JAB

To me, the winner would depend on the type of vampire. If they chose the modern, whiney vampire that just wants to lay around and lament his/her undead condition then I'd have to go with the zombies. In fact, I'd be rooting for the zombies. If they chose the type of vampire I like to read/watch movies about - the kind that is ruthless (even when they are the protagonist of the story) and that kind of likes not getting older, not being susceptible to disease and generally being a bad ass then I'd have to go with the vamp. Of course, there is a creature in literature and some folktales that is akin to both. They are called revenants and were originally depicted as corpses that return to 'life' and often terrorize the family/firends of the deceased. Some versions, however, depict them as having nothing human left. In the latter version they are often mindless, bloodthirsty, bestial undead creatures with an insatiable hunger for blood/flesh that are actually more like modern 'zombies' than the original zombies from voodoo legend, etc. or the original tales of revenants, for that matter.

I agree 100%. In fact, IMO, the use of the word was quite appropriate. By continuing to attempt to use her position of 'authority' to force him to answer a question that she had no right to demand he answer, this woman stepped out of her role as 'teacher'. The use of the word 'damn', then, placed the kind of emphasis on his refusal that another word would not have placed and underscored that he was a citizen, with rights, refusing to answer a question asked of him by another citizen - of equal standing - and not by any authority that she might have vested in her as a 'teacher'. To me, she gave up any right to expect 'respect' as a teacher/authority figure the moment she tried to force him to answer the question. My feeling is that, at that point, she had already nullified the student/teacher aspect of their relationship and became one person trying to coerce information out of another without proper authority or authorization. It really was none of her damned business.

I thought it was all about juxtapositioning. The cat is small, furry and cute. However... "The fork is a cold, shiny tool to pierce, tear and ingest." Apologies to Jello Biafra.

My first gen P3AT, bought NIB years ago, was never reliable. I tried fixing the problems, myself, but when the hammer spring broke I finally sent it back. I had owned it for probably five years or so at that point but hadn't shot it much until I got my HCP so I hadn't realized, early on, how many problems it had. Kel Tec, without question, built me a new, second gen gun on my old frame. In fact, as far as I can tell from the work order they sent back with it, the frame is the only thing they didn't replace. It has been 100% with nary a hiccup since. When I sent it back, I was about 95% sure I'd trade it when it came back to me. Since it was already technically a 'used' gun, though, I decided to try it out and at least give it a final chance. Now I love the little thing and it isn't going anywhere. It is now obvious to me that I got a total lemon. Kel Tec made it right, though and I don't think such 'lemons' are anywhere near as common as they might have been with the early (especially the early first gen) P3ATs. Be aware, however, that Kel Tec has recently announced that they will be honoring their warranty only for the original owner of their products. That has been their policy all along but in practice they have extended warranty coverage even to those who bought their products used. Just something to consider if you are weighing buying a used gun against buying a new one.

Ah, well if you can carry a full-size IWB then that is likely true. I can't do IWB - the closest I can get is my P3AT in a belly band worn a little low so the grips are positioned just above my waistline. I've tried a few, different IWB setups from a cheapo Uncle Mikes for the P11 I used to have to a homemade kydex/leather hybrid holster (Crossbreed type) I made for my CZ82. No go. I can't even stand carrying my NAA mini IWB!

Well, then, congrats on the new gun you actually got. My favorite LGS is Farnsworth's in Vonore but I have been to Frontier a few times. Mostly I've bought ammo/accessories from them (in their old store, for the most part - I've only been to their new location twice) but Frontier is where my P3AT came from, years ago. My mom bought a CZ82 there. Oh, for a cheap 'range holster', I've heard (as in I have no direct, personal experience) that the nylon Crosman holster that Walmart sells (made for Crosman air pistols) is just about a perfect fit for the C9. IIRC, those actually have a retention strap so they might not be bad for range use or for carry around the yard, depending on how securely it holds.

That was exactly what I thought of when I saw the pic. Then I thought of the one in The Road Warrior. Pretty cool.

I bought a used P11 and eventually got to the point that I could shoot it pretty well. Mine worked well and I liked it once I got used to it and learned how to shoot it (by the time I bought the P11, I already owned three semiauto pistols - including a Kel Tec P3AT - and two revolvers and shooting the P11 wasn't like any of them.) Mine eventually started having some problems (probably age/wear related.) That was before Kel Tec's recent decision to actually follow their stated policy and only honor the warranty for the original owner so it got sent back. I ended up with a brand new gun for a replacement which was different enough from my original that I never got used to it. Even using the 'tricks' I had learned with my first one I could never shoot it well and ended up trading it for a Ruger P95. I say that not to scare you off from the P11 - I do think they are good guns - but simply to let you know a little of what to expect. The trigger on them is long and pretty heavy. In fact, the first time I let my brother in law (who has plenty of firearms experience but had no experience with a P11) shoot mine, he tried to pull the trigger then stopped and started looking for a manual safety. The P11 has no manual safety but the trigger is so stiff that he thought there was one and that it was engaged. To me, the P11 trigger is longer/heavier than the majority of double-action revolvers I have fired. One thing that might help if you are having trouble hitting your target when you first start out with the P11 is to try using a 'triangle' sight picture in which the front sight is aligned in the center of but slightly above the rear sights rather than completely centered as you would normally expect. That is what I finally learned to do with mine and have read of other P11 owners who have success with the same (I did mention that shooting mine wasn't like shooting any other handgun I own or have owned, right?) Of course, at close range you'd probably be doing more point shooting or front sight shooting than carefully sighted shooting and the P11 works just fine for that. Some people have a good bit of trouble with limpwristing when it comes to the P11. That was one problem I never had with mine but some folks do. In fact, Kel Tec used to produce a .40 caliber version of the same gun and supposedly the reason they stopped was that it was costing them too much time/money/effort because so many guns that weren't 'broken' were being sent in for repair because shooters were limpwristing them. Again, I am not trying to make you regret your purchase and I really do think that they are good guns for shooters that they 'fit'. Many, many folks on the Kel Tec forum to which I belong seem to love theirs. Once I gained familiarity with it, I really liked my first one and carried it a lot until it started having troubles. If I had been able to get used to the second one the way I did the first one (and there really was that much difference between the two) then I'd still have it and carry it. I don't even think that there was anything 'wrong' with the second one, I just didn't think I'd ever be able to shoot that, particular pistol very well. Oh, and in case you didn't know, the P11 usually comes with a 10 round magazine but Kel-Tec offers a 12 round, flush-fit 'factory' mag (made by MecGar - the same company that makes the ten rounders.) Also, there are some series of Smith and Wesson 15 round mags that work in the P11. Those mags protrude from the mag well and Kel Tec offers a 'spacer' that fills in the space between the grip and bottom of the mag, extending the grip. The problem with that (as a carry mag), however, is that it makes the grip so long that it pretty well defeats the purpose of carrying a compact pistol in the first place. I had one of those S&W 15 rounders (I wish I could remember which series work for the P11 but I don't, right now) and it made a pretty good backup mag as well as making the P11 more fun for shooting paper. I did replace the factory floorplate on one or two of my flush-fit mags with the 'pinky hook' grip extender and liked that a good bit. I also put a Hogue Handall slip-on grip sleeve on mine and liked that, too, but YMMV. The 115 grain Winchester White Box FMJ from Walmart (which I assume is the same ammo you have been shooting in that HiPoint) worked well with both of my P11s. The Remington UMC 115 grain JHP that Walmart sells (or at least used to sell) worked well in it, too, and was actually what I mostly used for carry ammo (I'm now using PDX1 +P in my Ruger but didn't want to use +P in the P11.) In fact, I don't remember trying any ammo that didn't at least function except when my first one started having issues. Just keep in mind that Kel Tec says that use of +P ammo in the P11 should be 'limited' (although they don't give a number range to say what 'limited' means) and that steel or aluminum cased ammo shouldn't be used in their products.

Unless I am mistaken, some states require that spent casing to be sent to one or another law enforcement agency by the firearms dealer when the gun is sold to a customer. I think that is to have a spent casing for comparison if it is ever suspected that the gun was used in a crime. I could be wrong, however. Tennessee has no such requirement so the spent casing simply gets left with the gun.

FWIW, in my 642 the Winchester White Box +P JHP ammo kicks like a young mule but Winchester's PDX1 +P, which is what I actually carry in it, is surprisingly pleasant to shoot. So far, though, I've only tested the PDX1 for function and accuracy. I need to informally (as in water jugs) test it for penetration and expansion but I don't doubt that it will do its job if called upon. One other thing you may want to know - my five-round HKS speedloader doesn't work very well with the factory grips on my 642. The grips are just a little too thick in the area where the speedloader needs to be. Not that big a deal, really as the Bianchi speed strips work great and are easier to carry. I know some folks take the Dremel to the grips on various small revolvers to modify them to work with speedloaders but it really isn't worth it, to me.

As I said earlier, I also consider a 4 inch .38 Special a great candidate for a first gun. Problem is that .38 ammo has been slowly climbing, lately. All ammo has gone up in price but .38 seems to have especially increased. In the last year or two I have seen it go from around fourteen bucks a box to sixteen bucks a box and now even some Walmart locations around here have the Winchester White Box and Remington UMC FMJ target stuff up to around $18 a box. That is still not bad compared to some ammo prices but Federal 9mm 115 grain FMJ is around eleven bucks a box and the cheapo TulAmmo is less than that. Based on that, it seems that someone could almost buy 100 rounds of 9mm for what 50 rounds of .38 would cost. I still prefer revolvers to semiautos but I haven't been shooting my .38s as much, lately. I've really got to get set up for reloading even if I only ever reload .38s and maybe .44s.

We have wild turkeys around our yard every year. In fact, I took this picture in the yard a few years back (that's my chicken coop in the upper left of the picture.) I was outside and this one just walked by. I think they are attracted to our pond. You can see how hard it would be for me to bag a hen. I could just about have thrown a big rock and killed this one: I also have pics of about 30 of them parading through the yard that I took from the back porch last year but apparently didn't put them on photobucket. I rarely see toms, though, only hens and their young. I actually enjoy seeing them, especially keeping in mind that they were Ben Franklin's choice for our national bird - but wouldn't mind eating one or two every now and then. I'd probably have a pretty good chance of bagging a few, too. But Loudon isn't listed in the tables for Fall hunting/either sex. Of course not. Unless I am mistaken, only bearded turkeys can be taken in the Spring season and I rarely (as in almost never) see adult toms/bearded turkeys - just big groups of hens and (in the summer/fall) their young. I know there must be some toms in our area because of all the young that show up but I think there are only a few of them that service all the hens. In fact, last year in a field across the road I counted nearly 100 turkeys in a huge group (before I gave up and quit counting) and from what I could see there were only one or two that were obviously toms.

Again, like my P3AT, my 642 OWB in a FOBUS disappears almost as well as in my pocket while (at least in some situations) being more readily accessible. The P3AT hides a little better with that setup but the 642 also conceals well when carried in that manner. To each his or her own but for that reason OWB even with small handguns makes sense to me when carrying a larger gun isn't as viable an option - at least in certain situations. Something like a belt slide or pancake holster that holds tighter to the body would probably hide them even better.

Not to mention that signs forbidding the legal carry of handguns will certainly stop maniacs with rifles from committing murder.

You can get plenty of gun for a price in the neighborhood of $300. My carry rotation includes a Ruger P95 in 9mm Luger ($299 +tax used was on the price tag but I swapped even for a Kel Tec P11 I had, price of TICS was included in the deal - would IMO make a great first handgun), a Kel Tec P3AT in .380 (was a good bit less than $300 NIB but I bought mine several years ago - probably not the best choice as a first handgun), a CZ82 in 9mm Makarov (great condition for $199 and would, IMO, not be a bad choice for a first handgun but ammo isn't quite as easy to find as 9mm Luger, especially in JHP) and a S&W 642 in .38+P (great little revolver but again, not a gun I would recommend as a first handgun.) NIB at $399 + tax and TICS makes the S&W the only handgun in my main carry rotation with a before tax sticker price of more than $300 and I never find anything like the great deals some guys on here and other forums find. I don't hesitate to trust any of my carry guns to defend the lives of myself and my wife. In fact, I like the P95 well enough that I have two. The first (which was the third handgun I owned and the second in a 'serious' caliber) was something of a wedding present from my grandfather in law. I didn't want to carry it so I got another with no 'sentimental' attachment for carry when I decided that the P11 wasn't for me. As to HiPoint pistols, at one point the only gun my mom had for HD was a jam prone .22 rifle. I wanted to get her into some type of handgun (her physical condition is making shotguns increasingly difficult for her to shoot well.) She has lifelong experience with firearms but most of her previous handgun experience was with little semiautos chambered in minor calibers (.22, .25 mostly.) I am still a revolver guy at heart but she prefers the way semiautos fit her hand, etc. so I hoped to get her in to something in a 9mm. Not knowing if she would like the caliber or not, I decided to get her a HiPoint 9mm as a 'starter' handgun. I figured that she could trade it for something 'better' if she liked the 9mm. She ended up loving the pistol and qualified for her HCP with it because she shot it better than the S&W 22A I offered to let her use for that purpose. It really is a good, reliable and reasonably accurate pistol. Personally I wouldn't choose it for carry as long as I had other options because of the bulk, etc. and the fact that I don't like striker fired guns for carry (just a personal preference.) In fact, she doesn't carry hers and prefers a little Kel Tec P32 for that. That said, I would feel just fine with one lying on a nightstand for HD. Having a .22 handgun for practice and just plain fun is a good idea. That said, I am going to go against the grain here and say that (in my very much non-expert, nonprofessional opinion) if I could only budget to have one handgun for some period of time I'd probably go for a 9mm. The reasons I say this: 1. 9mm ammo is the least expensive of the common, centerfire handgun calibers. It isn't as inexpensive as .22LR by a long shot but you probably aren't going to break the bank shooting it, either. 2. 9mm (IMO) is plenty serviceable as a defensive pistol, especially when loaded with good, modern SD ammo. 3. In a reasonably sized handgun (as in not a flyweight supercompact) 9mm recoil is controllable and generally not punishing to the shooter. My first handgun was a very small Titan .25 acp. It was actually a fun little gun to shoot and was surprisingly reliable. Maybe it kind of filled the role of 'learning with a .22' for me but I never shot it all that much so I don't think that is the case. After that, I owned a 4-inch barreled Colt Police Positive in .38 Special (a 4-inch .38 Special revolver is also a good learning platform, IMO but .38 Special ammo costs a few bucks more per box than 9mm these days) a Ruger P95 and a Kel Tec P3AT before I finally broke down and bought the 22A just so I could get less expensive trigger time. I don't claim to be a crack shot - I consider my shooting to be 'serviceable' - but I don't feel that I 'missed out' on anything by not having a .22 handgun first.

Two sides of the same plug nickel.

Just to throw it out there, the little 380s are small enough that they hide OWB really easily. My P3AT in a relatively cheap FOBUS disappears under just a t-shirt. Except in a very few situations, it is just as concealed that way as in my pocket (although I don't like back pocket carry so I carry in my front pocket when I pocket carry.) With certain pants (i.e. depending on the pockets) I can also get to it more quickly and easily - especially when sitting. In fact, just as a general rule, I prefer it to pocket carry for that reason - and since I can't stand IWB, it still hides much better than a bigger gun in t-shirt and shorts weather.

There are some funny comments on this thread but that is my favorite! I'm still laughing! There once was a man from old Chi-town Whose fight with his ex-wife got him real down But get revenge, he was able Yanked off his head with a cable And burned his trailer to make a statement most profound. Or... There once was was a man from old Chi-town Whose fight with his ex-wife got him real down He sat his trailer on fire Yanked off his head with a wire And became a Darwin award winner, hands down.

I don't remember it being scary in that area until the 1980s. Sure, you had urban crime like radios being stolen from cars, etc. and the neighborhood over near Austin-East (a few blocks away) was rough but I was never scared on East Fifth as a kid. Maybe I was just too young to know better. As I recall, it started getting really bad in the '80s when the criminal element that used to hang out in the more or less abandoned area where the World's Fair took place got run out of that area (but not out of Knoxville) so that the World's Fair site could be built. I think that is pretty much what drove the final nail in the coffin of downtown Knoxville, at the time, as well. Now, by the time I lived there (beginning in the early 1990s) it was definitely not such a nice place. In fact, when I first moved there the only handgun I had was a Titan .25. My buddy who worked security at the zoo, at the time, found out that all I had was a .25 and his dad (who had broken his neck and, although he eventually could walk around the house a little, wasn't ever going to be able to shoot, again) gave me a good price on a Colt Police Positive .38 Special (made in '76 from what I can find) that is one of my most cherished handguns and was my first 'serious' caliber handgun. They weren't really 'looking' to sell it but figured that I needed it worse than they did. That's the gun I used to change those three dudes' minds when they were trying to break in our front door. Now I'm going to hi-jack my own thread. This is for barbecue, however, so it is important. With regard to Scruggs - I used to think they had some of the best ribs, period. They were meaty, smoky and just plain good. Their barbecue pork sandwiches were none too shabby, either. In fact, I'd put Scruggs at their peak up against any barbecue in Knoxville (including local favorite M&M) and most likely choose Scruggs. Last time I went there, however, (which was three or four years ago, I guess) I was pretty disappointed. Haven't been back to see if they had just gone downhill or if they were simply having an 'off' day. Have you been there, recently? Was it good? Also, ever been to Dixon's, which is more or less across the street from Scruggs? In all the time my grandmother lived there and the decade plus that I lived there, I never ate at Dixons. I guess I just liked Scruggs too much to stray. Never went to Mary's Tamales, either, although I always intended to. My favorite places on Magnolia were Scruggs and Philippine Connection. I never really got all the hubbub over Pizza Palace (it isn't bad but I've had better) and thought that Tic Toc Barbecue (which has been gone for years but used to have a loyal following) was just okay.

Like most here, I think the HCP 'badges' are laughable, at best. However, the sad thing is that in this, particular circumstance your statement (although probably intended as sarcasm) is most likely correct. If he had been wearing one of those stupid badges then the Nervous Nellys who had to decide whether to clean out their shorts before or after calling the cops likely wouldn't have given him a second glance. I do think it probably displays a lack of foresight to walk near a school with an openly carried firearm. Further, I don't routinely OC because I don't want to set the sheep off on a stampede. I also don't agree with the idea that more people OCing will somehow make the ninnies feel better about it any more than seeing 100 spiders would make someone with an irrational fear of arachnids feel better. That said, I have to agree with mikegideon in his opinion that more and more people in our society seem primed to panic and overreact about anything and everything and it is getting old.

I thought there was a push to replace most of the handguns used by those occupations with PDWs like the FN P90. As I said earlier, though, I am not a military guy and was going just on what I had heard/read.

I have one even stranger than that - the absolute best shooting I have done with just about any handgun I have ever fired is almost always the first mag/cylinder full I put through it. I have actually sometimes amazed myself with how good a shot I could (potentially) be. Then I load up a second time, everything goes back to my normal (which is to say not as good) shooting and I spend months/years trying to shoot the same gun as well as I did that very first time. I am not a great shot - I'd say my shooting is 'serviceable' but that is exactly what I was going to recommend. I enjoy shooting (or shooting at, as is the case, sometimes) eight inch 'bullseye' targets and I do think they help build accuracy even for SD type shooting. That said, IMO nothing tells me where my shots would fall in an SD situation like a B27 (human silhouette) target. There are also some pretty inexpensive paper targets at WalMart that have a bigger target area (I think it is a 10 inch target) on a larger piece of paper (iirc, the paper, itself is 12 by 12.) I have used those in the past, shooting from about ten yards, to figure out how badly I am off so I could correct my grip or aim, zero in adjustable sights or whatever.

The following picture was taken when someone on another forum to which I belong was concerned about concealment. Of course, a lot depends on your body type. I can't carry IWB but as you can see here, it isn't really that much of a problem. If it is too warm to wear a cover shirt, etc. I go with pocket carry with either my P3AT or 642. Now, I don't usually carry this, particular revolver (it is a Taurus 66 with a four inch barrel) except when I am fishing/camping. I put it on for this pic just to show what is possible even in a cheap OWB Fobus paddle holster. I also don't carry the P3AT w/spare mag as a backup - if I am carrying it in my pocket then it is my primary. If it is playing BUG then it is in an ankle holster. Again, this was just to show what can be concealed. All this stuff was on me when the pic was taken: Man, it must have been longer than I realized since that pic was taken. I have since re-done the homemade pocket holster (got rid of the 'retention' strip, removed the stitching and re-stitched the holster with the rough side out.) I think I've lost some weight since then, too (not much but maybe a little.)

I have a 995 with the old style stock. The only problem I have ever had was when trying to get rid of a box of WWB 147 grainers (I bought them before I knew better) by firing them through the Hi-Point. It seems they were a little too long to reliably feed - at least in mine. It did load/shoot them but every round or two they'd get hung up on the ramp and I'd have to jiggle the charging handle a little to get them to load on in. Other than that, it has fired everything I have put in it. That includes some ammo I bought that was just in a white box with '9mm Parabellum 115 grain' printed on it. That stuff had some seriously hard primers (had red around the primer so might have even been intended for use as SMG ammo for all I know - again, I bought them before I knew much about 9mm, in general.) My Ruger P95 even required a second strike on several of those to get them to fire but the 995 ate them like candy. UncleJak, am I seeing an extended mag in the photo? I'd heard that ProMag made extended mags but that they don't work very well. There is also some rumor that HiPoint (which has traditionally said they would never do an extended mag) might be working on one but I don't think it has hit the market, yet. I'll be interested to hear how that mag works because I think that ammo capacity is the major drawback for the 995 (even though it holds as many rounds as my SKS.) The major reason I am considering swapping my old style stock out for the new style is that HiPoint makes a spare mag holder that attaches in the skeletized portion of the stock - you can mount one per side. I like the look/idea of that spare mag setup.

From their response: So I guess Maine doesn't believe in the concept of innocent until (and unless) proven guilty, huh? It is sad that so many states in the Northeast portion of our country - where the groundwork for our freedoms and our liberty was laid - seem hell bent on trying to take those freedoms and that liberty away from their citizens.