Oh Shoot

  In this case, a factually correct cranky old fart, hence the reason for the effort.   - OS

  The ban on private sales that this thread primarily turned into   http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/56164-armslist-being-sued-by-the-brady-bunch/   may be rather prophetic, I'm afraid -- and ban on private sales may only be the tip of the new iceberg. And no, the fact that so far all these mass shooters did or could have acquired their weapons legally through FFLs won't have much to do with the emotional push to ban everything possible.   Meanwhile, though not a parent, the carnage is nonetheless overwhelming to me on a personally lamentable level.   - OS

Pretty prophetic discussion in light of the CT school shooting.   Already hearing the "40% of gun sales require no background check" mantra.   - OS

  Beginning to doubt that.   No, it doesn't. It covers physical possession and use of a handgun by a minor. As already stated, 39-17-1303 covers gifting/ownership.  Neither statute is mutually exclusive, neither is contradictory of the other.   It is legal to gift a firearm to a minor for lawful sporting purposes, which has been my only contention. Why you continue to ramp up your antagonism in an attempt to deny that simple and easily verifiable statement is beyond me.   - OS

  Yeah, I tried again about 2am, noticed the hazy mist also, even though sky was clear. Anyway, never saw even one.   - OS  

  That statute has nothing to do with gifting firearms. Try 39-17-1303 - Unlawful sale, loan or gift of firearm -- from which I've already quoted in this thread, and which 39-17-1319 does not contradict in any way.     On that I am not 100% sure, but think that may be right. - OS  

  Exception is one with gun "licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located".   Technically, carrying in a reciprocal state is not covered, so many of us are guilty of breaking that statute frequently.   - OS

  Do you have a comprehensive list of laws that you "think might" exist?   - OS

  There is no TN statute that minors must be gifted guns by relatives. A legal suggestion without even verifying statutory existence is far from helpful.   - OS

Nope. Better you should look it up before posting. - OS

  Long guns and handguns. Law just says "firearm".   "...firearm was loaned or given to a minor for the purposes of hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or any other lawful sporting activity"   Can also privately sell a handgun or long gun to an 18 year old   - OS

Giving is same as selling as per federal law, as long as you have no reason to believe the person is prohibited from ownership, give away.   And under TN law, you can even give minors firearms for lawful sporting purposes (but not sell to them).   - OS

.....   Diff is that "we" may have sold directly to a prohibited person. That's one part of the argument we face, and it really is undeniable that if they change the law, law abiding sellers can't do that any more.   Yes, it's Dr. Floyd Ferris from Atlas Shrugged  speaking to some extent, but there it is.   - OS  

Must be too much light pollution here close to town, can't see 'em.   - OS

  Nevertheless,  law abiding people sell firearms to felons everyday. Guaranteed. You or I may have done it.   Would fewer felons have guns if they couldn't buy them from you or me? I don't know. Does every person who is prohibited from buying a gun know the underground place to get one? I doubt it.   Only thing for sure is that if they can find them, the price would be a lot higher and the selection a lot worse. :)   - OS

  Agree that the NRA (and GOP) would probably only provide token resistance. The GOP would roll over easier than the NRA even, as they'd get some sop or other in some bill as payment.   - OS

  The 4473 system already allows determination of the first owner. Subsequent FFL transfers have to be ferreted out through individual gunshops. Of course, it is likely to assume the feds will probably try to institute a national gun registry in conjunction with banning private sales, if that get rolling.     - OS

  The liberal response is: it doesn't deny sales between two law abiding citizens, but prevents sales to prohibited persons. And who doesn't want to do that, eh?   And I have to admit, that yes, it would reduce sales to prohibited persons. How many, who knows? Will prohibited persons still be able to get guns? Sure, many will.   Fact is, it's totally unrealistic to assume that prohibited persons don't buy guns in this country daily through personal sales, and that it's much cheaper and easier, with wider selection,  than having to ferret out black market sources.   We can't know, but almost certainly some % of sales through TGO have gone to prohibited persons, just as an example, and of course during guns shows. No, it's not a "gun show loophole", but if you want cabbages, you go to a cabbage patch.   - OS

  Yep. Not to mention it would be just one more mini-step in making more free men criminals to control them. But that goes without saying. But I said it again anyway. :)   - OS

  Not a peep? Are you kidding? Or maybe, what else do you expect?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk1NMu6AY8s     - OS

I'm beginning to wonder if the GOP isn't on all tiers trying to force a third party.   - OS

Tell ya what, if you keep up with the pure face of the liberal progressive on MSNBC some, it will actually make you appreciate the relative neutrality of CNN.   - OS

  Well, it's just another fee, or since the SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare, a tax, on individual buyers. And not even on everyone, only those who choose to buy a certain product. No different than cigs or booze. Or gasoline.   Hell, it even promotes the economy ... at least for the thousands of gun shops that will charge to do it. Maybe they make it a pure tax, where x amount goes to the government, and the FFL gets to keep part of it, just like sales tax works here.   Point is , there's really no limit to federal power on these type issues now.   - OS

  Well, it would absolutely stop criminals from buying guns from law abiding people, and narrow a criminal's choices to buying from other criminals.   Of course, there are no stats, but it's simple logic that someone who can't legally buy a gun from FFL can buy them from individuals. Lord knows if I were prohibited and wanted guns,  first place I'd go is a gun show, where there's a vast smorgasbord of choices and the prices are the same for a guy on the lam as they are for anyone else.   Of course, I'm one of those who believe that as long as a guy ain't in prison or serving probation, he should be able to purchase firearms. Period. Which would leave only the pool of yet uncaught criminals. :) But that's another discussion. That has no consensus.   - OS

  It might be largely technically unenforceable, but most will adhere to it. Easiest entrapment arrest imaginable, just hire lots of temp agents to hang around guns shows and online sales forums. Just like enforcing prostitution, soon as money changes hands on a meet, busted. 100% conviction rate. I guess with audio/video recording, only the verbal commitment is enough, also just like prostitution. Perfect use for the Obama Citizen Army, eh?   Hell, even if I were willing to break the law,  I wouldn't sell one to someone I didn't know damn well, which would lower options by about 99%. About same for most folks.   - OS