JAB

In my class, anything 'in the black' counted. It didn't have to be in the circle areas but it did have to be somewhere in the silhouette. Outside the silhouette but still on (white) paper didn't count. I remember reading in other threads on the subject, on TGO, that some folks had instructors who wouldn't count anything outside the X rings. My understanding is that, at least in the past, instructors had to see that their students met at least the TN requirements but the instructor could have additional requirements on top of that. That is why I recommend, if possible, finding out the requirements the specific instructor/range has for qualifying. Those classes cost what, now? $65? $75? More? Even when they were $50 as when I took the class, If I were told that a particular instructor would only accept X ring hits for qualification I would find a different place/instructor from whom to take the class.

I have a problem with this because it sets a precedent of cops suing citizens - citizens who were not breaking the law or abetting criminal activity - for the cop having to do his damn job.  Maybe some people can find a way to 'justify' his actions in this case but it still sets a bad precedent for the future.  It might be different if the dispatcher asked the 911 caller if the guy had been using drugs and she lied and said, "No," but I didn't see anything in the story to indicate this was the case.  Suing her for not mentioning it during a 911 call when she was probably scared and not thinking straight definitely sets a bad precedent.  The average person also does not have the same training to assess a scene and the inherent dangers that I would think a cop has.  The LEO should have assessed things for himself instead of just blithely strolling in, assuming the dispatcher had all the facts.  Further, this guy chose to be a cop.  Cops deal with dangerous people, sometimes.  It is just goes with the territory.  There is a simple way to lessen those risks - find another job.   See, I don't want to go into situations where I may have to deal with violent criminals as part of my job so, therefore, I am not a cop.  If I were a cop, I would have to accept that certain risks go with the job, just like being a fireman, a soldier, etc.  If a person doesn't want to risk injury, maybe they should consider being a CPA or a mattress salesman instead of a cop.  To sue someone because he came up against the risks inherent in being a LEO is ridiculous.

  Yeah, 'cause if an individual does something that makes him look like a jackhole then it is okay to call him a jackhole - unless the jackhole happens to wear a uniform and carry a badge.  Then calling the jackhole a jackhole is 'LEO bashing.'

What in the Hades is that thing?

Would have liked to see the look on his face if you could have gotten out there in time to pick up the bag and throw it back through his car window before he pulled away from the stop sign.   Maybe you should have written, "You dropped this in my yard and I just thought I should return it to you," on the outside of the bag?

I'm guessing the large, metal container has a few inches of water in the bottom to drown the little buggers.  If not, I guess one could take a semi-auto .22 and the bucket o' rodents out into a big, open field, dump the bucket over and see how many of the fleeing varmints they could shoot before they got away.   Or maybe go the 'medieval' route, cut a piece of plywood into a circle to fit down into the metal container, drive several finishing nails through the plywood and place the plywood inside the metal container with the sharp end of the nails pointing 'up'.  (Okay, no, I'm not really serious about the last idea.)

  Sued, hell.  These days the company owners and administration would probably end up in Guantanamo Bay!

What a bunch of BS.  So I guess that, from now on, if someone calls 911 because there is an armed intruder in their home they need to take a minute to caution the perspective responding officers that armed intruders can be dangerous or run the risk of getting sued by officers, part of whose job it is to respond to situations involving dangerous individuals?   For the record, it is also BS that the family would try and sue the officers.

I saw a comment on another article about the same incident that I thought was pretty good.  It said, basically, that this is China we are talking about.  If the government tells the people that this dog is a lion then it is a lion until the government decides otherwise.   Hell, if this had taken place in North Korea not only would the dog have been passed off as a lion but there would be a lengthy article posted in front of the cage about how Kim Jong-un saved a large crowd of people from being mauled and eaten by the lion when he captured it, alone and bare-handed, before donating it to the zoo.

  I used to stop by Gouger Mountain because they had all of their long guns out on the sales floor (tethered to the displays and with trigger locks but on the floor) where I could just pick them up, look them over, get an idea how they felt, etc. and not have to deal with asking to see this or that gun.  I never bought any firearms there because their prices are simply too high.    Also, when I decided to get in to reloading, I would stop by there sometimes to see if they might have some supplies I wanted/needed.  Their reloading supply prices weren't that far outside the 'norm' I saw, elsewhere and - as I work just off of Lovell Road - it was convenient.  In fact, the last small pistol primers I found/bought were from there.  It was right at the very beginning of the current 'shortage' and such primers had become a little scarce, elsewhere.  I bought 1000 Federal Match small pistol primers for just under $40 so not too bad.   Then the Knoxville store changed everything around.  They now keep all the guns - including the long guns - behind the counter.  They have also gotten rid of most of their reloading supplies (and seem to be trying to get rid of what little remains.)  So now I very, very rarely even bother going in there.

  Dangit, now I'm becoming paranoid that I may not be paranoid.

  Me, either, really.  I will say, though, that I went back to the same range the next week and ran through the same 'course of fire' as what we did in the class with the P11 to make sure that I 'could' have passed with it (and, although obviously didn't do quite as well as with the .22, would have easily passed.)  Of course, there is no, official record of that.

  Again, not disputing you, just curious as to how much of a factor that might really be.  Do you know of a case where this issue has come up?  Not being all that familiar with courtroom goings-on, I would think that - unless you somehow got a jury comprised of gun guys/gals - many average jurors would see a .22 and think 'gun', then see a 9mm and think 'gun' and then see a .357 and think 'gun'.  I would further think that those, same jurors would figure that if you were a good enough shot to qualify with one gun then you are probably a good enough shot to qualify with any/every gun (which you and I know may not the case but we are 'gun guys'.)

  For a short time (IIRC, it was a very short time) not only did the make/model/caliber have to be recorded by the instructor but I'm thinking even the serial number of the firearm used.  I seem to remember people discussing it on here when the serial number requirement was put into place and, again, when that requirement was removed.  I took the qualification class in the Summer of 2008 (the actual issue date of my original permit was in August of 2008) and that was during the short time that I believe the instructor was required to record the serial number.  Of course, I have slept since then so it might have just been the make/model he was required to record (although I am pretty sure on the serial number thing, too.)  The instructor was also required to keep the target (I used a cell phone camera to get a couple of pics of it, though.)

  What you are saying makes sense.  However, I don't even still own the gun I carried most when I first got my HCP (a Kel Tec P11)  nor did I own the gun that I now carry the most (a S&W 642) so I don't know that this point would matter in my situation - and I suspect that many others change carry guns over the years.  I am certainly not saying you are 'wrong' and, like I said, your statement makes sense (especially knowing that you teach handgun classes), just pointing out that even qualifying with what you carry at the time doesn't mean you will be carrying what you qualified with a couple of years down the road.

  I'd check with the specific range and instructor to see what their practices are but there is no obstacle under TN state law.

  I think he was pointing out that the OP was asking about famous people who aren't from East Tennessee but live here, now.  Dolly is from East Tennessee.  I have a second cousin who went to school with her.  She first got her start on The Cas Walker show, unless I am mistaken.

  His parents-in-law own Cowboy's Seafood (at least I think they still own it.)

  Ah, then I definitely stand corrected.

Not only can you qualify with any gun and then carry any gun but you don't even have to own a gun to qualify for an HCP.  There are people who qualify with borrowed guns or even 'loaner' range guns from the place where they take the class.  In fact, at least the last time I read it, TN state law is written that (with an HCP) you can carry any handgun that is legally in your possession.  I take that to mean you could even carry a borrowed gun.  I have even heard of folks who have little to no experience with firearms but who are thinking of getting a gun and who take the class before even looking at guns just as sort of an 'introduction' to firearms and shooting.   Some people believe you should qualify with whatever gun you will carry.  Personally, being already a bit annoyed that I was paying (at the time) $50 for a class and then $115 nonrefundable to even apply to exercise a Constitutional right and being that I didn't know what to expect, I used my 5.5 inch barreled S&W 22A.  When we finished and the instructor told us to count up the number of hits in the black to make sure we passed, he walked by me and said not to even bother counting because I had obviously passed.   When my mom carries, it is usually her Kel Tec P32 but she passed the qualification with her Hi Point 9mm.  By then, I had taken my test and took her to the range to run her through what we had done to qualify so, since she was more familiar with her Hi Point than any .22, she used it (and, apparently, shot the best of anyone in her class.)   My estranged wife also carries a P32 (when she carries) but didn't have it at the time she took the class.  Again, I took her to the range and ran through what she could expect.  I offered to let her use one of my guns but we couldn't find one of them that she was comfortable with so she used a snub-nosed Rossi .357 that belonged to her late father (loaded with .38 Specials) to qualify.   So, the two take-aways:   1. You can qualify with any handgun and then carry any handgun and 2. unless the individual instructor throws in some curveballs or extra requirements, it ain't all that difficult to qualify if you practice shooting, at all.

  It does kind of look like what one might expect of a miniature 'Dunwich Horror', doesn't it?

To be honest, I would first invent a few, new cursewords to yell.  After that, if I hadn't yet realized what was going on, I would be torn between running like my hair was on fire and my ass was catching and the thoughts of how much $$$ I could make if I shot the 'monster' and kept its body as undeniable proof that monsters do, indeed, exist.

  Good to know.  You won't have to worry about me on that one - I don't 'hunt' them, even on my private property.

  Ah.  I have never, personally, seen a timber rattler in the wild.  I know they technically live in my area and I know one or two people who say they have seen them (even then, they have usually only seen a rattler once in this area) but I don't even generally think about them when talking about venomous snakes.  Copperheads, on the other hand, are a whole, 'nother issue.  Last year, my BIL (remember, my sister and her family are my neighbors on one side) had multiple occasions (at least three of which I am aware) where he had to deal with copperheads in their yard - where their kids play - in close proximity to their front porch.  The folks that live just up the hill from us have had at least two occasions where copperheads were in their yards this year.  Now, like I said, I don't hunt the things - I don't even go looking for them in the woods on our property - but one hanging around my yard is a different matter.   As for 'looking for food', well, the raccoon that recently killed my last hen was just looking for food, too.  That fact didn't earn it a pass, either.  In fact, speaking of chickens, I still have to wonder if at least some of the birds I lost this summer (two hens and a rooster) weren't lost to a copperhead.  I say that because two were found dead at the same time and one other was injured and succumbed that evening or the next day.  There was no, obvious trauma to any of them to suggest they had been attacked or had been fighting amongst themselves (even though the one that died later was limping and sort of dragging one wing before she died) and none of them were even partially eaten.  I would have thought a 'coon would try to drag them off or at least eat part of them on site.     Comparing to the loss of my last hen - which I know to have been due to a raccoon - there are several discrepancies.  With the known 'coon kill, there were feathers everywhere and the carcass was half eaten.  Also, although it was the next night after killing/partially eating it, the 'coon came back to carry off the rest  (returning to drag off the remains of the carcass is what got that 'coon caught.)  The one known to have been killed by a 'coon was also in the fenced in 'run' area when it was killed.  The others were found dead near the 'nest' where the hens laid their eggs.  For these reasons, I still am not convinced that it wasn't a copperhead - maybe one that was just looking for food (i.e. stealing eggs) - that killed those three and not the same 'coon that killed the others.

Well, I'd say that is a good start to a skull breaker. If you are going to call it the 'Flatwoods Forge' skull breaker, though, it is gonna need something from the forge as part of the whole package. How about forging up some large 'hob nail' type things to stud about 10 inches of the business end with?