Oh Shoot

Yep. This is stated everywhere. However, the statute sections mentioned do NOT say that. See the exact quotes of those in preceding posts. - OS

I don't know how to counter any of those statements, because of one major reason: I can't find any case in which a person has been charged by the ATF for not declaring a shipment to a FFL was a firearm. Not one. Can you? - OS

It is NOT against federal law to fail to declare a firearm to UPS/FedEx or even to the USPS (long guns only), as long as it is going to a FFL licensee (or to yourself in care of someone else). I understand that the carrier can open the package (I used to open them myself at FedEx Ground), and you could be "busted" by UPS/FedEx, but that is not a criminal offense of any kind, even if you sent a handgun by another method other than overnight. It seems it may be a criminal offense to send a handgun through USPS to anyone (except for FFL to FFL), but actually not sure if that is a criminal offense or just a violation of P.O. rules. - OS

Getting it BACK, the onus is on whichever FFL that's shipping it back to me. As far as my shipping it, it's insured, and since the only firearm notification is verbal, who's to prove I didn't "notify". - OS

Oh, whatever on the legal point... Its' just that now there's one more establishment that has a personal experience showing that "those handgun people are such a_holes". I think we should all try to leave that impression when we get a chance, eh? - OS

You walk in, order a meal, and don't pay for it. Whether you eat it or not certainly is still stealing from the establishment. I see no difference in that and calling the order in. If you choose to obey a non-compliant sign, okay, but is walking "all the way back to my store" like some big time trek or something? But spin it whichever way makes you feel good. - OS

While I agree with the spirit of this thread, OP actually DID technically break a law, think it's something about "defrauding business" or something. In a minor way, also broke a contract, ie, broke a promise. Methinks would have been classier to have paid for the order, then explained to manager/owner why it was the last one. - OS

LOL ! - OS

Yours is only one I've ever shot...very very nice all around pistola, seems. Thing that immediately struck me, it just doesn't look or feel like it could hold 17+1. Done with mirrors, methinks. - OS

Hey, you can't be fined or jailed for breaking UPS/FedEx rules, so I don't much worry about that. - OS

You are right. At any given terminal, the FFLs become known to the package handlers, as well as drivers. FFL destination packages are much more prone to theft than packages from FFLs, as the destination address jumps out more obviously than the from address. Any given address can also be tagged in puter system to prompt for special attention, but somebody higher up than sorters/drivers would have to be in on that. - OS

There are no xray machines at FedEx Ground in Knoxville unless they've put them in in the last year or so. We just opened them. I opened LOTS of packages when I was delivering, to know whether was worth the risk of leaving package if no one home on residential stops, it is not against policy. Actually, it's okay to ship long gun FedEx Ground. - OS

Dang, mine still says "preparing your order". I did order another couple things, I guess that somehow slowed things down, I dunno. Sounds like I can play with yours, though. Weather looks good for Thursday. - OS

Everybody seems to say that, because everybody seems to say that, I guess. See the printed law in posts above. - OS

I also have to say that this is wrong. Everybody says that. Somewhere in the ATF FAQ it says that. But the law says differently. It says that only in person to person shipments, must the carrier be notified. Read it (underline and bold mine) ============================ 18 U. S. C. 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31 (e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm. =============================== As long as I'm shipping to an FFL, I simply pack up the firearm, buy/print label online, and drop it off at any agent, usually a UPS store. They don't ask, I don't tell. - OS edit: didn't read Reservoir Dog's post first.

Your brother's mom in law lives in that park but you need an arsenal to spend a few days there? She must be a tough broad, eh? - OS

Cody, ya know whut? Read your permit/receipt. They don't mention clays on there. I know it's on some old sign there, but the paper is the thing you sign that is supposed to have the rules to abide by on it. - OS

Well heck, there's over $50 worth of ammo, at WallyWorld pricing. - OS

Well, to be fair, I don't think Tom's ever had any InRange actual stuff for sale there, I just used to drop stuff for Troy there if he wasn't in up in Kodak; everything had to be signature only for his stuff of course, so I'd usually call first. Tom's is pretty much across the road from the restaurant, used to see some various guns there is what I mean, as Troy was a LEO and other LEOs would buy/sell/trade there some. - OS

Gentlemen (using the term very loosely indeed) : I'm up for Thursday at the Norris Conservatory of Trajectory and Velocity. FCFB, Mosinon has to go in the am, so that's about 10 ish. Also, FCFB, you'll have your new scope? I had mine sent the freebie cheap way, sounds like at least a week or more ... BUT, Ron, I have one 10/22 with 4x on it already you can shoot, just to get the vibe. I even have put a Volquartsen hammer in it, so it's like butta (well, compared to stock it is). Oh, but I can't go up Norris Sat, gang...I've committed to the Sevierville Shrimp Dock Experience (see other thread in this forum), and gonna go up early enough to futz around the area a little. - OS

Count me in on both the din din and the SIR, I probably won't bring anything but my carry piece, but I'd just like to mainly see it, so will pop some with that. Btw, just moi for dinner, all my better halves have gone to, well, better halves. I'm gonna go early enough to go by Bass Pro and Smoky Mtn. Knives, and maybe J. Floyds if I do go all the way into town, like to the range. I'm pretty flexible on the range time, can always kill a little time at the fore mentioned places or something. Also, Tom's Pawn, real near Shrimp Dock, used to have some guns, was a popular cop hangout/trade place, matter of fact used to deliver Troy's InRange stuff there some. Motosyco, if just you and BB Chick want to do the range, just PM me and we'll coord amongst ourselves or something. - OS

FWIW, there are folks who do that there, at least during week when not crowded. They set up down on far right end of rifle range. I know the rules say no, though. - OS

As long as none are federal property, what law would prevent you from possessing/carrying in any of those locations, short of compliant posting from a private owner? (especially concealed , of course) - OS

Dayum...loaded for bear indeed. You shoot that thang without a recoil pad? Whatta guy. - OS

I'm not too crazy about the 42.7 pound trigger pull period. - OS