Punisher84

I just want to be able to carry at Pickwick lol

I don't believe the constitution applies to foreign nationals committing crimes against the U.S.

I got slightly crooked here, then got more bent as I went along. I'm over it now though.

Well...I just broke my desk from slamming my head into it so hard. You realize this is like debating the benefits of open carry and then saying "Well I only carry concealed." I think this thread has run it's natural course of life. It's just a carousel now.

Word.

C.A.S, physical age may not mean much and from your past posts on here I will give you the credit of saying you are very mature and intelligent for your age. Take that compliment. Now, take this criticism, there is a wisdom that comes with age and there is a wisdom that comes with experience. I have lived 24 years, but I have done things alot have not. I have served in the military, I have been shot at, I have been stabbed, I have chased, fought with, subdued, and arrested criminals. I still do not want to wear a vest off-duty. You may also notice the absence of a badge symbol by my username, I have done most of the above as a private security officer. The rest has happened as a civilian. I understand your "Brady Campaign arguments" argument, but what you are missing is not that we are saying no one besides a cop or military or security officer should own body armor, but questioning the thought process of someone who views their everyday life as being that dangerous. Justme can make all the arguments he wants about violent crime etc, but in the grand scheme of things members of our military and law enforcement communities are much more likely to be injured or killed by criminals then the average citizen. I don't expect you to change your thoughts on what I say alone, but you also won't change my mind because I've been there and done it. When you can buy a vest and want to wear it/have it do it because you can and because you want it. That's about all I got.

Consider how stretched the military is right now. MOST have seen active combat, two to three times.

You're gonna make a fine liberal cop that no one wants to ride with when you grow up I'm sorry if that sounds harsh and I'm not a big fan of playing the age game, but the things you think now at 17 will be invalid in 3 years. There is an entirely different world to be experienced outside of high school and Mom and Dad's house. You will not believe this and you will not like that it is said to you. I know this because it was said to me when I was 17 and thought that I knew how everything worked.

Your logic and misplaced comparisons are poor. There is a fine line between paranoid and prepared. When I gear up everyday I put on several things I do not carry off-duty. Handcuffs, pepper spray, 21" collapsible baton, and BODY ARMOR. Why? Because the chances of me being suddenly thrust into a violent confrontation are there, but they are considerably lessened. A gun is a good compromise to me at that point. You seem to think that there are battles waged in the street everyday and the cops only show up to sweep up the bodies and that the military only deals with insurgents with firecrackers and cap guns. Tell me this, if there are so many civilians that could be saved by wearing body armor how come they aren't wearing it? It's not a crime in most states to possess it or wear it unless you are committing a crime. You are looking for justification or a permission slip to wear it. Just do it man. Buy you a Second Chance Level II and wear it everyday. Wear it with pride. It very well may save your life, but you know what from? The same thing it saves alot of patrol officers from...a car wreck.

Mike here is our point. The bill of RIGHTS guarantees a RIGHT to keep and bear arms. The only reason it is considered a privilege now is because the people have let it become that. I'm not even adverse, like some, to a permitting system. I think it is a restriction that makes sense nowadays, but I do NOT believe I should be restricted on my carry choices, what type of weapons I want to own,etc. Following the law, but wishing for and working to change those laws is what gets a RIGHT re-established as just that. I usually agree with you, rarely ever agree with Dave, but I can't agree with either of you on this. I can only think to put it like this, if it's not a right I guess you'll have no problem being the first ones in line to turn them over if it ever came to that?

Smooth it, oil it is what I did to mine. No problems since.

I have said it before and I'll say it again. A right restricted is no less a right. Would most here not consider it a right to live? How would you feel if someone started restricting that right? I am not naive enough to understand that there are going to be restrictions on some rights, but those restrictions should only be what we the majority voting people allow. I will also add this, any person who would question another's patriotism based only on their own meandering experiences is a fool. The finest patriot's that brought this nation to being had not all been in war.

I get the justification of having it if you want it. If you want a vest to lay by the bed in case of a break-in or a riot then that's good planning. My point is the people who wear this stuff everyday because they could very well encounter an armed subject, don't like it and wish we didn't have to wear it. C.A.S, as far as your comments to Willis did you even think about what you are saying? You as a civilian 17 year old have the option of running the hell away. The military, police officers, and private security professionals don't have that option. We run TOWARDS the gunfire. We do put on a uniform everyday fully intending to step between those who would do you harm and yourself. The chance I'm going to need a vest is exponentially higher than the average citizen. Regardless of how anyone here wants to spin crime statistics.

Actually as much as I hate it I don't. If you join the military and are caught or captured in combat you can't really expect the enemy to treat you well. I recently read an article where they asked a Vietnam vet who was tortured by the viet cong how he felt about torture or "enhanced interrogation techniques" he said he was for it. The ends don't always justify the means, but sometimes they do and the cold hard fact of life is very much what Jack Nicholson said in a few good men. "You don't want to know what I do, you don't want the truth."

I know I'm excited to walk into the saloon with my six-shooter. The media kills me.

LOL well well if isn't Major Modesty

Body armor stops rapes? Body armor stops robberies? Body armor keeps someones husband from beating them? Now whose argument is without merit? Most officers are shot at traffic stops. That means they are stopping someone suspected of committing a crime at that time. Not responding to a crime in progress. Really if you want to wear body armor just do it, I'll even tell you what brands are good and how much you should pay, but please don't insult my intelligence.

LOL Look at Phil...

Yea 32 students vs. the 150 + police officers that are killed every year or the 1000's of servicemen and women that have been killed in combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Most people never even first hand experience violent crime or anything all that unpleasant in their lives. If you want to play mall ninja that's fine. Your money, your time, your sweaty chafed back and chest from wearing that damn thing in a TN summer.

It is always painfully obvious who has read too many books and who has fought for something. Is torture nice? Nope. Is it right? It's a gray area. If we do it should we expect it to be done to us? Yup. Here's what you fail to understand either in your youth, arrogance, or lack of knowledge about what war really is. We use techniques like waterboarding and sleep deprivation. They beat, whip, cane, and do God only knows what else to our men and women that they capture. Then they behead them. I don't get people like you, just as I assume you'll respond with you don't get people like me, but I think you're just very naive.

:poop:

No **** man. I HATE wearing a Level II all day, let alone wearing a flak jacket, helmet, ruck, etc. Body armor serves a purpose, but to me anybody that just wants to run around with a vest on everyday because they can has got a screw loose.

I love Dawn of the Dead the 2004 version. 28 days later and 28 weeks later were good too.

I agree with the first part, but if you think you are more likely to be shot at than the police or military you need to get your head checked. I am honestly seriously ****ing insulted by that statement.

I've said before I'd be really surprised if you see many signs. Most of the chain places won't post because they need the money. You gotta remember that alot of people will speak out about these bills on their face, but really don't care once they pass. They just need to play the game.