Smith

While fundamentaly I still disagre with some of the premises of the arguement, you have represented yourself well. Personally I think we've had a good discussion. Keep it up.

Hard to beat for the money and if you de a search you will find they have been tortured and abused and hold up just fine.

Haha, might want to check your "science" and the term "theory". You are also assuming you know my world and life view from one topic. I'm arguing for facts not opinion and scientific theories are an entirely different scholastic endeavor. Kinda like the every reasonable 15th century person knew the earth was flat and that the sun circled the earth. Cause you know, science and all.

You kinda made my point. You seem to be implying that there can be no conclusive answer as long as there is opposition. That somehow if there are enough people who ardently argue and are passionate that the sky is forest green despite the facts then we must give them equal share in the discussion and legitimize their grievance. The old "seriousness of the charge" argument. If the facts can't lead to an answer, what is the point of the question and subsequent discussion?

Rusty, they are here and ready for you! I got to "inspect" them and they are a work of beauty! Very nice guns.

For a quiet guy you speak loudly!

So what was the gun the Israelis were using that they switched from citing amongst other things - desert reliability concerns?

Actually they are nothing alike. As to why they are better? They are newer, and we can't have them!

Absolutely he is doing a good job. The label is not on Brian but the paper he works for IS biased and does not hide that fact. They have been more open since their subscriptions have plummeted over the years but it is what it is. My point is not with Brian but the system and the premise. If the facts advocate for themselves then the facts have been presented. Everything else IS opinion. However, even using the "loophole" terminology in quotes shows you how stacked it is against us. The minority has dictated a word usage that we have to use in the conversation. Kinda like "guns in bars". That's actually counter factual. As to being offended ... hardly offended and I doubt Brian needs coddling either.

Runs ambidextrous, is much smaller without sacrificing barrel length, and is reliable. Nope, it's not an AR

Problem is you ARE presenting from a bias. The use of terms like "gun show loophole" already accepts one sides definition of the discussion. You should know full well that who ever defines the terms defines the discussion. So by allowing the oppositions terms as normality you are being biased whether you realize it or not. It's just lazy to not work past that issue to truly present a level story. Facts are that the issue at hand is not against the law, there is no factual basis to back up the opposition, and in fact the statistics support the pro private sale opinion. A story based on anything other than the facts of the discussion is disingenuous and IS an article of opinion. Not trying to beat you up, but you are correct that an actual factual story would not be published becasue facts tend to be biased. Opinion sways with emotional instability, facts stand regardless. The system is stacked against you and I am glad you are at least making an attempt. Welcome to our side.

People question your motives because you work for the beast that has targeted and intentionally petitioned against the fundamental right we exercise and most other beliefs I hold both politically and morally. Don't take it personally, but trust has to be gained and one guy who may be fair is still subject to the authority of the Tennessean which has lost ALL trust with me and many like me. Hope your story goes well and you can turn that trust back around, but it will be a long time before I visit the Tennessean website or accept any product from that company. in fact, all the free papers they keep throwing in my driveway I have been collecting and intend to return them in mass at some point.

I like the color myself. Putting that on top of Melonite and stainless, that slide is bombproof! Nice job.

From reading on handgunlaw.us Peaceable Journey laws can be very unclear and interpretive in NY and especially NYC. Even though technically they have to abide by the Federal law it is unclear what a "trip interruption" is and how they can enforce them. It always good when the laws cause confusion for the law abiding and leave all the benefit of the doubt, interpretation, and power with the State.

Flat = Trajectory after levaing the barrel.

Neither did the 1911 prototype. Here is the HP protytpe in which his patent was issued. All the fundamentals are there. Saive finished the asthetics and finished well IMO.

Haha, so true. He actually was not thrilled with what the government made him do to the 1911. His masterpiece was the Hi-Power in 9mm.

You do realize the context of RS original quote was against this very thing some were trying to get legalized with the sodomy issue?

Look, I am far from a Walmart hater. I frankly love the place, especially since I come from the land of Walmart. Heck my family helped open the second Walmart ever and my great grandfather and grandfather were buddies with the late Sam and his wife. All I'm saying is I believe their former MO fit what we have been told and what I've laid out. I don't think it's some deep hidden conspiracy, just marketing issue that are unique to Walmart and something to be aware of. I also believe that the new guns they are selling are probably not from the former tact since it would take some time to get that going again and the are only jumping back into the game to capitalize on the massive market they realized they missed out on. I think it is a good thing to have Walmart back in the game. BTW - there would be no fraud issues with Remington using receivers from a different factory. If that were they case nearly every 1911 manufacturer would be in lawsuits from Remsport, Armscor, and the like for using their frames without their names. Don't even get started on the AR market. It's not an uncommon practice in the firearms industry and I have no problem seeing Walmart use what everyone else uses.

Imagination huh? I guess it is my imagination that Marlin bought the reconstituted H&R 1871 in 2000 and Remington bought Marlin in 2007 giving Remington control of H&R 1871. Cerebrus bought Remington which brought along Remington, Marlin, H&R 1871, and Bushmaster under the same roof. One of their tactics is to share manufacturing instead of having septate facilities. Kinda like when they brought the Marlin lever guns under the Remington facility to correct the QC issues Marlin was having. Ironically all these brands are the ones Walmart is selling....... Hmmm I guess my imagination is pretty good;)

Well, Remington and H&R are owned by the same parent company and the Pardner Pump is nearly identical to the 870 except the receiver is made from a different steel (arguably better) and the the receiver pins spacing is slightly different. Meaning side saddles don't work except without some minor modifications. Also the receiver buttstock "horseshoe" is slightly different. It is a little smaller and the Remington butt-stock will be wider than the receiver. They will fit with some dremel work but they are not direct fits. I imagine this is possibly what Remington was doing to meet the Walmart price points is relabeling Pardner type guns from China with the Remington 870 and thus the fitment issues. I would also guess that Walmart's new gun inventory will not be this way since they are starting over, but it would surprise me if it happens again. I also speculate that this is not Walmarts doing but rather Remington's and the other makers trying to viable meet Walmarts pricing requirements. While that was true the 336W is now distributed to everyone as a lower priced option. Probably due Walmart deciding to quit gun sales then start again. It is the same as the 336 CS with birch furniture, gold trigger, and no butt-pad.

Well somethings amiss. I'll leave the ammo thing alone but as far as the gun issue here is my experience with Remington. We had a shotgun brought in and the fellow wanted an aftermarket stock put on it. After seeing that the receiver would not line up with the stocks and that it was different from the other Remington's we had we called Remington. The lady on the phone asked for the serial number and when we started reading it to her she said, "Oh that's a Walmart model. It is different and won't take aftermarket parts. You have to go through Walmart to get them." That is what I know first hand. Maybe she was wrong and maybe we misunderstood but the reciever was different enough to not work with stocks made for Remingtons.

Wow, I go work a little and here's all this love! I didn't even know I had tinfoil. I guess the aliens did it.

Lots of countries use NATO headstamps as a caliber designation. You may very well be right, but in my experience the WWB from Walmart and every where else I've ever gotten it from has been different. Only problems I've personally had where fromt he Walmart stuff. As far as the rest I got that information from a couple different distributors who said the same thing. It would not be uncommon for Walmart and Winchester to do that. That being said I can not definitvley prove my point any more than you can prove yours.

The only new inovations in firearms since 1909 will be a rail gun, phaser gun with multiple settings, and/or light sabers. Which technically aren't guns but better! Seriously, everything is a variation of something turn of the century or older. Some of the best inventions were created by people messing around with a bunch of stupid ideas before they stumbled on the genious one. Ask Edison.