JAB

  That is because we can't.  Period.  We might curb such killings but there is no way to stop them.  Even if we allow rights to be unjustly stripped and so on such killings will not stop.   I think that is the real problem with all the knee-jerk legislation, etc.  It impacts the rights of the law-abiding but cannot stop the kinds of things it is intended to stop.  Legislators are just wanting to be seen 'doing something'.  That is because people need a clear 'problem' that can be confronted and solved.  In this case, however, until someone 'snaps' there truly might not be anything to confront.  People don't want to accept that fact, however, and so they allow (or even call for) legislation that makes it seem like the 'problem' is being confronted but which, in reality, doesn't do much to stop future tragedy and only restricts the rights of those who are not and will not be the problem.

  I hope you are right.  I don't mind so much seeing them 'settle' for a while.  The problem is that the storylines the writers have been establishing around that 'settling' have stretched on for too long.  Sure, let them find a place to hole up and catch their breath for part of the season but nothing says that they have to stay in that one place for the entire season.  Let them stay there for maybe half a season or so then move on.  As I said, before, if I were in charge of the show they would have confronted the Governor and left the prison at least two or three episodes ago.  Nothing wrong with wrapping up that storyline before it drags on too long (which it has) and then finishing the season with them on the road.  That way they could work in more episodes like last Sundays - with a balance of action and character development - and have fewer filler, 'soap opera' type episodes.   OH, BTW, I just have to comment on your sig line about Merle, Daryl and Shane being the zombie apocalypse dream team.  Have you really thought about that?  I mean, the first time Merle did something Shane didn't agree with, Shane would kill him (not in a fair, stand up fight - Shane wouldn't take that chance, he'd just shoot Merle without warning.)  Then Daryl would kill Shane.   Then you'd be left with just Daryl - which was all you really needed in the first place. :nervous:

  Nah.  That would make them as bad as the Governor and his henchmen.  There are men, women and children at Woodbury who really are not to blame for all the crap that has happened.  After Rick's apparent 'epiphany' last week that he was at risk of becoming the Governor in his efforts to beat the Governor, I don't see them doing that.   If I were calling the shots for Rick's group, we'd take what supplies we could and split from the prison.  I actually think that hunkering down and regrouping there was a good idea (especially since there was a pregnant woman then a newborn with the group) but it is time to get moving, again.  Not only is there direct conflict with Woodbury but supplies in the prison have gotten low and there probably isn't a whole lot left to scavenge in the surrounding area.  As a base of operations, the prison is played out.   Personally, I'd leave some kind of 'trap' for when the Governor brings his 'forces' to the prison and I would split.  Then, if the Governor wasn't caught in that trap, a few months later when everything has died down I'd turn Daryl and one or two others loose to go back into Woodbury, under the cover of darkness.  The citizens of Woodbury would awaken the next morning to find their Governor hanging from a tree near the town square with no sign of anyone from my group around.   One place I'd have to seriously consider doing some recon on would be Herschel's farm.  The herd was apparently quite mobile.  While some stragglers might be left to clear, I wouldn't be surprised if the main body moved on through and most of them are gone, now.  Heck, the group cleared the prison so surely they could clear the farm once the herd (or horde) moved on.  For that matter, if the herd picked up local walkers as it moved through, the farm may now be one of the safest places around.  The livestock might be gone but there is still plenty of land for growing crops, plenty of woods for hunting and so on.  There is no reason to believe that the house wouldn't still be standing. Further, they are already familiar with the surroundings and could build fortifications on the property in case they need to fall back to them at some point.  To me, that would make more sense than forging further on into areas I knew nothing about which are just as likely to be overrun as the farm.  The farm would be a good place for the baby to grow up.   Of course, while that might be a very practical thing to do in 'real life', it would probably make for some boring television.  Oh, well.   For that matter, even if they weren't going to stay at the farm, being that they probably had gathered supplies and then left in too much of a hurry to take those supplies with them, there still might be a pretty good cache of things like canned goods, etc. at the farm.  If so, it would at least be worth going back for some of those provisions.  Even that big, heavy-duty looking generator Herschel had (it appeared to be in an outbuilding, not the barn that burned) would be worth going back for if it could be loaded onto a truck and taken with them.

  Yep.  Don't try to take advantage of me by jacking up your prices when the rush is on and expect me to feel any 'loyalty' to your business.   I will still support my favorite LGS (Farnsworth's) because, while their prices have gone up some during this fiasco, I really believe those increases were of necessity and haven't seen anything that makes me think they are being ridiculous about it.  The same was true during the last crunch.  There are other gun stores that did jack prices sky high during the last crunch - and consequently I rarely visit those stores, anymore.  I imagine they are probably doing the same thing now, however.

Okay, so a couple of things that are apropos of absolutely nothing, really:   1. Was that a .410 pump Glenn had slung over his shoulder in last night's episode?  I could tell it had a tube mag and it looked to have a brass bead front sight.  The barrel and tube mag looked too small to be a 12 or 20 gauge.   It started me thinking that such a shotgun, while not the best choice for defending the group/prison from the Woodbury folks, probably wouldn't be a bad choice if the biggest threat were slow-moving walkers.  With slugs or buckshot, plenty good enough to explode the overripe pumpkin-like heads of walkers (if stomping them once caves them in then a .410 would do just fine.)  You would also have the ability to use smaller shot loads to harvest small game.  Other advantages would be decreased recoil compared to a 20 or 12 along with smaller, lighter shells making it easier to carry more ammo.  Finally, if the current ammo 'crunch' is any indicator, someone scavenging Walmart and sporting goods stores might find .410 ammo long after all the 12 and 20 gauge stuff is gone.   2. Having seen her a bit more 'cleaned up' and not scowling for the entirety of the episode, I now believe that Danai Gurira (Michonne) just might be the 'hottest' woman on the show - but only with the dreads/braids (which she doesn't seem to have in 'real life.)  Just my opinion, of course.  Carry on.

  That is kind of the way I see it, too.  To me, there is a difference in 'capitalism at work' and taking advantage of customers just as there is a difference in honest lending and usury.  I understand that, in these times, a LGS might have to raise prices a little just to make the same profit margin because their suppliers have upped the wholesale price.  Heck, I even understand raising prices a dollar or two or even a few dollars beyond that to maximize profits and benefit from supply and demand.  Doubling or even tripling prices just because they think they might find a 'sucker' to pay those prices, IMO, reflects an intent to take advantage of the potential buyer and shows poor business ethics on the part of the seller.  As previously stated, they can put whatever price they want on their stuff.  For my part, however, not only will I not pay that price, now but I will also remember which business owners thought so little of customer relationships when the crunch was on - meaning I won't be as likely to shop with them in the future even when prices return to 'normal'.

  I did think that they should have at least had Merle stab that pig-sticker into the Governor during the fight, even if it wasn't a fatal wound.  At first, I was also thinking, "How in the heck would the Governor beat Merle?"  Then I realized that he hadn't.  Just like always, the Gov let his people do the dirty work then he stepped in to act like he is more than he really is.  First, a walker attacked Merle - snuck up and got a bite in.  Now, I don't know if it actually bit him or if it hit the metal apparatus covering his arm but it did get a bite in.  Then he hits the ground and the Gov's henchmen stomp the crap out of him.  So by the time the Governor hot ahold of him, he was already (possibly) bitten and likely had at least a few cracked ribs and a concussion if not some major, broken bones and internal bleeding and he still didn't go down without a fight.  The Gov didn't beat Merle - it took multiple, hardened, ruthless men and a walker to do that.  The Governor just strutted in and took the 'glory'.   I hate the Governor and will be glad when he is dead.   And for those who saw the preview of next week on The Talking Dead, who else thinks Rick's group is going to not only leave the prison ahead of the Governor's arrival but that they are going to leave a little 'surprise' behind for him and his people?  Anyone else notice what appeared to be a distinct lack of walkers surrounding the prison when the Woodbury folks arrived?  I hope Rick et al do what I think they do - because that is what I would do; drive the walkers into the prison, lock them in and leave them to wait for the Governor's people to come running in.

The first time I saw a commercial for those shake weights I said that it looked like the guy was trying to build endurance and practicing his technique for...um...taking care of himself.  I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one whose mind is firmly in the gutter.

  There are other implications, as well.  For example, if one were thinking, "If we can just survive until these current zombies are all either eradicated or, hopefully (eventually) become so decomposed/dessicated as to no longer be a threat then we can start to rebuild," then the whole 'everyone is infected' thing really throws a monkey wrench into the works.    That is because, unless a cure is found, there can be no end to the zombie outbreak.  All subsequent generations of humans will have the virus and every woman who gets pregnant will be risking a miscarriage turning into a zombie eating its way out.  Friends/loved ones will have to be shot in the head ASAP upon death while anyone and everyone who dies with no one around to take care of that comes back as a zombie (even in a settled/'civilized' society that would be plenty - imagine what it would be like in a post-zombie world.)  IOW, there is no outlasting the zombie plague because as long as people are alive the virus lives.

  Nothing wrong with an LCP.  I don't hate semiautos - I even carry one, sometimes.  I have a Kel Tec P3AT - the original design that Ruger traced onto that 'blank piece of paper' that they used to design their Little Copied Pistol.  I keep it around because there are times when it's 'flat' nature fits really well for certain situations (like in a low-slung belly band under dress clothes.)  I actually shoot it pretty well.  For the most part, though, since I got a 642 the wheelgun has booted it right out of my pocket.  That is partly because those are exactly the size to power type semiautos that I expect to be a bit more jam prone - plus the capacity of a standard mag really isn't that much greater than a revolver.  I honestly don't find the 642 any more difficult or uncomfortable to carry in a pocket holster than the P3AT - but I don't carry in my back pocket.   I have a 9-round magazine for the P3AT.  It wouldn't be very practical to carry it with the 9-rounder as that would pretty well defeat the purpose of carrying a pocket pistol but I do sometimes carry it as a back-up mag.  Despite feeling that a reload will probably never be a necessity, I figure that if I were carrying the P3AT and did have to reload I might as well be serious about it.   This is what the Kel Tec 9 rounder looks like.  I don't know if anyone is making something like this for the LCP or not.   http://www.keltecweapons.com/product/p3at-37-9rnd-magazine/   I have also found that I shoot pistols that are similar in style to the old Walther style pretty well.  For that reason, I sometimes carry my CZ82.  I feel like it is a pretty good compromise between size, recoil, capacity and power - and it is a danged accurate little pistol.  Finally, on the rare occasions that I go somewhere that I find that little bit of extra firepower comforting, I carry the Ruger P95 with a spare 15 rounder.  So I'm not a 'revolver or die' kinda guy.  99% of the time, though, if I can carry it will be the 642 - which is to say that the majority of the time I choose to carry it instead of a semiauto and it doesn't leave me feeling undergunned.  Of course, often times if I am carrying one of the larger semiautos I will also carry my NAA mini WMR revolver on the weak side so I will have a revolver on me, just in case.

Wheelgunners are totally outgunned.  Revolvers are slow to use and very difficult to reload.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk1v5bSFPw   Yeah, I know - most of us are not Jerry Miculek.  Heck, even he has said that the reload was partly luck and I don't think we would be carrying a custom, competition revolver for daily self defense.  This is presented more as the extreme of what is possible.   My real point is that if a normal, non-superhuman shooter trained with their more or less off the shelf revolver to be 1/10th as fast (meaning 12 shots, with a reload, in under 30 seconds) - heck, even 1/20th as fast (which would be 12 shots, with a reload, in under a minute) - they would still be doing pretty well and likely reloading their revolver as quickly as the average shooter can reload a semiauto.   Of course, given my theory that, for a non-Leo or non-military, high volumes of fire - much less the need to reload - happen mostly on television and in tactical fantasy camps, that factor probably doesn't matter as much as the proponents of the 'faster reloading' semiauto would like to believe.  The first five or six are just as fast from a wheelgun as from a semi.  Maybe even faster.   Now, if you want to really see slow, uncoordinated shooting, look at this guy and his extremely outdated single action revolver:  He should probably just stick with cutting hair (no joke - I've seen this guy on a couple of shooting shows and for his 'real job' he owns a salon - not a saloon, a salon - and is a hair dresser.)   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AJzv8gb2A

  Point 1:  That is like saying that anyone who argues that a Ford Mustang is better than a Mazda Miata is grasping at straws and nostalgia.  In other words, nonsense.  Neither is necessarily 'better' - it all depends on one's preferences, experiences, needs and situation.   Point 2:  That is like saying that chocolate is better than vanilla, period, the matter was settled long ago and that there is nothing left to argue about.  There is no such thing as unequivocal fact in this discussion as it is largely opinion and preference driven.   I like revolvers better.  Generally speaking, I shoot revolvers better.  As for 'trust' issues, it is my belief that a revolver can jam (although it is very unlikely) but a semiauto, at some point, will jam.  Period.  The semiauto might be 100% reliable in and of itself but can still jam due to ammo issues or other factors.  I believe that the likelihood of such a jam increases as the size of the pistol gets smaller relative to power.  IOW, a pistol that is in roughly the same size class as a J-frame revolver - especially in anything over .32acp - is going to be more likely to jam than a full sized pistol of the same caliber.  As many people are daily carrying these smaller guns, I think that is definitely a factor to consider.  I also think that the idea that your average shooter could clear an ammo malfunction jam in a semiauto, especially a small semiauto, under pressure while being shot at or otherwise attacked, faster than that same person could simply pull the trigger again on a revolver is simply unrealistic.   So, in a full-sized gun a semiauto might have a slight edge over a revolver (although I don't believe that edge is as great as you do.)  In a 'pocket' gun, however, I think the wheelgun takes the lead in most situations.

  Amy was bitten in the neck but, in her case, that didn't matter as far as getting sick goes.  She didn't die from infection, etc. - she bled out almost immediately because one or more major blood vessels were severed, just as if her throat had been slit, etc.   I think you are right wrt the Governor not dying of infection.  As I said in a previous post, I think the storyline/character development needs Rick's group to face him as a human.

Heh, we probably are overthinking it.  Heck, we are probably thinking of things that the writers of the show never thought of.  Still, it is an entertaining mental exercise with no, real consequence.  I guess it is partly because of my English background - I tend to think of stories as 'collaborations' between the writer and the reader (or viewer.)  The writer provides at least the basics of the story - hopefully along with some interesting details - and the reader/viewer reads/watches the story as filtered through the lens of his/her own opinions, feelings, experiences and so on and uses his or her imagination to flesh things out.  That is often actually the most fun part of a good story, to me.   Also, I think if I didn't do that  I'd start to lose interest in the show, much like you (Mike .357) stated is happening in your case.  There are only about three or four shows on television that I am even remotely interested in, right now, so I am trying not to get bored with this one.  I really feel like the 'tension' in the governor storyline was largely played out two or three episodes ago.  If I were writing things, the big showdown would have happened on this past episode and the final two episodes of the season would be about the group reaching some kind of understanding with Woodbury (an understanding that would involve them leaving the prison), wrapping up the loose ends then getting back on the road, ending with a good teaser to set up the beginning of next season.

  Yeah, the Marlin .44 lever I picked up a few months back is an older, microgroove version.  I know because it has 'microgroove' on the barrel.  I've also read about the 'oversize' cast bullets working better in them.  I have also read that the round nose flat point is the best cast bullet 'profile' for them.  That is why I plan to order some of these to load (when I get around to it) :   http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=101&category=5&secondary=12&keywords=   The info says they are cast at .430.  I think 'standard' is .429.  I have even read that some say .431 or so might be even better but I'm not going to sweat it that much - it isn't like I am going to be competition shooting with this thing.  Also, I have read that it makes more of a difference as you get into the somewhat heavier, cast bullets like 300 grain and up.  I will be loading for both the Marlin and my SBH and am not interested in doing 'separate' loads for each.  For that reason, I am more interested in staying mostly in the 240 - 260 grain range with maybe a few 180 grain thrown in just for fun (I'm sure the SBH could handle heavier but I'm not sure I see the point.)  I do have a box of Hornady XTP 300 grainers that I will eventually load but those are jacketed bullets, not cast.   As for Specials being cheaper to shoot than Magnums, I haven't seen any evidence of that wrt factory ammo.  Now, with .38 Special vs. .357 Magnum, that is generally the case.  However, on the rare occasion that I actually see factory .44 Special ammo on a shelf it is generally priced exactly the same as comparable .44 Magnum ammo.  I guess it might cost slightly less to reload .44 Special (as in a little less powder per round) but I don't know that the difference would be all that much.  I will say that .44 Specials are a lot of fun to shoot from my revolver.  I have a box of Remington LRN .44 Specials that my late father got somewhere or another.  I don't remember the weight of the bullet but it seems like it was something a bit 'unusual'.  I looked up current Remington LRN .44 Specials and they are 246 grains but I can't remember if that is the weight of the ones I have or not.  These things might well be as old as me.  Anyhow, I shot a few of them through my SBH and they were a lot of fun - and very accurate.  I haven't tried them through the Marlin, yet.  As for reloading, though, I would bet that I could create something similar with in a Magnum case by just loading to the lower end of the Magnum data.

    I don't know.  Like I said, Amy WAS killed and it took all night and the next day before she turned.   Of course, it could have something to do with the level of exposure to the virus.  When Amy was killed, it didn't look like she had been around all that many walkers, etc. beforehand.  Shane, on the other hand, had been wading hip-deep in them a couple of times before he was killed.

  Personally, I don't see why the majority of the classroom portion couldn't be provided online and free of charge by the State of Tennessee.  They could do it sort of like they do the online portion of the Hunter's Safety Course.    I didn't take the Hunter's Safety Course when I was younger because I was of an age that I could get a license and hunt with my dad without needing it.  By the time I was beyond that age we weren't going hunting so I never got around to it.  A couple of years back, I decided I wanted to take the course but for an adult with a full-time job making time to attend the classes is not easy.  Instead, I took the online course, completed a course exam on there and then went to one of the Saturday morning groups.  We still had to sit through a couple of videos and some classroom time (which didn't make much sense, to me, given that the online course had already covered the same material) and then we took a final test.   I see no reason the entirety of the classroom material required for obtaining an HCP - including videos - couldn't be presented in an online format.  It could be set up so that a 'completed' certificate could be printed but only after all videos had been played, etc.  Then the applicant would sign up for a 'range day' where they would turn in that printed certificate, complete the same written test that we had to take at the end of the class and then complete the range requirement.  Charge $15 to $20 a head to cover the range time and to pay someone to oversee the tests/vet the range qualification and call it good.  Heck, they might even convince some local LE departments to do the second part for free as a 'public outreach/public relations' effort.   If TN is going to require a permit to exercise a right and then require that people pay $115 to apply for a permit to exercise a right then there should at least be a free/inexpensive option to meet the prerequisite class requirements prior to paying $115 to apply for a permit to exercise a right.  Right?

Chuck Norris doesn't shave.  He just orders the beard to get the hell off of his face.

  Also remember that after Andrea's sister (Amy) got bitten and died, Andrea sat on the ground with the body until she reaminated.  Being that the group was eating dinner when the attack happened, it couldn't have been all that late when Amy was killed.  Further, being that the sun was fully up and it appeared to be somewhere around noon when Amy finally did stir, again I would have to guess that Andrea sat there with the body all night and nearly half the next day.  It appeared, then, like it took something like 16 to 18 hours for Amy to reanimate - and that was after she was dead.   Remember, too, that although Jim was eventually burning up with fever, it took some time before that happened.  He helped bury their dead, burn the bodies of the walkers and continued digging graves alone for some time before the group managed an intervention - all before he started showing signs of being sick.   All that said, I don't think that the Governor has been bitten or that he will turn before the conflict with Rick's group.  For the storyline, I think they need to face him as an all too human threat and that he needs to die as a human, however mentally warped, either by the hands of Rick's group or his own people.

I remember seeing an episode of some non-fiction type show - don't even remember what show it was but I don't think it was a 'gun' or 'hunting' themed show - that was set in Alaska.  The setting appeared to be somewhat rural and the regulars hired a couple of guides to help get them where they were going (on snowmobiles.)  The guides carried pistols in holsters mounted to one of the handlebars on their snowmobiles.  Funny thing was, the pistols were Ruger Mk (not sure if they were I, II or III) semiautomatic .22 pistols.  They were apparently of the opinion that if you ran into anything bigger than the .22 could handle then your best bet was to go wide open on the snowmobile and hope for the best.   As for me, I'd want at least an Alaskan in .44 Mag.  Heck, for that matter I have no plans to go to Alaska and I'd still kind of like to have an Alaskan in .44 Mag.

Glad you found some ammo.  Also, I LOVE Walmart.  I can go in there any time, night or day, and shop.  I can get what I need without paying the 'premium' for the 'priveledge' of shopping at some tiny, little place that takes itself far too seriously, during the very limited hours that they deign to be open to allow lowly customers like me to purchase their wares.  Further, I don't have to deal with some smarmy teenager who knows he won't be fired because his granddaddy owns the business or some old fart who acts like I am an idiot just because I don't know as much about the products he sells as he thinks he knows (after selling those products for approximately 125 years or so.)   Okay, I am exaggerating.  There are times that I prefer dealing with a small, local business.  However, there are also times when I prefer dealing with Walmart.  I like buying guns from my favorite LGS.  I like buying ammo that Walmart doesn't sell from my favorite LGS.  I like buying ammo that Walmart does sell (and that I need) from Walmart, largely because it is cheaper.  I am not a rich man so if I can save enough on two or three boxes of ammo to buy another box, that is what I will do.

At some point in the near future, I hope to hear that he has made a complete recovery.  Also, as serious as this injury is, I am glad that it wasn't worse.

  Meh, unless Food City hires me as a security guard I wouldn't do anything unless my life or the life of someone I care about is being threatened, anyhow.  If the bad guys simply take the money from the tills and hit the road, I'd let them.  No skin off my back and probably safer for all concerned.   Of course, if the shooting did start then it probably wouldn't matter if I had my 5 shot j-frame or my Ruger P95 with a couple of 15 round mags.  Two guys, one with a pistol and one with a shotgun, are most likely going to kill or seriously injure me before I can neutralize both of them.  That is just the facts of life.   Likewise, if I find myself facing eight or ten assailants, all armed and determined to do me in regardless of the risk to themselves then it probably won't matter if I have a wheelgun or semi-auto pistol.  Even if all of my shots are hits, one or two of them are going to hit me before I can neutralize all of them.  Honestly, the only difference I perceive would be the number of rounds left in my gun when I get taken down.  Even a pump shotgun might not be enough to save my hide in such a situation and probably nothing short of full auto even has a chance of pulling my fat out of the fire.  Luckily, at least to my knowledge, I haven't pissed off any suicide death squads lately.

To respond without quoting your entire post, Randall53, my point is that it probably doesn't matter whether or not these screwed up individuals play video games all day or never even see one.  If they are going to be maniacal killers, they are going to be maniacal killers.  If they don't play video games then something they see on television will set them off.  If they don't watch television then something they read in English class will set them off - or something they read in the Bible or something they overhear someone saying in Walmart (maybe the smiley face on those 'roll back' signs will talk to them and tell them to kill.)   David Berkowitz killed people because his neighbor had a dog.  Of course in reality Berkowitz killed people because he is a crazy SOB who was, basically, going to find some reason to do so, regardless.  It wouldn't have mattered if his neighbor had a dog, a cat, a parakeet or a pet rock.  Bat-guano crazy is bat-guano crazy, period.   Charles Manson had his followers kill people because The Beatles did a song (Helter Skelter) that is more or less about wanting to make out with some girl who, apparently, isn't a very good dancer.  Of course, in reality Manson had his followers kill people because he is a crazy SOB who believed he was Jesus, Satan and the death angel rolled into one and that he was destined to bring about a great race war.  It wouldn't have mattered if it was a Beatles song, a Rolling Stones song or 'Here We Go 'Round the Mulberry Bush'.  Bat-guano crazy is bat-guano crazy, period.   One of the most famous serial killers, Jack the Ripper, operated before there were video games, movies, Dungeons and Dragons type games or heavy metal music (or any readily recorded music, for that matter.)  You know why he did what he did?  I'm betting it was because he was a crazy SOB who decided that carving up prostitutes would be a real hoot.  Bat-guano crazy is bat-guano crazy, period.   Ed Gein, the sick bastich who provided inspiration for the characters Norman Bates, Leatherface (Texas Chainsaw Massacre) and Buffalo Bill (Silence of the Lambs) committed murders in the late 1950s.  Like the Silence character, he was skinning women (both corpses he dug up and a couple that he killed) in order to try and make himself a woman suit so he could become a woman.  One of the deputies who was part of the initial raid on his home found what he thought was a deer hung up and gutted in an outbuilding.  Upon further observance, however, the deputy realized it was actually his own (the deputy's) mother, who had been missing for a couple of days.  Again, this was before video games, Dungeons and Dragons, heavy metal or movies that would be considered 'graphically violent' by most.  Bat-guano crazy is simply bat-guano crazy.   My point in all this is that I don't even believe that video games, music, etc. are any sort of factor, at all.  The people who are crazy enough to do these things are going to do them, regardless.  Video games, violent movies and even firearms are nothing more than 'garnish' and really have nothing more to do with the end result than the brand of shoes the maniac happens to be wearing when carrying out their particular atrocities.

  Well, then, just as devil's advocate the argument really COULD be made that those same individuals wouldn't be able to act upon their desire to be mass shooters if firearms weren't so readily available.  Personally, I have never heard of anyone murdering a large group of people with a video game.   Honestly, I don't think we need to make scapegoats of video games any more than we make scapegoats of firearms.  Like guns, video games are inanimate objects.  They don't kill anyone and they don't 'cause' anyone to become killers any more than firearms do.  Blaming one inanimate object in order to remove blame from another is simply ridiculous, IMO.   I remember when heavy metal music was supposedly 'causing' people to commit suicide.  Bullcrap.  Mental instability and a desire to kill themselves did that - it was simply easier to blame the music than to accept that the person committing suicide was, somehow, mentally flawed.  I listened to such music (and still do) and I have survived.   I remember when playing Dungeons and Dragons was supposedly 'causing' people to flip out and kill their parents, etc.  Bullcrap.  Mental instability and some deep-seated problems did that - it was simply easier to blame D&D than to accept that the person committing the crime was, somehow, mentally flawed and that there was probably no way of knowing that until he or she committed a crime.  I used to play D&D - along with other RPGs - and have reached the age of 41 without murdering anyone.   Now it is video games and movies that are causing such things.  Bullcrap.  I've played video games for years.  I grew up watching Dirty Harry, Death Wish, The Terminator and so on.  None of those things made me go on a murderous rampage.   Hell, I even survived a childhood full of hearing horrible stories from this really old book about things like a guy who bashed his brother's head in with a rock because he was jealous, a woman who was devoured by dogs (except for the soles of her feet and palms of her hands), a supposedly 'righteous' man who plotted to murder (sacrifice) his own son because the voices in his head told him to do so and a really powerful being that destroyed all life on Earth with the exception of one man and his family.  I got through it all without becoming a raving lunatic - and if graphic, bloody violence like that contained in those stories won't screw someone up then I don't know what will!   People were committing horrible atrocities long before video games came about.  Some people would commit horrible atrocities even if they were never exposed to a single video game, movie, etc.  Heck, people even managed to do pretty horrible things to each other (and themselves) before guns were invented.  I'm not buying that video games have a thing to do with it beyond being a convenient scapegoat to avoid the fact that some people are simply downright bad from the word go.