crashgordan

you guys rock...

Okay, where do I start, The Patriot safe I was refering to is made in china, The Patriot safe you are refering to has one of their upper end safes made in the states, their Warrior safe is a cheap low end safe that is made oversea's or is partly assembled oversea's then shipped over and parts are added to get the made in the US label. Patriots "Warrior" safe is cheap, I have installed them before and they are a joke, have you seen one? or just read about it on the internet? As for Browning making safes overseas , yes that is correct, their Bronze and Theftgard , but its their two lower end safes, by the way the features on the Bronze are far superior to the PS Warrior safe. All of their other safes are made in Utah and their fire ratings and features are better than PS's . I always tell my customers about the features, where they are made and let them decide, I prefer a U S product if I can find one, if not I will reluctantly purchase a foreign product. Next:screwy: ******************************************************************************* ok... so i re-read this thread again just now... too bad it took so long for the teaching of fact to come out. It occurs to me that you are most likely the expert here on this topic. and it would have been enormously more helpful had you shared the above wisdom (and more) instructively at the outset of this thread... I understand the challenge of communicating with those who do not prescribe to logic. They will make their own decisions... but there are a ton of others 'lurking' here and many could have really learned something. maybe some did. while driving them to your website may be helpful, many will not go. and for the record, your adversary in this little sparring match has done more then you have to drive people to your website by mentioning your "list" at least twice. I for one have been watching closely... i'm a very bright guy, and calling a product a "joke" or "junk" is not instructive. However, telling me that "the welds are such and such, the X is of low quality and the Y is of poor strength / gauge / whatever, gives me facts. Or as you finally pointed out above, you gave some facts. In all things there are "teachable moments"... until now this one was largely missed. Teach us...

umm... what about the 2 hr closet LEO model?? https://www.patriotsafe.com/quotCloset-Modelquot-18-gun-safe-2-hour-fire-1880-LEO-SPECIAL_p_2.html just curious... don't get me wrong, i'm watching this pretty carefully, i'm getting ready to spend some green myself. and I did call Patriot, he says that the Patriot Safe line is manufactured in the U.S. you'd think they'd put this on their website, so i'm still not sure... just seeking to understand... j~

now that's some funny stuff... too bad it's all true!

so, lots of good input here.... one thing to add. From a purely defensible standpoint, it makes sense to carry what your local Law Enforcement are carrying. the reason is simple. it takes one less nail away from any scumbag prosecutor who would malign your good name by carrying a round "only a maniac who was just looking to kill someone" would carry. your defense is that, indeed, it is an affective round, and safe enough to be carried and used by your very own law enforcement in the very public that they serve. in the Ayoob records there are multiple cases of this very type of prosecution taking place, and indeed in some cases, this very defense coming into play. jmho...

looks pretty good, don't have any first hand experience with them. by the way, the Warrior 26 gun safe is not a 2 hr safe and is not 10 ga. steel.... not sure what gauge it is but i find it unlikely that it would only weigh 449 lbs if it was 10 gauge. it is: 26 gun capacity (13/13) 1 Hr. Fire (9) 1" Chrome locking bolts Press-Bent Steel Construction 449 Lbs. Drill shield hard plate protecting locking & Boltwork Advanced re-locking (prevents forced entry) The AM Sec SF6030 seems pretty close in spec and price, and they are damn fine safes.... AMSEC Safes LP Series Gun Safe and here's some great prices... AMSEC SF-6030 Gun Safes - AMSEC SF Series Gun Safes - 60 Min. Fire Safes just a thought.... not saying the Patriots aren't good... i'd like to know more about them too.

Dodd is near Chattanooga. I'm looking for any feedback from students of Dodd and Associates. please include any training you may have prior or after Dodd and impression/comparison. If you don't have firsthand knowlege or objective intel, please restrain yourself. Civilian, Police, Military Firearms Training - Dodd and Associates Firearms Training any information would be helpful. (ok, i know that sounds very optimistic, but i'm an optimistic guy)

have several. and wouldn't take $500 either. they are not junk,,, just different. i'd take one to war with terrific confidence. those who hate them have never fought with them...

best of luck... have many many Kahrs and love them. keep us posted

agree w/ above. if collector, probably a fair deal. if for shooting, you will never look back if you own a DSA... plus the savings.

agree. if you just want a great 22, the Sig is awesome. if you want a training rifle, guy the one that matches your duty rifle. have the S&W, and it's a screaming good gun. like the Sig very much, but have no need from a training standpoint. would be a fine weapon on it's own merits however. tried the colt. it sucked ass. of course, that is only my opinion.

Probably would do very well. i think something like Coal Creek Armory in Chattanooga would blow the doors off everyone else. I've talked to them about moving one into Chatt... hope they do. or someone does...

if i didn't already have one and was looking, i'd be pretty happy to find one for 425... that said, i do have one and it was a great EDC. however, the best EDC is the one that works for YOU... and if you hit better and like the fit finish and feel of the XD, then that's the one for you. i also have the XDsc, and honestly i hit better, faster and more instinctively with it. it now my EDC.

me too. i've tried to contact the cleveland club via email several times. totally ignored. maybe it's just me! i'm interested in checking it out....

have many many to choose from. EDC is a XDsc.40. love it. the XDsc9mm is even sweeter. you won't be sorry.

great group here. welcome!

The S&W offers a few good options ( i have one and am still finding it's sweet spot) It is built w/ a TC match barrel, this is good. it offers you a reciever that you can drop a match trigger in (i like the RRA two stage or the Timney Drop in) it comes with basic but functional and solid iron sights. if you are an AR shooter, it is a identical platform for training with. you can change/updgrade your stock to whatever works best for you. you can easily mount optics on the rail system. beyond that, i think the 100 yd accuracy will be based on the shooter and the ammo. mine will shoot minute of coke can offhand at 75 yds all day long with standard plinking ammo, i think this would be easy w/ the rifle in a rest or on bags. suspect w/ good ammo on a bag, groups would tighten considerably, possibly 1-2 inches. the sights are limited for MOA shooting for the reasons mentioned, but the gun could probably do it if properly rested. that said, probably not going to outshoot the CZ's, but i have not experience with them. Don't love the bolt guns, but that doesn't mean they aren't great. also have the 10/22, and by the time you get it up to that level of accuracy and tune, you will have similar money in it as the S&W. seeing them for as low as $360 if you can qualify for a LE/military rate, as low as $430 out the door for regular guys. Gundepot in Elizbethton TN. love mine. my kids LOVE it too.... it is a great training tool and an effective platform for training.

agree w/ KWE.... had the airsoft or paintball gun as a basic training tool for safety and muzzle awareness. don't have to drive out to the range to practice these things. have a 1:1 ratio Airsoft M4 so the transition is easy. then moved to the S&W ar15-22. Functional rifle w/ working charging handle, identical manual of arms. the move to the M4 should be easy when it's time. and FWIW, i'd be pretty happy w/ any one of my girls covering the front door w/ the S&W AR15-22 while i flanked. i know it would discourage the hell outa me from coming through that door...

I know you said revolver, and i agree with that choice. it's the ultimate point and click interface. the Ruger SP101 is very robust and is easy to shoot w/ .38 and w/ the right load, maybe hydroshok/gold dot in +p, a serious defensive tool. that said, love the Kahr p9, easy shooter and the right size for EDC. however, if i had to pick one for my beloved it, it would be a springfield XDm 9mm compact. incredible, easy to use, good capacity, interchangeable backstrap for various sized hands, safe and damn accurate even for a brand new shooter. way more accurate then any revolver. Can't disagree for a second w/ the Glock 26 vote either. easy shooter. but a slightly higher learning curve for some due to grip angle. That said, the last woman i trained with tried both the G26 and the XDm and oddly enough, hit better and faster w/ the 26. that's what she chose. everyone is different! Don't know if you have access to any ranges that rent... my practice when training new shooters is to give them as many different but viable options to try and then pick the one that works best for them. in dozens i have done this with, 8 outa ten go home w/ the XD or the XDm. and that's after running the gammut of the Ruger SP101, Springfield XDm/XD, Kahr, H&K USP or P2000 (they really do like the HK's, lazer accurate but damn spendy) and of course the venerable Glock 19 or 26. just my .02 cents. best wishes to a woman that wants to learn and carry. strong work!

for the price point you have listed, the sig 556 is it. damn fine rifle. you won't be disappointed. imho

CMMG makes a great rifle and bargain bin one is no exception. It's a fine rifle to start with and i highly doubt you could build one of any quality for cheaper. buy it, take it apart, put it together and learn it inside and out. agree w/ the 'staked gas key' question as noted by kelemvor, but that's not a reason to buy it. of its not staked go have Predator there in Knoxville stake it for $5. probably the biggest issue with some some is tolerance in build and metel quality. stay away from Hesse/Vulcan or Olympic. (no offense of someone loves them, i don't) Here is one of the most informative links i've seen on this topic. So you want to buy an AR-15, huh? - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com best wishes!

agree w/ above... more then the 9, but not much. imho

outstanding work. they are exceptional.

I was, but that's cool.... i thought the questions were phrased in largely in accusatory form, and wondered where the source of this came from... also, my post was directed to anyone who would use this form... i guess i don't see it the same way some folks do. in fact, i 've walked away from some great guns that required a signature and all that crap. likewise, i've bought a few (exactly one, i think) because the seller was standup. i get it, "being safe, covering my/your butt), etc, but when the state and federal government doesn't require it, why in the hell would i do it! they are intrusive enough without adding to it. maybe someday i'll see the light on this.... or maybe i'm just very careful about where my stuff comes from and where it goes... i think i need a cup o coffee... i'm not usually this grumpy

seriously? while i understand the logic, BATF doesn't require it. TN doesn't require it. and who wrote these questions and why are are most of them in the "I have been / I am a turd" format ?? how bout, "I have never been, I am not..." it's a serious question. i'm not trying to be dick. ____________________________________________________________ 1. I am the actual buyer / transferee of the firearm(s) (_) Yes (_) No 2. I am under indictment or have been arrested for any felony(s) (_) Yes (_) No 3. I am a fugitive from justice (_) Yes (_) No 4. I am an unlawful user or addicted to drugs or any controlled substance (_) Yes (_) No 5. I have been declared mentally defective (_) Yes (_) No 6. I have been committed to any mental institution (_) Yes (_) No 7. I was dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces (_) Yes (_) No 8. I am subject to a court order restraining me from harassing, stalking or threatening my child or an intimate partner. (_) Yes (_) No 9. I have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (_) Yes (_) No 10. If ever a United States Citizen, I have not renounced my citizenship (_) Yes (_) No 11. I am an illegal alien in the United States (_) Yes (_) No