened. George was already unhappy with our presence on the range and had already confronted several of our members and guests with random, imagined misdeeds. Events that were accompanied at least twice with recommended remedies that were not only wrong but also unsafe.

Joe, sign me up for an orange hat. Can I mail-order one?

Ministry of Religion?

Seems like George really doesn't need to be an RO. Which is the gist of what I will be trying to address with the OHGC BoD soon. Frankly I'm not even 100% sure he is a current member given that his member ID badge was a lime green "2007" badge and not one of the current red "2008" badges. All I know is, I'm wearing one of my blaze orange hunting hats the next time I shoot there. For safety's sake.

Ah... I see you have the Microsoft Open License Monkey.

Any of those targets could be considered to represent "Minute of Bad-guy" hits and would result in your attacker being on the ground. It's always good to push yourself to be better and improve your accuracy, but there's no need to beat yourself up about it either. There's always next time.

I'm retracting my previous statements about CP being an alright guy. The more that I have read, including some excerpts from the book Blackhawk Down the more I see him as a RINO who is likely positioning himself to be Barack's Secretary of Defense.

My wife browses the forums almost every night over my shoulder but hasn't been online much. Maybe she'll get on here some more now.

Sundays seem to be a more popular day to shoot at OHGC, which was compounded by the fact that they had an organized Muzzle Loader Match yesterday also. The club usually denotes whether the range is closed for a function, but this wasn't the case yesterday. I suppose those guys just assumed that they would have enough rifle lanes for their purposes, and they did. They just didn't like the fact that we had loud automatic weapons. Clearly George (and the muzzle loading crowd) wanted us to leave. George was dying for us to do something wrong so that he could throw us out, which is a complete crock of crap considering that my $50 membership is just as good as any of theirs is. Furthermore, we generated $60 worth of guest fees for them yesterday. I'm become a little indignant when someone implies that my money isn't as good as someone else's ... and that was stated in not so many words yesterday. Again, I'll be taking it up with their BoD.

While that might have made it a little more entertaining than it already was, no. Contrary to popular thought, you don't have to be .mil or ex-mil to know how to handle a firearm properly. As evidenced by the fact that George was proudly wearing a paratrooper pin on his orange hat and still insisted that I needed to carry my carbine around like Saddam. I think George was jumping out of planes a little before the M16A1 was introduced so his knowledge of the modern M4 may be somewhat nonexistent.

Which of these two illustrates correct muzzle discipline for carrying a carbine on the grounds of OHGC? #1 Muzzle in the sky. #2 Position SUL. Muzzle to the ground, tightly controlled within a 180* arc immediately in front of the operator, confined to the operator's person via tight strap around torso. #1 seems like an inherently bad idea to me given that Sir Isaac Newton's laws stated centuries ago that what goes up must indeed come down. In the event of a negligent discharge, a round fired skyward would potentially result in damage or injury to personnel or property whereas a round fired into the ground stops there with minimal hazard to anyone but the firearm's operator.

Despite whatever you may have been taught; despite whatever you may have heard; despite common sense and logic... these guys are doing it WRONG: Carrying your carbine in Position SUL with the muzzle tightly controlled, carbine tightly strapped against your body, safety on and finger nowhere near the trigger is NOT the safe way to practice muzzle discipline. The correct way, according to George... is this: Rifle held with muzzle pointed in the air. PERIOD. Gravity is not in play on the grounds of OHGC. What goes up will NOT come down as long as the negligent discharge happens on OHGC property. There will be absolutely NO damage to personnel or property by a round returning to earth should your weapon somehow be discharged while you carry it with the muzzle aimed toward the sky. This has been a public service announcement. (and is pretty much how the whole thing got started yesterday)

Who, me? I figured that George had given us more than enough grief for the day so asking the other RO about his badge was just a small way of saying thanks to them all for giving us the free rectal exams. The guy actually looked at the dirt when I asked him what department he was with. Man he was strutting around that place like a cowboy ready to shoot someone (sorry, had to) with the badge and his 1911 rig set up for weak-side draw. When Dan and George were telling each other how nice the other looked, HCP Badge Guy was hovering on the periphery the entire time. Just in case a cop was needed. He probably has them on speed-dial.

That's freakin cool!

I can't help but notice that you have one of them beneath your user name and avatar here.

You spotted that one a mile away! Are you sure you weren't a forward observer?

It was fairly obvious that George (the RO in question) had purposed it in his heart to make us as miserable as possible for the remainder of the day. Twice I personally witnessed him telling members of the TGO crowd to do something unsafe to satisfy his hunger to be obeyed. Actually that's how the whole thing started. I'm afraid that it was my fault for refusing to carry my weapon in a manner that would have been extremely unsafe for anyone who happened to be within a half-mile radius of the range. I've gotta get me a HCP badge, though. That was some slick stuff!

That's why they call it breaking news.

Thanks guys. It was my pleasure and it was fun seeing the rifle be shot by people who knew how to shoot 'em.

Buk, sorry you guys drove so far only to be made to feel unwelcome and unwanted by the black-powder crowd. I've been keeping quiet about that part so far, but it's no coincidence that so many of the TGO members picked up on exactly the same thing regarding the OHGC members present at the other end of the firing line. My gut tells me that the black-powder folks had planned a picnic lunch and weren't happy to see so many guests there. The controlled full auto incident was just the provocation that the RO needed to start making it uncomfortable for the rest of us. The OHGC rules state that full-auto is allowed so long as it is not sustained fire and is controlled. Dan's string may have been a little more than a 3-round burst, but it was completely and precisely controlled and did not even account for a half of a magazine worth. I know this for a fact because I had alread burned up more than half of the mag myself before giving the weapon back to Dan to fire. More on this later. I'm saying more than I really wanted to right now but I think everyone is already starting to put together a fairly accurate picture of what happened. I'm making notes, folks. Once I get a good picture of what was going on up and down the line, I intend to address it with the OHGC Board of Directors.

*** comments retracted ***

I'm glad you guys enjoyed the targets. It seemed like a fun idea with Halloween right around the corner. You never know when good anti-zombie marksmanship might come in handy.

Dan's full auto string was nowhere near uncontrolled. I'm reluctant to make any sort of public statement about what happened today until I get all of the facts squared away and know what sort of interaction I may need to have with the OHGC BoD. I do intend to address the issue of the RO treating our group with what I can only term as being "passive aggressive behavior". I certainly did not feel welcome there as an OHGC member.

I believe Joe and some others from Hero Gear are supposed to be there today also. We talked about it in their store yesterday and it sounded like they might be bringing some cool Class III toys.

We voted this morning. Got in line about 45 mins before the polls opened and by the time 8am rolled around, the line was stretched clear around the building.