300winmag

I will be surprised if more than a several hundred public K-12 school employees, besides armed security employees, in the whole state will be carrying handguns a year from now because this bill is so restrictive. The bill is even more restrictive than the public college employee carry law. The employees will have to get permission from a school principal, school superintendent, and police chief. That is basically a may issue or in most places no issue system right there. There are other unnecessary restrictions even after all these hoops are jumped through and someone is approved and trained. The bill is not a very pro gun bill. The politicians could have just legalized K-12 schools and colleges, like Mississippi, for people with an enhanced carry permit but did not.

The bill is basically an extremely restrictive may issue public K 12 school employee carry bill. It is even more restrictive than the public college employee carry law. The K 12 school employees would have to get permission from what looks like the local police chief or maybe a sheriff's department. I would guess most of the populated areas, like Memphis and Nashville, will reject any interested applications to carry at a school. I doubt many public school employees are going to be able to carry under this restrictive law, even if they want to.

Reading the bill text is important. The bill makes some good changes because it removes the weapons crime of the no guns signs in Tennessee. Most states do not have weapons crimes for no guns signs, especially for people with concealed pistol licenses or handgun permits. No gun signs are generally treated as a trespass issue in most other states. The bill does not force private property owners to allow guns on their properties. Private property owners can still ask people to not bring firearms on their properties and can still ask people to leave when found with firearms. People forget that some of the state government offices put up these no gun signs, not just private property, and this bill fixes that problem. If you regularly carry a concealed handgun, I don't know why you would not want this bill to pass. Do we know if the state and national pro gun organizations are getting behind this bill?

You do not always have a choice where you go for daily business, such as a state government owned office. If you have an enhanced carry permit, you should not have to leave a gun in the car where it can be stolen at that state owned location because there is a no gun sign.

In Mississippi, you can legally carry handguns in K-12 schools and colleges with an enhanced MS carry license in addition to not worrying about weapons charges over no gun signs at private or public property. You can also carry in all the courthouses in Mississippi as long as you stay outside the courtrooms with an enhanced MS carry license. I am also pretty sure that if you have an enhanced license and carrying, you cannot be refused entry to MS local/state public property or asked to leave just for concealing a handgun.

How is it harder to get restrictions reduced, such as the sign issue, for the enhanced carry permit than it is get unlicensed handgun carry passed through the legislature?

Most other states don't make it a weapons crime for someone, especially someone with a handgun carry permit, to walk past a 'no gun' sign. Tennessee should at least provide an exception for people with handgun carry permits. No guns signs are treated as a trespass issue in most states. If a property owner sees you with a gun and does not want you there, the property owner must ask you to leave for not following his or her rules. If you do not leave, then that turns into a trespass issue.

The simple solution is just to remove the weapons crime behind no guns signs in Tennessee. Properties can put signs up all they want but the state should not have a weapons crime over a sign. If nothing else, the weapons crime should be removed for people with the enhanced carry permit just like in Mississippi.

You see the signs in the larger cities on private property and taxpayer funded local and state government properties.

The enhanced carry permit needs to actually be enhanced so that you can legally carry in more places. The 'no guns' signs weapons crime should not apply to the enhanced carry permit. That should only be a trespass issue if someone does not leave when asked just as it is in most states. Full college carry should also be legalized for enhanced permits. College employees can already carry with enhanced permits in TN plus most of the states bordering TN already have legal college carry for people with carry permits.

The weapons crime for the no guns signs needs to be removed all together or at least not apply for people with enhanced carry permits. People with enhanced permits should be able to also carry in other locations such as college campuses that are already legal in most states surrounding TN for people with carry permits.

The gun laws used to be even worse in TN for people with carry permits up until about ten years ago. You could not even legally carry inside any decent restaurant because they all sell alcohol. TN is one of the few states that has a mid level misdemeanor weapons offense for people WITH permits for violating a 'no guns' signs. Most of the states surrounding TN also have legal college carry for people with permits. TN does not generally have legal college carry with a permit, unless you are an employee at the college you are carrying at. It is legal to carry in K-12 schools with a permit in a couple of the surrounding states.

There is a not a lot of point in getting a real ID driver license to fly if you already have a passport. Service members do not need one either to fly since military ID qualifies as a real ID for them. A lot of driver license offices can be a pain to deal with and I try to avoid them.

Tennessee is one of the few states that has a class B weapons misdemeanor for certain 'no guns' signs and even fewer states that makes it a misdemeanor weapons crime for people with a permit or enhanced permit to carry past some 'no gun' signs. Most states treat 'no guns' signs as a trespass issue, especially for people with licenses or permits, and not weapons crimes.

After watching this legislative session and even sessions over the past few years, it seems that there are a wide variety of pro gun bills proposed. Few bills proposed seem to actually reduce restrictions for people with enhanced carry permits and give them more practical ability to legally carry in more places to protect themselves. For example, I would try to put forth effort to improve the law for the guy with an enhanced permit to legally carry while taking community college classes at night in a rough part of town VS changing the law for someone who wants to walk down the sidewalk with a loaded shotgun. I am still surprised most states surrounding TN have legal college campus carry with licenses and TN does not. Someone with an enhanced permit can still be criminally charged over a 'no gun' sign, even on some public properties. These issues should have been fixed for the enhanced permits a long time ago, in my opinion.

Sorry, I don't see how this is a huge step forward to suddenly make it illegal to make for someone to possess, own, or purchase firearms over a non violent DWI misdemeanor. So a guy who presently owns firearms and is convicted of a non violent misdemeanor suddenly loses the right to keep the guns he has at his own home? This bill is not a huge step forward in my opinion. So he now must give away, sell, or store his firearms with someone just like a felon. Politicians will use this in the future to add other non violent misdemeanors to keep people from owning guns. I think suddenly making long gun possession illegal for minors and forcing them to prove certain exceptions is also a step backwards. Basically you would have a 17 year old boy with a 22 rifle would have to prove he falls under those exceptions when right now it is not against the law for him to possess a 22 rifle. It looks like practically about the only people that gain anything are those who carry in parks and rec areas without handgun permits.

It looks like to me after reading this amendment that someone convicted of a recent misdemeanor DWI could be charged with firearm possession just for having a gun on his own property, even though he is not a convicted felon or other federal prohibited person. This is some TN add on. So someone convicted of a non violent misdemeanor loses gun possession and ownership, not just carry, rights for five years? It also looks like minors would now be prohibited from possessing long guns unless falling under certain defenses. There are no laws now prohibiting minors, like high schoolers, from possessing long guns at the federal or state level. Am I reading the amendment wrong as far as how it affects gun possession for certain non violent misdemeanors and minors?

Does this bill with the latest amendment prohibit possession of any firearm by anyone convicted of a misdemeanor DWI offense within five years? Not just carrying a loaded handgun but someone out hunting? That is the way I read this amendment.

Was the requirement that state office buildings offer gun storage lockers the big problem the committee had with the bill? I'm surprised that the committee otherwise would have a problem with this bill but would be ok with lowering the age to carry a handgun to 18.

What a lot of people do not realize is that this bill actually enhances the TN enhanced permit similar to the Mississippi enhanced permit where K-12 and college carry is legal. You would be able to legally carry in places like colleges that right now you cannot carry in TN. If you have an enhanced permit, you should be for this bill becoming law because it does expand where you can legally carry. I saw the amendment added to this bill and it looks like it was postponed to next week. Does this bill or the GOA sign bill have a decent chance?

The bill does not make someone who has an enhanced carry permit a law enforcement officer or give that person LEO arrest powers like the media is trying to scare the public. The bill should be read and also you have to read 39-17-1350 and the carry privileges allowed for some state employees, including non LEO employees, while not working. Those carry privileges include (while not working) the ability to carry at K-12 schools, colleges, all state and local government property, 'posted' property (unless asked to leave), etc. So basically this bill would enhance the TN enhanced permit similar to the MS enhanced permit.

Hopefully the NRA lobbyist does not come in and mess up good bills in order to claim credit for something.

HB2521 is a solid bill. Briefly read through the text. Hopefully a senate sponsor steps up to the plate. Basically the bill removes the Class B weapons charge from the sign law and changes the sign law from a weapons crime to a trespass situation like most states. Basically with this law change if a private property owner/manager sees your gun, asks you to leave, and you do not leave, you can be trespassed. Right now, you can be charged with a misdemeanor weapons charge without even being asked to leave over a no guns sign. Also the 'no gun' signs will be pretty much neutered on all state government property (except maybe colleges) unless the property has metal detectors. Other states have similar laws to this and this would be a great change. The gun orgs need to lobby hard for this one. I would say this is more important than lowering the permit and carry age from 21 to 18.

Are the gun groups in TN working towards enhancing the TN enhanced permit like the Mississippi enhanced permit which allows legal college campus carry? The MS enhanced even allows legal K-12 school carry. Of course the sign issue would need to be fixed in TN too for that to work which the MS enhanced permit fixed. MS enhanced and TN enhanced permit classes are similar 8 hour classes with firing range requirement. That would seem to bring more benefit than lowering the permit age from 21 to 18.

We would have been better off if the gun organizations tried to first remove the 'gun free' areas for people with enhanced carry permits VS promoting restricted permitless carry. Issues like college carry and 'no gun signs' were still not fixed for enhanced permits. I would not be surprised if a lot of government and non government properties in Memphis and Nashville put up legally binding no gun signs this summer when permitless carry becomes law. Unfortunately, those signs will also make a location off limits for someone with an enhanced permit.