Punisher84

The point isn't to feel useful. I like the idea, but my point was that I posted this on my Myspace and Facebook which I have about 100 friends/acquaintances on and I've been coordinating through my department at work. I work for a major hospital system in the Mid-South and very few people participate in this. I like your idea, but between doing stuff with PGR, donating to different Veteran's cause, Toys for Tots, and these drives my time is kinda filled. I was just complaining over people's reluctance to participate in these type of events.

I'm here 9-530 tomorrow. Gotta have the stuff in by about noonish. If you can't I understand. Believe me I understand people are busy, I was just venting about the generalities.

One of the conversations I had with a good friend of mine who did 2 tours was about the care packages they got when he was over there. He said they'd get a ton of soap and shampoo, toothbrushes, etc. He was always saying that he appreciated the thought, but he bought a bottle of shampoo at the PX that lasted him a whole tour. The big stuff he and his guys liked to get was sunflower seeds, jerky, hard candy, crap they could take on patrol. So I guess some people, even the ones that send stuff, may not always get it. The guys aren't at summer camp, they want comfort stuff, pieces of home.

OK I'm pissed and I'm gonna rant. I have tried (unsuccessfully) for the past year to get my friends and my department at work to participate in our corporate troop care package drive. We do 2 a year, Christmas and Independence Day. Guess how much help I got? Zip, zero, zilch, nada. I post it on Facebook I get some comments and some "likes", I post it at work and put a note on the box and I got 2 boxes of stuff in there right now. So I want someone to tell me why are people so apathetic? Why doesn't anyone care? It's easy to slap a bumper sticker on a car I guess saying you support the troops, but it's so hard to go to the dollar store and spend 10-20 bucks to get some stuff for our guys and gals overseas? This is the crap that is wrong with our country, people talk, but they won't DO. You know I never went to Iraq or Afghanistan, but I watched my friends go and I watched some of them not come back, I buried a guy from my old unit not 2 months ago. Rode a Patriot Guard mission in his honor. Maybe it's me trying to make up for not being able to go overseas because I got hurt, but I don't think it's all that much to ask to help out the troops and truly support them. Anyway, rant over. I'm just hurt by it and had to vent.

I don't think WJH meant HE thinks they are trash, he thinks most of us here think they are trash because we don't like liberals and liberals tend to cater to those types of people. However, there is a DRASTIC difference between a battered woman, a sick child, or a person who is down on their luck as opposed to an illegal immigrant, a crack head, or a welfare junkie. Liberals are the biggest hyprocrites the world has ever seen. They scream and yell about equality, and all the rest but how many D.C liberals do you see waving off their massive paychecks to feed the hungry and the poor? None. It's OK for the Rosie O'Donnell to have armed bodyguards, but you and me don't need to have those death machines called guns.

Guess it would depend on how it was said to me lol I might laugh, I might take offense

Amen brother. Maybe Kevin can have a "hug a terrorist" day.

Glad you're humble enough to admit it. I have much respect for the constitution. Hell, I took an oath to defend it against all enemies foreign and domestic. I still stand by that oath, by whatever means necessary. I don't think you're right, I think you are the one who is misled. Scream all you want to make yourself feel better or morally superior, but I'll support the guys who get the job done and if one day I find myself flat on my back, with a rag on my face, and a man with a bucket standing next to me because I suddenly became a terrorist like you so fear, I'll give you a call afterwards and say "Man. Waterboarding blows."

Because they are submitting to it voluntarily.

Nope, but wearing it gave me an insight to things that changed my opinions of the world drastically. I also don't believe the BoR or the DoI gives anything to foreign terrorists. Look, if it makes you feel better to think of me and others here as "bad people" go right ahead, but you will NEVER change my mind about this. Just as I assume I will never change yours and you will feel morally superior to me, but hey who is right?

I'll say it again for the record. If you want to pull my fingernails out, hook a battery up and soak me in water ala Lethal Weapon I'm not all about that. Waterboarding would suck and I'm pretty damn sure I'd tell them what they wanted to know, but I'd MUCH rather have that done to me. For the record you guys do know they torture our own guys in SERE school right?

Yea...for awhile now. Florida is pretty sweet for carriers. I barely ran into a place I couldn't carry when I was there.

I thought Obama was against torture so wouldn't I be eating out of Bush's hand? Kevin, I admire your passion, but you aren't really debating or debunking anything. You just keep posting the same thing repeatedly about what our nation stands for. Do you know what our nation stands for? I wore a uniform and was part of what our nation stands for. How about you?

I was pretty much at the stalemate point with what you replied to me so I guess I'll put my 2 cents on the above statement. It's not an easy choice, but some people make that choice selflessly. There are soldiers that throw themselves on grenades to save their friends, there are police officers who take bullets for their partners. Their families are told they died so others may live. I think the problem with most people is they ask themselves "Who am I to decide who lives and who dies?" Maybe it's because they don't want to play God. If you want to bring religion into it then I believe God works through our actions. Wrong or right. It's easy to be selfish. It's easy to say "I would kill your wife to save my family." It's easy to say it, not easy to do it. In summary I guess I'll say this, I condone torture in certain extreme circumstances. It is my personal feeling on the matter and it is no better or worse than anyone else's. As far as "the needs of the many" I hope I am never faced with that dilemma, because the realistic outcome is that everyone loses.

Don't wanna send it via email. Wanna send it MMS. *stomps feet* That's what everybody said when I bought a PC lol

LOL

Where I do security work it's in the employee manual you sign off on saying you read it and agree to it. Basically, if it's company property and I want in, I'm getting in. If it's your car and I ask to search there are 2 options: 1. I can have PC and search the vehicle or have PD assist with the search if they agree with the PC. 2. You can consent to a search or refuse. If you refuse you will more than likely be fired. I think most places are like this.

He might not be able to give you a name, but I bet there are quite a few people who could. I understand your conviction, but I think you're being naive.

Opinions vary chief.

Yea I've heard varying opinions too. Some say they view it the same as being to drunk to drive, others say if they smell it you're going for a ride. Ain't the law grand?

Well but that says under the influence to impair normal abilities, so maybe you can have a beer just not be intoxicated...

I don't get the Iphone buzz. I don't get spending that much money on a phone that I have to buy an app for just to send a picture message.

This is honestly one of the topics that while I disagree with you (strongly) I do respect your opinion on it and you have a very strong conviction about it. I look at it as a moral quandry. We're supposed to be the good guys right? So we shouldn't kill or torture. The problem is this puts us at a disadvantage to what our enemies will do. When I think of waterboarding and some of the techniques we have used it brings to mind the long established "anti-hero". Follow me if you will, everyone loves Captain America and Superman. They are clean, they are noble, they stand for truth, justice, all that good stuff. That's great, but we don't live in that world. We live in a gray world. That's why Batman, The Punisher, Wolverine, etc are big turns offs to some people. They are more realistic in the sense of their natures. Not trying to compare torture to comic books, but if you look at human nature, our morals, our ethics, they are all subjective. I believe there are some things that MUST be done for the greater good and it takes a certain type of person to do them. Basically I believe these people walk the edge of the abyss, but through restraint, do not fall in. I think there is a difference in what we do and what the terrorists do. I think that is not debatable as far as techniques go. Where we find debate in this, is in our souls. What would we do and what could we live with? It is a moral and philosophical question that is not likely to be answered on a forum.

If you gave me a choice between waterboarding and what the terrorists do to our guys...hand me my rag and get the bucket bubba.

What eehlert said, plus I'll add for clarity that the loaded mag right next to the gun is a no-no.