JAB

Yep. In fact, longer than 2000 years. The first evidence of interpersonal violence among humans/hominids is in the prehistoric fossil record. In other words, it didn't take long for Ug to figure out that a stone hammer that would break other rocks would do a pretty good job on Gack's skull, too.

No. There is only one way to vote for Obama and that is to vote for Obama. Now, there will be at least two ways to vote for more of the same. One will be called the Democrat candidate and the other will be called the Republican candidate.

Just as it is senseless to virtually guarantee that we will be further screwed by one of the 'big two' by voting for one party's pick or the other. I'll vote but I probably won't vote for either party candidate. Hell, I can say for certain that I won't vote for Obama.

Yep. What the article actually states is: This definitely sounds to me like a case of a crooked cop. Further, my immediate 'gut reaction' is that there was nothing 'innocent' about his intentions in getting that gun. If Ms. Lewis had gone along with the scheme then Fowler would have ended up with a perfect gun for a 'throwaway' or for planting on a 'suspect'. My money says he would have later altered the paperwork so that there would be no record of the serial number - or maybe even no record of the firearm, at all. Or maybe there is a 'body' on that gun and someone wanted him to make it disappear before anyone looked too hard at it. IOW, because he was putting so much effort into getting the gun and taking so much risk to do so, I think he had something specific and illegal planned for that Jennings.

Like I said, hook, line and sinker. Gingrich has voted for gun control measures in the past. Dubya stated that if Congress would send him another AWB ban he would sign it and not let the ban expire - it only expired because Congress didn't act. The White House, under Bush, came down firmly against the right of the people to keep and bear arms in entering 'friend of the court' documents in the Heller case. They paid lip service to the idea of an 'individual right' (just as Obama does) but asked that the court carefully rule so as not to endanger any of the (Unconstitutional) Federal laws already on the books or in the future - just as Obama certainly would. Even the lord high almighty of all Republicans, Ronald Reagan, supported the Brady bunch. Some might say that he was old and senile by then but the same Reagan is largely responsible for the sorry state of gun laws in California (due to gun laws that were enacted, with his full support, while he was Governor of the state.) None of the 'establishment' politicians are on our side because firearms represent our last line of defense against the establishment overstepping its bounds. None of them want to see the issue 'settled' one way or the other because stirring it up gets too many votes on both sides of the issue. Notice that the Supreme Court has been carefully wishy-washy in the recent decisions involving gun rights - that is because neither side WANTS a definitive answer. I doubt that will change regardless of which establishment lawyers are appointed to those positions. Politicians on both sides of the aisle simply use the issue to try and play to one side or the other but neither is interested in really seeing the Second Amendment have any strength.

I use belts I buy at the Dickies outlet (I go to the one in the blue mall in Sevierville - if it is still there, I heard the blue mall changed owners.) The kind I use are leather and have two 'tines' in the buckle and two rows of holes in the belt. I have seen similar ones at Walmart but they are not the same - they are more 'flimsy' than the ones I get at the actual Dickies outlet. They cost something like $10 or $12 a piece. I have one on, now, that I have been wearing virtually every day for about a year and a half. When I belt carry, it is OWB and this is the belt I use. I might have to have a new one in the next, few months because it will eventually 'break in' and might start to sag (will still work fine as a regular belt but might not hold my gun up as well.) Luckily, the last time I went up there I bought two or three extras. One of these days I want to make a leather belt for carry. I plan to make it a 'reinforced' (as in at least two layers of leather in the 'load bearing' areas) but these Dickies belts work fine, for now.

In my case, I have come to see not 'the lesser of two evils' but, instead, two sides of the same, plug nickel. Republicans vs. Democrats has become like watching professional freaking wrestling - it is all for show and as long as the 'party' candidate for either side gets elected the same people rake in the money (and power) regardless who is wearing the Championship belt. The guy who is cast in the role of 'heel' this week will make a statement or two in the middle of the squared circle (or behind the podium) and be the 'good guy' in a couple of weeks - and vice versa. It is all a load of bull**** put on to appease the masses - who buy it hook, line and sinker and hold up signs proclaiming that their guy is going to whoop the other guy when Wrestlemania 2012 comes to town. Of late, there has been no 'lesser evil' among the big two - just two politicians who will screw us and the country in different ways but each equally as badly in his own way. Dubya screwed this country. Obama has screwed this country. If re-elected, Obama will continue to screw the country. If elected, Romney or Gingrich will screw the country in their own way. They are all part of a system that has long since failed. Why in the hell would we want to vote for more of the same on either side of the aisle?

When they are in stock, I have seen NEF Pardner Pump shotguns at Walmart for less than two hundred bucks. Usually the ones I have seen were 12 gauge but they can probably order a 20 for you. Even better, you might check and see what kind of price you might get on one at an LGS. I don't own one but have heard that they are good guns. I have also seen 20 gauge Maverick pump shotguns at Walmart. Field length, ribbed barrel and black, plastic furniture. These are Mossberg's 'budget' line guns and, except for a few differences, are basically a Mossberg 500. My HD shotgun is a Maverick Security model in 12 gauge (came with a 20 inch barrel and factory extended tube) and I have zero complaints about it. Wally World's price on them usually hovers somewhere around the $200 mark. Again, I'd also see what a local LGS could get one for and I would also check at Academy if there is one near you. As far as pawnshops, these guys must know of some that I don't - which is entirely possible. Every, single gun I have ever seen at a pawnshop was way overpriced. Every pawnshop I have ever set foot in (well, every one that had them for sale, anyhow) has wanted as much for their beat-up, rough looking single shot shotguns as you'd pay for a brand new one at Walmart (and I'm not talking about some kind of 'collectible' guns.) Every pawnshop I have ever been in seems to think that all firearms come with barrels lined in pure gold or something with prices so inflated that haggling seemed pointless because even a 'haggled' price was still going to be too high. One other thing to keep in mind is that single shots will often (although maybe not always) have more felt recoil than a pump, etc. The nice thing about singles is that they are handy, simple and generally relatively lightweight for carrying around. The lightweight factor means that they can have a kick to them. For example, I have an old Stevens 94c single shot 20 gauge that I bought at a gun show a year or two back. Now, I can shoot a box full of shells through a 12 gauge pump with no ill effects. In fact, I am a person who really can't understand why some folks think a Mosin-Nagant 'kicks' hard - I find it to be fairly mild. That 20 gauge - especially if I am dumb enough to try and run one ounce loads (specifically, some Federal 2 3/4 inch 5 shot I had on hand) through it - is painful after about the second shot. In fact, with that load I would rate it as being WORSE than my BIL's 10 gauge over/under loaded with 3.5 inch magnum goose loads. One final thought - there are 'reduced recoil' loads available for 12 gauge. Some SD/HD buckshot loads are 'reduced recoil'. I have no real experience with those (I am a cheapskate so my 00 Buckshot load comes in the Remington bulk pack from Walmart - patterns fine from my shotgun) but have been told that the recoil is no worse than 20 gauge. That ammo might cost a little more but would probably still be cheaper than buying another gun and ammo for it. Of course, if you are just wanting to buy a new gun...

That is pretty much what I got from the articles I read about her stepping down. It seems she wasn't super popular during the last election but her courage and fortitude in the aftermath of the tragedy have brought her such respect and good will that she would likely have won re-election in a landslide had she chosen to run again. There were also some things said by her and/or her 'people' that led to speculation that, if she recovers enough to be able, she plans to return to the public sector (politics?) one day - but not in the near future.

And it is also why the 'one who is most likely to win' is the 'one who is most likely to win' - because people believe the nonsense that they should vote for 'the one most likely to win.' It doesn't have to be a forgone conclusion but, because people buy the story, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And I have the right to control who and what goes in and out of my property, i.e. my vehicle. A business owner's rights should not trump my property owner's rights. If a firearm or whatever else comes out of my car while in the employer's parking lot THEN their right to control what is on their property kicks in. As long as it stays in my car then it is bounded by MY property, regardless of where the car is parked.

In college, one of my classmates had some damage to her vehicle in a Walmart parking lot because the store failed to wrangle their carts. She went to the manager and politely asked what kind of arrangement they could work out to get Walmart to pay part of the cost for fixing the damage. There was no argument that the damage took place in their lot but the manager simply replied that they have signs in their parking lot declaring that Walmart is not responsible for damages due to carts, etc. She took them to court and the judge ruled that Walmart was responsible for the damages and had to pay 100% of repairing her car. The Walmart lawyers argued that the sign made them exempt and the judge responded, basically, that it didn't matter what their sign said because posting something on a sign doesn't make it legally binding. This wasn't just her story of how the case turned out - the class I had with her was a linguistics class called Language and the Law so she brought a video of the court proceedings in and we viewed part of it in class. So, I say again, a business (employer) can put up a sign declaring whatever the business (employer) wants to declare - that doesn't make the sign valid.

The thing is, great-grandpappy's home was equipped for living without electricity. He (or great-grandmammy, anyhow) cooked with a wood stove. They had light sources that didn't require electricity. Heck, for that matter they had non-electrical equipment for getting done whatever they needed to get done. When I was a kid (living at my parent's house which is next door to where I live, now) the electricity would go off every time a squirrel pissed on the lines. Seriously - we'd have power outages on nice, clear, summer days. Of course, outages on those days were no big deal because we could just go outside. The pain was that if we had an outage due to a thunderstorm when we couldn't go outside. The real pain was that if there were snow or an ice storm (yeah, there were a couple of freakish ice storms in East Tennessee back in the '80s for those who weren't aware) we could be without electricity for two or three days in conditions that certainly didn't allow us to stay outside very much. We did fine, though, because at the time we had a wood heater that kept the house warm and that mom could cook on. We also had several oil/kerosene lamps so we had light and could read a book and so on. Basically, during those outages we lived like great-great-grandpappy did - and it sucked. I mean, I know I could do it but I'd just as soon not have to. Eventually, my parents had central air and heat installed so my mom no longer has the wood heater as a heating/cooking option. She still has plenty of oil/kerosene lamps and I have one at my place, too, but a small, electric lamp run from a battery backup seems a lot less likely to burn the place down. I also don't see any reason to sit there, in the dark, in weather conditions that don't allow for going outside without the ability to prepare a warm meal and being bored stiff if a little preparing in advance could lessen future annoyance.

I think the rules changed. As I said, I did my initial application at the West Knox location (before they moved) but they apparently don't do anything with HCPs anymore. At first, I figured the employee who told me I'd have to go to Strawberry Plains was wrong so I actually looked it up on the Department of Safety website. Under the FAQs about renewal it actually does say that to do so in person one has to go to a full service DL center and there is a link to a list of full service centers. The ONLY full service center listed in Knox County is Strawberry Plains so, to answer someone's question from a previous post, no, apparently the West Knoxville location is not a full service location. Nope, at least not anymore (if they ever were.) I guess when they got that nice, new building they figured they should stop actually providing the services people might need (they were still in their old location close to Cedar Bluff when I originally applied for my HCP there.) Maybe I will. I am not even eligible for renewal until next month - I just wanted to find out what I needed to do while I was in there the other day (this is my first time renewing.) When I first got mine, it was taking them forever to issue permits and forever + a day to issue renewals. The wife of the instructor for my carry class had applied for renewal at the 'six months before expiration' mark and still hadn't received her renewal at the time of our class which was two months after her HCP expiration date (yes, eight months and she still hadn't received her renewal) and, based on what I heard from others, her experience was not unique or even all that uncommon. Luckily, she had the receipt to allow her to legally carry until the renewal arrived. I guess I am just a little leery of something like that happening and would rather have the receipt in hand at time of payment/renewal application.

Chomp, chomp. Twitch, twitch. I may have to make something like this the next time my friends and I get together. Waaaayyy too dangerous for someone who has to keep an eye on their blood sugar to have a whole batch of this stuff around the house.

From the article: So much for the, "There will only be more deaths because bystanders will get caught in the crossfire," line of BS, roll over and play dead, offer your neck to the wolves in the hopes they won't hurt you line of thinking. "But ooohhhh, Dante was a good guy and that bad old permit holder didn't have to go and kill him." Puh-leese. I'd just like to see Waffle House reimburse the permit holder for the price of the rounds he had to fire and give him free Burt's chili and hash browns for life.

Here is an apparent change of which others may or may not be aware. Maybe this info will help someone avoid missing out on the deadline to renew their HCP. A few weeks back I went into the Driver's License center located in West Knoxville to change the address on my DL. This was the location where I originally applied for my HCP a little over three years ago. While there, I mentioned that my HCP expires this August and wondered what I needed to do if I wanted to renew in person once I hit the six months out mark (I'd prefer to do that rather than by mail just so I will have the receipt in case there are any unforeseen delays.) I found out that now, in Knoxville, one has to go to the Strawberry Plains location in order to renew an HCP. To me, this is kind of ridiculous as Strawberry Plains is about half a mile from nowhere from just about any direction. In fact, the true community of Strawberry Plains (which does not lie at the Interstate exit so labled) is in Sevier County - or maybe it is actually Jefferson County by that point, I can't recall exactly. When I lived closer, I was the branch manager of the Carter Branch of the Knox County Public Library so I can say with certainty that area is the extreme edge of Knox County. I don't understand why someone should have to go there to conduct a simple renewal. I can maybe understand folks having to go there to initially apply but I don't see why any DL station couldn't handle a renewal. After all, if it can be done by mail why couldn't any DL center handle it in person? As I actually now live in Roane County, I will probably end up going to the Rockwood location (which is on the Dept. of Safety's list of full service DL centers.) Yeah, Rockwood is also about half a mile from nowhere but it is a lot closer, for me, than Strawberry Plains with less traffic in between and will probably be less busy. The PITA is that doing either will pretty much require taking a day off from work just to take care of maybe ten minutes worth of business. As my work place is just off of Lovell Road, if the center in West Knoxville still did this I could just leave work a little early and stop by the DL center one day.

Thanks for the clarification. My argument would be that a person who is on unemployment isn't paying taxes. Sure, taxes may be taken from their unemployment benefits but, as they aren't working for the money they are receiving, they aren't paying taxes. I guess that is splitting hairs, though, so I will concede the point. It sounds, however, like you aren't really talking about only tax payers having the vote but actually tax filers. If what you are talking about is actually people who do not file taxes then that is a different matter, entirely. However, as anyone can hit a rough patch or have a run of bad luck I'd say it would be more reasonable to say that a person should lose the right to vote after not having filed taxes for a certain number of consecutive years - say, maybe, three years in a row (for the record, I have worked and filed taxes every, single year since I was 16.) Thing is, though, in a system where people who are clearly ineligible to vote still seem to be voting, sometimes, how the heck do you monitor something like that? As for the portion of your post I specifically quoted, do you really believe that almost every, single person who goes to the voting booth isn't going to be voting for the candidate they think will be the best for them and their families? I know I sure as heck am not going to vote for someone who I think will make things worse for me regardless of how good he or she might be for the 'nation'. Maybe that makes me a bad citizen - or maybe I am simply honest. Heck, even the Founders had their own, personal situations at least partially in mind when deciding to revolt.

Guys, I am nobody on this sight. Not a moderator, not an administrator or anything. Still, I would simply suggest that maybe we should be careful about discussing knowingly and willfully breaking carry laws. Yes, the sign law is stupid but it is still a law and carrying past a proper sign is illegal. Do I blame someone for doing so? Honestly, no. Do I think we should keep bugging our Senators and Reps to change the stupid law? Yes. Such stupid signs do not have the force of law in many of our neighboring states nor should they have the force of law, here. However, I am not sure discussing illegal activity on a publicly accessible, firearms related site is the best course of action. If someone carries past a properly posted sign then, by the law, 'they' certainly can do more than simply, 'ask you to leave.' I don't think the officer would have to observe someone actually walking past the sign while armed - the officer would simply have to see a person inside a properly posted establishment while armed. So if some particularly anti shift manager, bartender or server sees the grips of your pistol peeking out of your pocket and calls the cops you could be facing legal trouble in the form of a $500 fine and (as has been discussed in other threads) possible temporary or even permanent loss of your carry permit. Has this happened? No one seems to have an example. Will this happen? I hope not. Could this happen? Damn straight it could. Just because a cop tells you to break the law doesn't make doing so any less illegal and doesn't mean that another cop won't charge you for it. It isn't the cop that will have to pay the fine and possibly lose rights and priveledges, it is you. Also, keep in mind that one part of the TGO code of conduct that TGO David has posted is: Personally, I still try to avoid patronizing and supporting any place that doesn't believe in my right to defend myself despite the steps I have taken to do so legally. Luckily, in the Knoxville area there aren't that many signs on places I would go, anyhow. Of course, some places are posted and it isn't always possible to completely avoid such places. That said, whether or not I would knowingly carry past one of those signs when there is little to no chance I would be 'made' isn't something I will discuss here.

Okay, here are the videos. The first one is the 'rapid fire' video - I want you guys to tell me if you would consider my rate of fire to be 'rapid fire'. Going by the video countdown timer, if I am correct, it looks to me like I fired all six shots in about four seconds. That is the one where I only put four shots on target (choked on the last two shots.) However, when I say something in the video about putting them in a six and a half inch circle I am talking about the size of the target circle, not the group size. I didn't think to measure the group size at first. However, at the end of the second video I measured the group size for both the rapid fire, four shot group (first video) and slower fire six shot group (second video.) Both measured out to four inches. In the second (slow, aimed fire) video, again if I am judging correctly by the timer, it seems that my estimate in an earlier post of firing six shots in ten to twelve seconds was about right. Both videos started with a fresh target. There is one annoying thing about these videos (well, at least one.) I shot them with my cell phone using the kick stand on my cell phone case to stand it up (I put my spare P3AT mag under the kick stand to get the angle downrange that I needed.) What I didn't think of was that I should have shot the video with the cellphone turned sideways. Because I shot it with the phone standing up - although it looks fine on the cellphone screen - when I transfer the video from the phone it ends up being sideways on the computer screen. That is annoying but shouldn't impact the point of the videos. Also, for the record, I am wearing hearing protection in the videos. I am using earplugs that might not be immediately visible in the videos. Before anyone says anything, no I wasn't wearing eye protection. I generally don't unless I am at a formal shooting range. I am aware of the potential risks and it is a personal choice.

Lester Weevils, thanks for the additional info. I actually have a small camping trailer parked outside. The problem is that it only has one battery and even running the interior lights for a few hours drains it to the point that the low battery alarm starts beeping. When using it for camping, unless it is parked somewhere with an electrical hook-up, it gets treated more or less like a solid-walled tent - just a place to sleep - than like a more steadily-powered RV might. My (soon to be ex) wife uses a CPAP and we always took a spare deep-cycle battery with an inverter (sat the battery outside and ran an extension cord in the window) to run it when we camped in places that didn't have hookups. Mostly what I am looking for would be a low-tech (and cheap) setup that would allow me to power, say, a lamp and small things like a toaster oven or a hot plate during a short-term power outage. Maybe something that could power a TV or radio at the most. I don't need something that would be constantly hooked up to keep a computer from going down so I am not really concerned with it being an uninterrupted power supply nor would I be looking to run a whole lot off of the batteries. I do have camping equipment that could be used for cooking, etc. outdoors but the problem is that usually our power goes out because it is storming - not ideal conditions for grilling a hamburger outside. My thought would be just to have available power that I could tap by using a 'redneck' setup of plugging a good, multi-outlet extension cord into the inverter then running it into the house when needed. As such, the unsealed batteries should be fine as ventilation isn't an issue nor is mobility of the setup a concern. Truthfully, for my purposes, just having two or three deep cycle batteries on hand and hooking the inverter to them individually (sort of like we did with the CPAP) and rotating to the next as each one goes dead would probably serve my needs. My biggest reason for wanting to link two or three would be so I could keep them all charged without having to rotate the charger to each battery and so I could utilize them without having to go outside (in the pouring rain, thunderstorm or whatever) every couple of hours to swap the inverter around. I'm just not sure what is the best way to link the batteries. I know that some guys who like to build serious off-road vehicles sometimes link a couple of deep cycle batteries (mounted outside their vehicles) and then wire them up so that the vehicle's alternator (actually they sometimes install a second alternator) will keep them charged. They do this so that they can run winches, offroad lights and the like without draining their cranking battery. That is more along the lines of what I am thinking of except using a battery charger or maybe even a solar charger (like the one linked below) to maintain the charge when the batteries aren't in use. Supposedly, solar chargers of the size linked below (unlike lower-powered trickle chargers) can actually recharge batteries but I don't know how long it would take and, of course, they probably wouldn't do a whole lot during a storm. http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50032-Solar-Battery-Charger/dp/B0006JO0X8

So some guy who has lost his job and hasn't paid taxes this year because he is having a hard time finding employment shouldn't get to vote despite having been a hardworking, steadily employed 'payer' for thirty or fourty years prior? What about people who work but whose low incomes result in them getting the majority of their income tax returned? Technically, they aren't 'payers' either, right? Should they just shut up, keep their heads down and accept what their 'betters' decide? What about people who are truly disabled? Should someone be stripped of the ability to vote because he or she is paralyzed or otherwise permanently and severely disabled? Retired people probably aren't really paying all that much in taxes, either - maybe we shouldn't let those old farts vote regardless of how long they spent in the work force, paying taxes and so on.

Maybe we should only allow Free Will Baptists with peg legs named 'Frank' (the FW Baptist that is, not the peg leg) to vote. After all, if we are going to start putting 'criteria' on which citizen does and which citizen does not get to have a say, let's make it real interesting! I have a lot of respect for the Founders and their way of thinking. I believe that this country would be better off if we went back to their philosophies in many areas. That said, not everything they believed was 'perfect'. After all, in their day (and their thinking) slavery was okay. I don't think going back to that setup in the modern era would be a good idea any more than would limiting the right to vote. Me, I'd settle for ILLEGAL ALIENS and foreign friggin' countries not having a say in the way our government runs.

Do you or does anyone else know of somewhere online I might find instructions for building a small backup power supply using two or three deep cycle batteries from the auto parts store? Like maybe marine or rv type deep cycle batteries? I am not looking to build a huge setup but where I live now the electricity is prone to go out if it rains. Of course I can survive without electricity for that long (we used to go days without power whenever it would snow, etc. when I was a kid) but it is annoying. I'd just like to have something that could run basic appliances, etc. for a few hours until electricity is restored. I know I would need a power inverter, etc. What I don't know is how to 'link' multiple batteries. I figure that if I could build a small setup with two or three linked batteries then later add a small 'suitcase' generator then I'd probably be able to have electricity to run the basics for a few days, at least. I'm also thinking that one of the rv style solar panel 'trickle chargers' (used to keep rv 'house batteries' charged up) should work for maintaining a charge between uses.

I find it funny how people in our society look askance at the idea of a man carrying a pack (calling it a man purse, etc.) After all, some of the toughest men in history carried what they called 'possibles bags'. Sure, they used them to carry gear for black powder firearms but they also stashed other items that they might need in there. I doubt anyone ever called Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett a 'sissy' because they carried a 'man purse'. Well, not to their face, at least. Traditionally, the men of the Highland Scots - also a group of people I would consider 'tough' - not only wore kilts (skirts) but also carried a belt pouch/fanny pack/purse (called a sporran.) I doubt anyone would have wanted to make fun of them for it - especially when the Highlander in question had a basket dirk or claymore in hand - and certainly wouldn't want to do so twice. I like having things I might need with me. Conversely, I hate having a bunch of stuff crammed in my pockets. Drives me nuts. I kind of like 'messenger bags' but honestly those are a bit large for the things I would need to carry. Likewise, I have a couple of small backpacks (I like the kind that have one strap that goes across the chest) but those are also a bit much for daily carry. Belt packs (aka fanny packs) are okay, sometimes (I don't really give a crap what other people think about how they look) but they get in the way a lot when sitting down, etc. Along those lines, I have been considering buying or (preferably) making a frontier-style, leather possibles bag to daily carry things I might need. I'd still carry my wallet, pocket knife, pocket flashlight, cellphone and such small things in my pockets but there are other things I would like to carry (maybe a different knife, slightly larger flashlight, lighter/steel and striker, first aid supplies and so on) that I don't need to have in my pockets all the time.