Oh Shoot

I dunno, I think both us generally pop 500 a session or more! - OS

ya got beat to the punch: http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/newsworthy-reports/37508-dubious-endorsement-cuban-leader-endorses-us-health-care-reform.html

I knew there was a reason I had to shore up the floorboards to hold all the .22 I've been rat holing. - OS

Well, in Sicko, TGO's favorite, Michael Moore, did get his folks treated inexpensively in Cuba, walk in, and no waiting. And Cuba has about the same life expectancy average as the US, which is like 34th to 38th in the world, depending on the source. Actually better in some. Maybe ObamaCare is actually modeled after it. - OS

Well, the only actual bullets to be loosed so far though were directed at a Republican. Maybe. Mighty weak shot though. "A preliminary investigation shows that a bullet was fired into the air and struck the window in a downward direction, landing on the floor about a foot from the window. The round struck with enough force to break the windowpane but did not penetrate the window blinds. There was no other damage to the room, which is used occasionally for meetings by the congressman." - OS

Well, Wiki is: Kel-Tec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia If they hadn't put a reference for the statement, probably wouldn't have quoted it. And link to BATF reference is: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2006.pdf But I get a security message failure trying to access it. Filename would suggest it was 2006 info. search for "afmer2006.pdf" gets many hits, but all of them seem to be dead. apparently it became: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2006.pdf for a while, but that's gone too. Couldn't find manufacturer stats info on ATF site either. So, no joy for now. - OS edit: here are statistics by year at ATF: Annual Firearms Manufacturers And Export Report ATF Online - Statistics latest is 2008: http://www.atf.gov/statistics/download/afmer/2008-firearms-manufacturers-export-report.pdf

just "biggie" handgun makers off top of head: Ruger S&W Kimber Kahr Hi-Point North American Arms Para Charter Arms Kel-Tec Dunno if that counts like Beretta USA, Walther USA, and the like. I wouldn't sneeze at being third, eh? - OS

I'm a little confused re this whole issue. Not to dispute the "end run" described in the article, according to NRA-ILA article in the March American Rifleman, it was Democrat John Murtha who deserves the praise for that? "Next, Congress passed the Department of Defense Appropriations Act of 2010. In that bill, the Obama administration sought to drop a longstanding rider that protects M1 carbines, M1 Garands and other valuable firearms from being needlessly destroyed. Not only did the provision remain in the bill, but it was improved so it will also prohibit the destruction of safe, legal and serviceable small arms ammunition and ammunition components. The new NRA-supported language was a response to the bureaucratic snarl that nearly required the destruction of all spent military cartridge cases earlier this year. Shooters who rely on ammunition loaded in once-fired military brass owe U.S. Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a round of applause for his help in getting this rider restored and expanded." - OS

Small? Wiki says: "According to the ATF, Kel-Tec is the third largest handgun maker in the U.S." - OS

Well, I'm not a lawyer, but they gave you bad legal advice, in my opinion. TN statutes seem clear enough on the matter.ND must be looking for every cent of revenue they can get. - OS

Oh, thought you meant my comments re you. We assumed he did, it's just that much of the other stuff he ranted about seemed pretty improbable for a person of his age, and he finally really went off the scale, so who knows. Anyway, we opined on the matter assuming he did have one and the point is that we could find no legal reason why it wouldn't be honored according to TN law, regardless of his age. the factoids seem to be: - One must be 21 to get a TN HCP. - TN honors every other state's permit, but does not say one must be 21 for one's out of state permit to be honored. - But regardless of age, the other state's permit is no longer valid after being a TN resident for 6 months. - OS

Who doubted it? I only inquired as to the nature of the permit. Thought maybe you were actually still a ND resident. In which case, you could carry here with their permit. You could be an out of state student at Maryville College for all I know. Most of us agree that there should be no carry permit required anywhere in the USA at all. - OS

Who was the kid on here, claimed had out of state permit, but was under 21? He was full of it in general and disappeared after getting called out, but anyway, was supposedly UT student, but was officially a resident of the other state. At any rate, we couldn't find anything in statutes that said it wouldn't be legal for him to carry here on the recognized permit, even though he was under 21. BUT, he wasn't a legal resident of TN, and if you are,and have been for 6 months or longer, that would seem to be the legal showstopper for you. The date on your TN driver's license, if you have one, would of course be the dead giveaway. - OS

Why is North Dakota willing to give you a permit? Do they think you are a ND resident, or do they give out non-resident permits? At any rate, you have a TN driver's license? If so, you're a proven TN resident, and I imagine things could get sticky in a hurry if checked, eh? - OS

Just heard him railing about how Dem policies will cause university funding to plummet, mentioning that he was a university president once. Yeah, and Lamar himself was personally to blame for UT losing state funding during his short stay as president of said university. It set a precedent and has never been restored to pre-Alexander percentage funding levels. Just another stepping stone on his way to a (fortunately failed) run at POTUS. - OS

3.8 inch barrel as opposed to 4.5 inch on standard XDMs. Both 3.8 and standard are in 9mm and .40. - OS

Texas is more restrictive than TN in some ways. No open carry there, even WITH permit, for example. Probably Vermont and Alaska. - OS

Wow. Top percentile on the I'm Impressed Scale. - OS

Armstrong is my rep. Adamant "anti", period. We wouldn't even have HCP at all if up to him. - OS

That's what I mean, no amendments are gonna happen. So the Repubs will propose all these na na nana na amendments, which they can etch in stone as things the Dems wouldn't support. Because the Dems steamrolled them with something that must have come out of a Huey Long manual. Sigh...wonder if there's a planet where adult sentient beings actually legislate by cooperative applications of logic and good intentions for their populous? - OS

Mark, I have become so alienated from and abandoned by the US two party system in the 44 years of my voting life that I have actually given up any hopes that we will ever see more than grudging lip service to the fundamental principles of our former Republic. I stay interested, because it's nearly impossible for a lifer news junkie to go cold turkey, but I admit that much of my commentary has become that of a "contemporary historian", if you will, rather than as a fully franchised participant. Without a dissertation, I see no significant long term difference in the Democratic or Republican parties as far the end results, that being the further debilitation of the Republic. Certainly, there are relatively clear cut differences in their tendencies, but both are so inexorably and irrevocably corrupted to the purpose of maintaining power that the legislation of that power has become little more than tyranny. Neither personal liberty nor the common good for the many even "trickle down" anymore, they are simply absorbed by the machines, whose ends are the perpetuation of their own elitist culture. An advanced alien would almost certainly look down at us and assume the clever monkeys here would simply meld productive elements from all the great monkey minds we have seen fit to send to legislatures to work together and in the process, using logic, science, and compassion, produce policies that maximally benefit both the worth of the free individual and the interdependent total citizenry. I'm sure that Jefferson, Adams, and the rest of the boys felt that way about it, too. Then again, though the Fathers' were well acquainted with the concept of personal wealth, they and the alien observers would be equally unfamiliar with the concept of career politicians and policy being bought by capitalistic elements that should need no special favors to fairly compete. Altruistic matters affecting the health, comfort, art, and amusement of the society (call it The Pursuit of Happiness) would be fomented and nurtured with the same enlightened and cooperative manner as the less genteel needs such as internal and external security. The aim would be the actual dispensation of these desirable ends, without the chains that make the recipients beholden to the givers. Right. The "givers" of course, and those that buy them, don't need the same dispensations, as money and insider knowledge equal a power that sets them above those they "govern" (read, "rule"). "All are equal but some are more equal than others". Forgive my frequent sardonic punditry, but I find more irony than anything else in most of these discussions of "get the bad guys out and the good guys in", and can't help but comment on many of them. I disagree with you that the national Republican party can now ever be modified into something that I will ever enthusiastically again embrace. I'd be amazed if it becomes such for you either, to the degree I understand your pure sense of longing for a viable instrument in which to entrust your patriotism and what individual freedom you are still allowed. Yes, the Tea folks are a refreshing development, probably as libertarian a force as we'll see short of, well...you know. But unless they can become a true Party in and of themselves, they will just be used, tricked, absorbed, and diluted into the same corrupt GOP over time. For a much as they may rail that they are not Republicans (and indeed they are NOT), there is no other faction with which they realistically can ideologically ally, if ally they must. I certainly don't mean to denigrate the effort at all (indeed, I attended the first big gathering here in Knoxville, and I'm sure will lean toward the candidates they run or endorse, for what little actual benefit that might possibly result). But their only true course to actually make a long term and substantial difference is to be an entity on their own, or at least completely overtake a lesser existing organization, the Libertarian Party being most likely in my estimation. Hell, I already call myself a Libertarian if pinned down, and will even admit I voted such in the last election, out of desperation, despair, and an ever so tiny modicum of hope that it would actually foment a viable third party, still not really believing that Obama would sweep as he did, but of course already being so soured on Dubya and De Boyz I couldn't do the lesser of two evils thing either. I naively did the same in 1980 (John Anderson) -- I just couldn't get it up for a B movie actor I grew up with the first time, Knute Rockne and Kings Row notwithstanding. Although I did indeed vote for the Gipper the second time around, the last time I voted without holding my nose, at least in retrospect. But I'm telling you, Ronald Wilson Reagan himself couldn't pull the GOP out today. So, I'll be happy to continue as a card carrying Libertarian under the Tea Party force. Or even a Teaist. Or whatever. Well, hmmm, I wanted to answer your question as fully as possible, since I do respect you. Thought about just doing a PM, but what the heck, maybe some others are curious as to my "circular arguments" too. I guess this turned into a minor dissertation after all. I did spare you the PowerPoint presentation, though. - OS

I apologized. Again? I apologize. I understand that. And that's why the Dems are digging it a helluva lot more than the GOP. I think you'll have to admit that if the Tea Party gets enough bucks to run a bunch of independents under your banner, or under the Libertarian or Constitution party or whatever, you are going to take more votes from the GOP slate than from the Dem slate. You may say you lean neither way, but I assure you are far far far from the Dems. The Republicans are the ones trying to make nice to you; the Dems know they ain't winning you over. - OS

Well, she says she likes it, but Terry_Frymire calls it perverse! Hope they don't get in power if they're gonna legislate morality in the bedroom! - OS

Absolutely NOT being sarcastic. The Tea Party is the Dem's best friend right now. Unless it actually gets big enough, or the GOP is able to trick the Tea Party into believing that they are "the same", the Donkeys realize it is more divisive than unifying to the Elephants. Remember, the polls show that something approaching 70% of the voting population wants ALL incumbents out of Congress, not just Dems. The GOP fears the Tea folks (it's hard to call it a "party", yet). Actually, it was innocent usage. I just made nice about it in another thread, where I just said: "Oh, excuse me all over the place. I guess I watch FOX Red Eye too much. I thought it was actually normal term, since the sending of actual tea bags to DC and whatnot." Really, I thought it was at worst a lighthearted way y'all referred to your own selves. - OS

34! - OS