Smith

Still not going to answer the questions? I've and others have asked several times now. Set you symantics aside and you will see we have said the same thing, yet you sit in aghast at how I couch it. I find irritating when people refuse to see the forest because of the trees. BTW - You called me out on two different threads and then started a third all centered around what you perceive as something it's not. I see no other way than to take it personal.

Hat nothing! I'm getting a very large TGO tattoo on my most meaty parts!

DaddyO, I also find it odd that you keep going on about this yet in your profile I see you carry a .45 and under Carry #2 you say anything but a mousegun. If you're so intent on preserving life in a shooting, shouldn't you be carrying a small caliber that would greatly reduce the risk of a fatality. After all, you intent is only to stop the threat. Wouldn't a .32 or .22 do that just as well? Maybe you can get your choral group to sing Kum ba ya with you and ease your mind a bit.

So far you haven't answered anything just thrown out ignorance and naive theory. If you want PC speak you will find many to accommodate you and ease your sensitive emotions. This thread was started on out of context statements and raw assumptions that had nothing to do with your characterization. My views and ideas are well represented through numerous threads. I again go back to my first comment that you use proper context, search function, and reading comprehension. At 55 I would hope these things haven't eluded you. I have never said they are synonymous, but reality is what it is. Define deadly force. Define the purpose of a gun. Define SD shooting. Quote the NRA safety rules. All those encompass the deadly nature of the tool and the proper mentality to use them. If you think using or carrying a gun is anything less than a lethal tool, you are a fool. I understand it as such and respect it as such.

Interesting because everything I've read says that 9mm defensive loads in particular are based around velocity to achieve penetration and expansion. Every test I've seen shows much less penetration and less reliable expansion with that heavy of a load due to the loss in velocity. Especially in barrels under 5". Completely different theory than .45. My interpretation is that 124g +p is the perfect compromise, irregardless of bullet, for 9mm (sans FMJ). Now in FMJ I could get behind the 147g.

Really? All the time? I just don't understand why this has turned into some high moral argument. Define deadly force. Define the purpose of a gun. If you shoot, the intent is to kill. There is no argument about that. That is the base principal behind all this. Now, trying to word this as if there are HCP holders out there looking to kill somebody is exactly what the anti's try to do. I seriously doubt anyone here, myself included, every wants to take a life but if I draw and fire that is exactly what I'm ready to do. I'm sorry if there are those who think guns are LTL tools, because if they do they will probably be the ones who end up in court. Not those of us who understand the potential and seriousness of self preservation and protection.

Straight out of the HCP course.

Yeah, what he said!

Easy. "I shot to neutralize the threat". Judge - Where you aiming to kill? Me - I aimed to neutralize the threat. Judge - Why so many shots? Me - I fired till the threat was neutralized. Judge - You needed more than one? Me - He hadn't stopped or turned back. Once he did, I stopped.

Is that a real question? J/K Real simple trucks couldn't get to them. ;)Shouldn't last long ....unless all the yahoo's panic and start filling up every container in their house "just in case". Then it will drag on for a while.

refer to the post I made that you quoted and to the post I replied to where I made those statements ie context. In case your seach fu is weak. Guy was talking about using LTL rounds. That is a very dangerous mentality. BTW What are guns designed to do? If you want something LTL you DO NOT need to be carrying a gun. A good baton, or knife, but not a gun. I don't believe I said I intend to kill. If I did i meant that if I pull my gun that will be the likely outcome. I do not intend to try and preserve his life or "wound" him. That is a dangerous mentality. From both a personal standpoint as well as a safety standpoint. This isn't that hard or complicated.

All you have to do is put in an anonymous cal to codes. They will be out in a heart beat and she will have all the legal ammo she needs. They WILL find something.

I think you are referring to a post I made in another thread, but you took it out of context. What I was saying is that if you don't plan on killing a person when you fire your gun you will be the one that ends up dead. You can not go into a shooting situation with a mentality of trying to "wing" or "shoot the gun out of his hand" stuff. Guns are serious business that have serious consequences. If you pull it you better understand that more than likely what ever is on the receiving end will be dead. The intent is never to kill, but rather to preserve life. That being an innocent victims. The bad guy has made the decision to be on the opposite end and what ever befalls him is the consequence of his choice, not mine. If I were Rambo I could shoot the guns out of peoples hands from 100 yards away on a quick draw from the hip. However, the reality is that i will be shooting center mass until the threat is done. Several holes in the chest usually means death. If he live great if he dies too bad. I'm not thinking about him.

I can tell you from just building an addition and dealing with metro the hardest thing we had problems with was venting. They were very picky about vents. It all depends on the set up but the vent has to be at the end of the line just after the p-trap. Like I said it varies depending on setup but it sounds like not enough slope and bad venting. There may not be p-traps on everything either. The whole purpose of P-traps is to create a clean water "plug" between the sewer fumes and the fixture. Without that the smells will come right into the house. Even a backed up drain won't smell too bad if the p-traps and venting are correct.

The proper terminology should be "to neutralize the threat." That is how my HCP instructor told us to answer. I think it is a good phrase. MY intent is not necessarily to kill but rather to neutralize the threat. If he runs off after the first shot - neutralized. If he dies - neutralized. I never intend to kill someone, but I understand that if I ever shoot that is more than likely the end result.

Wrong mentality. Guns are designed to kill. Maiming or "winging" someone is for the movies where they can say cut or the bad guys explode from a .22 shot in the arm. If and when you shoot, you shoot to kill. If you are thinking otherwise you will be the dead one.

Isn't that kinda the point of a "trench tool"?

Very Nice. I love the 6.8! Just wish they get the caliber conversion for my MSAR STG out!

9mm in HST 124 +p (my favorite), Winchester PDX-1, TAP 124 +p, or Winchester Ranger-T 124g +p. Depends on what's available and at a good price.

That's a positive, hopeful outlook!

Gmail. I also use Operamail.

She had some adjustments made shortly after birth to make sure.

It sure tore of some sand! I'd like to see them dig some of this rocky TN soil!

We thought so too.

Just had our 4th child Sunday morning @ 1027! Little girl weighing 8.13 lbs. couldn't help but remember what the important things in life are and why I do what I do. It also reminded me why I carry. One - it is my responsibility to provide/protect for my family. As the Bible states "he who does not provide for his family is worse than the infidel." I take that to mean with love, support, finances, instruction, correction, and ...... protection. Two - My wife and kids need me around to provide number one. Not killed by some no good who would take their future. Never loose sight of priorities. God Wife Kids Guns!