Smith

[quote name="bowtieguy" post="1159693" timestamp="1402972502"]Makes you wonder though if they can sell it for a grand, how much markup is there?[/quote] I can tell you that it is WAY below distributor cost but they are probably getting it direct from Sig and on a purchase contract. I figure they are probably breaking even on that gun.

Somewhere people have gotten the idea that exploiting people, whether due to ignorance or desperation, for a "good deal" is capitalism. It is not nor has it ever been understood that way. Capitalism works off integrity of both ends. That is why we have problems with so many corporate and government issues. A good deal has to be a fair deal or else it is exploitation. It's like cheating at cards and then justifying it by saying its ok because they agreed to play you and didn't object.

Haha, OK. Agree to disagree but while it works for you it goes against the grain of the vast majority of HD instruction and principles that have been tested and proved over a very long study period. It's not a right or wrong thing. Six of one half a dozen of the other.

Yeah, they have those.

[quote name="dcloudy777" post="1159661" timestamp="1402964034"]If I knew I was going to fight one adversary that was't wearing armor, didn't take cover, and was just going to stand there directly facing me while I shot him, the shotgun might be my weapon of choice.Of course, if I knew who the threat was and when and where he was going to attack me, I'd just be somewhere else that day...[/quote]You might need to practice with a shotgun more. It's the wheel gun of the long gun world. BTW - how many home invaders wearing body armor are you planning on and what do you have that they are coming for it like a SWAT team? =-O

Always thought an ultra-light stock for the heavy Vepr was a good idea .... evidently so did Bonesteel. :) These aren't for sale yet (IIRC), but I was able to get ahold of one of the prototype stocks. So far LOVE IT. I was going to keep this one fairly traditional but that idea gradually got scraped as lower weight began to intrigue me more. Typical Bonesteel tight lockup, don't have to cut the tang (ala Ace), and it seems pretty tough. Cheek weld is very nice and will be even better when I add the TWS Dogleg. The tube is Al with a rubber shrink tube around it and the butt-stock is fixed so it can't be removed. Length is in between a Warsaw and Nato length, which is perfect for me on this setup. 13" LOP with the stock being 9.5" from back of the receiver to the end of the stock. You can buy the other stock bodies and attach them to the receiver block, so you aren't limited if LOP or feel isn't right for you. They also make a rubber butt pad that attaches via two threaded holes on the back of the stock. Sorry for the Tapco mag, but I didn't have any good ones available ATM. They are all loaded and ready to go to the range ;) Only drawback is that the receiver block doesn't fit exactly with the back of the receiver and I figure this is to account for the variances in Vepr receiver angles. It is a small aesthetic issue as fit and function is right on.

What you are talking about is not defensive but rather a offensive room clearing search with tactical fighting. Home defense is an entirely different mentality, tactic, and position thus a different tool is needed altogether.   Unless, you are trained and usually with backup, searching or room clearing is not a good idea. You are adding too many variables that the gun itself can't answer. Those answers have to come from a persona dynamically trained to anticipate multiple changing scenarios in real time. Home Defense is  generally about a singular defensive response and then letting the police tie up the ends or what ever is left.  The typical person, even one who recreationally shoots, is never advised to use that tactic. In that regard, using a shotgun you are actually more likely to hit your target with a spread pattern shot than a single projectile. Which in theory is safer for numerous reasons.   You can't tell me that a shotgun that maxes out it's range at about 50 yards is MORE dangerous than a rifle that is still lethal beyond 300m in CQB. All those test show is that up close and personal a shotgun is a better option, thus the ages old idea that close and personal work is shotgun work. Just look at what buckshot does to a 4 legged critter and what a rifle does to the same critter. There is far less over penetration or through and through with buckshot even at close range than a rifle.   It's all opinion like you said and you are clearly more comfortable and proficient with you plan, but as a general rule for the OP's question I still think the shotgun is the best all round option. There is no perfect answer, but either one will more than answer the question ;)

Which would be 90% of home defense situations.   I'm still sticking with the shotgun for this purpose. I've seen drywall test that say the opposite of the above, so not much I can say about that. I will say that your load makes a difference. Birdshot is not a terrible idea for close up work ie HD. I load heavier stuff behind it just in case, but I like the ability to shoot so many dynamic rounds out of one gun (shotgun). It's hard to beat for versatility and close up work.

[quote name="vontar" post="1159467" timestamp="1402886645"]wow, almost makes you wonder if something big is in the works. [/quote] No just really down sales numbers and lots of backorders rolling in.

Get a Hogue 12" LOP. Works great. 

Smith E-series. True customs for less money.

That's actually not bad for a draco.

Overtly heavy, large, limited capacity, overly complicated .... 1911 =-O I'd have to say the PPQ or S&W M&P

Simply put? The answer above. or simply answer, "nothing". :-) or answer, "the reaction to fear is fight or flight. When I carry I keep both those options."

Yep, less is more on this one. I'll get back in for #12.

Didn't realize they were going to be colored either. I was kinda looking forward to a more subdued look. Looks good though. Is the state outline straight on the bottom? It looks a bit angled in the pic.

So I got one of the first pre-production handguards that Manticore has coming out to beta test. All I got to say is it is awesome! The gas tube front hg retainer is a tight fit, but Sven said that was intentional. He also said they left a little extra material on the front retainer to allow for slight variations in fitment. Other words you can take some off if you need to. Mine didn't. Slipped right on. Feels good in the hands. Has excellent heat dissipation even without a heat shield and is very slim. Can't wait for the rail accessories and optic mount to come out. Another winner from Manticore. They aren't for sale yet, but they should be shortly ;) A few pics: A few detail pics:

Yeah, I saw that. I think it's just bad organization on the website. They have a modular section, an IWB section, an OWB section, and then that odd section. In the description of the actual holster it is listed only as an OWB. The original Silent Thunder is the only IWB/OWB holster I can see.

Not the STX or STX 2.0. The original Silent Thunder is modular but not the one listed above that I have.

Being that it attaches very similar to the Raven, it rides similar. I will say the angle of the attachments makes it a lot less rough in the belt and rides smoother if that makes since. The Raven style puts a lot of stress on the belt as it comes through the slots. The Garrett is angled to fit better in this regard. Best I can do on how it rides. I like it about 3 but can conceal it better in a 5 position.

Looks good. As a note on your other pistol, that Rossi grip is my favorite revolver grip of all time. Wish they made it aftermarket and to fit other guns.

It's a Walther PPQ with H&K price!

[quote name="wtl" post="1155580" timestamp="1401929336"]How so? Both are mostly kydex. What makes the Garrett so much better? I've never seen one up close so I honestly don't know. I just don't see how a leather lining equals higher quality.I did peruse their site and saw a single clip option which is my preference, so maybe I'll give one a try if I can ever find the CZ 2075 I want and need a holster for it.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 2[/quote] Features, quality, and design: Kydex quality, Kydex thickness, fit/finish, tension adjustment, attachment points, adjustable cant, closeness of the carry, .... No offense to the PJ it has a place, but it's like saying a Honda accord is the same as a Ferrari because they both are partially made from aluminum.

No they are being made at Walther's Umarex plant in Germany. Most of their traditional stuff is made at the Ulm factory in Germany. The only US thing Walther makes its actually made by Smith & Wesson, the PPK.

The only similarity is that they have kydex. Single point holsters for a full size gun is awful for me. Cant or no cant they will roll and tend to drag my pants down since all that weight is in one spot. That is why The Raven style using wings is so awesome. Distributing the weight carries the gun a lot lighter and it lets the belt do what it's supposed to do without having to cinch it down a size too small.     The leather lining doesn't add any bulk. In fact it is just as thin as the Raven style holsters I've had and they are as thin as it gets. Garrett did a good job on this one.