ukerduker

Handloading for Long Range or Bench Rest We will be learning how to inspect and scrutinize each component of a loaded round of ammunition for consistency & accuracy. We'll Also go over how to carefully & methodically work up the most accurate possible load for a rifle with a given set of components. (It's east to get a rifle to shoot @ 100 yards. We'll go over means & methods to get it shooting it's best at LONG range... Bullet: weight sort bearing sort base to ogive sort meplat correction pointing Moly coating Brass Case: weight sort primer pocket uniforming flash hole deburring annealing resizing neck bumping neck sizing neck bushing dies trimming length reaming neck turning small basing cleaning Powder Charge: selecting the appropriate powder interpreting the reloading manual finding true max charge identifying pressure signs various means of working up an accurate powder charge powder handling scales & equipment Primers which primers to use how to pick the best primer primer cup hardness preloading the anvil priming equipment Assembly sizing case to best length finding best overall length reviewing "jumping" & jamming various quality control tests eliminating bullet run-out Equipment: where to spend big where you can skimp why you wan't a "worn-out" press(!!) various die types and designs various presses various powder measures & scales case prep & inspection tools bullet inspection tools priming tools case trimming tools neck turning tools etc Each student will learn and see how to go through the whole process to handload the most accurate possible ammo for their individual rifle. All good stuff here, but whats the cost of this class? I'm waiting to hear if I will be in town this day.

One thing I will stress about the dies, going cheap ruins your brass. I initially purchased a set of Lee 6.5 Grendel dies and the results were very inconsistent. At time during the resizing, the brass was "crushed". At nearly a buck each, I didn't want to risk losing additional cases. I opted for the Redding competition dies and its been smooth sailing ever since. I'll give you my old Lee dies if you like. You can't go wrong with Sabre! As for your lower, just pick a reasonably priced one. It does not need to be stamped with anything grendel specific. Mine is a Spikes Tactical lower and has CAL MULTI stamped into it. Welcome to the Grendel family!

Let be start by saying you get what you pay for... My project started with a reasonably priced used AA upper. I found this on www.65grendel.com. (You can also find good deals on gunbroker.com.) I then added additional upgrades over time as I could afford them. I looked at the GSR upper, but like you, the price was beyond my budget. AA only offers a gas piston upper in 18", and I wanted a 24" barrel. When considering a piston upper, the price is significantly higher up front. BUT, if you choose a standard configuration and install a piston conversion kit at a later date, you pay approx the same price after purchasing the kit, a new rail, and installing it. When I purchased my Adams Arms kit, I failed to realize that my gas block was too large. This forced me to purchase a new, smaller gas block barrel. It became an expensive mistake. Whatever configuration you choose, make it easy on yourself and buy a complete upper to start. Also keep in mind the rifling twist when looking at purchasing your upper. Mine is a 1-9. You might want to do some research on the bullets and their weights before deciding on a twist. I'm shooting 120 SMKs and 130 Berger VLD with amazing accuracy. The downside to a grendel is the fluctuating availability of ammunition. There can be shortages and extended backorders from time to time, but reloading can eliminate this issue. Additional upgrades- This is where it becomes subjective and your wallet may assume the leadership role. My rule of thumb- purchase items that allow you the most flexibility. My PRS stock is very nice, but it does come at higher a cost. I like the adjustments and the bottom rail for my mono-pod. Other items like a scope, a larger charging handle, bipod, muzzle break, suppressor, Magpul MIAD grip with storage area, etc,....add until your heart's content or your wallet is empty. I am reloading 6.5 grendel. So if you are a reloader and need future assistance in working up your loads. Let me know.

Better late than never! This work stuff is definately interferring with my play time. I attended the long range shooting class on March 19th. A bit of background on me. Having spent 12 years in the Army, I was not that familiar with anything outside of iron sights or my trusty, issued Aimpoint red dot. Last Summer I finished my 6.5 Grendel build and topped it with a Leupold Mark IV. Well, this was a high end scope, but it did me little good when I didn't understand exactly what I was looking through. It has a TRM reticle with 1/4 MOA adjustments, and I could never seemed to "make it work". After many trips to the range, some were great while others had me on the edge of driving over my project rifle and leaving it for dead. What was I missing? March 19th came along and I couldn't pass up this opportunity. The class was small and I had plenty of questions. Tres started with the basics. After several drawings and an explanation of some terminology, the light was coming on! I had heard many of the explained concepts, but I could not see the value or put it to work when shooting. Throughout the day, he built on the previous concepts and made sure everyone understood before moving on. Difficult concepts were broken down and easily explained with his whiteboard art. Partial list of topics covered: terminology, types of scopes, types of bullets, reticles & adjustments, incline/decline firing solutions, reticle target ranging, effect of weather & corrections, data cards, plus a nice list of tips and tricks. I now have a much better understanding of my equipment, simple and advanced shooting techniques thanks to Tres. This class was well worth the money.

NOooooo, I fear change. I shot a few rounds yesterday. Its definately a new feeling using that grip. I was hoping to move the grip forward, but forgot a screwdriver.

Thanks for the input guys. I think this touches on part of the issue. I got caught up in a tacticool (impulse) moment. One of those "hey, I don't have one of those." I normally shoot it with by simply grasping the rail. As I said in my initial post, some mandatory range time should quickly identify whether or not I keep it, or put it on my son's mid-length AR. I also noticed I am unable to operate my flashlight. Maybe Magpul needs can add a pressure-switch option on future models. Do they have a "suggestion box"?

Last night I bought the Magpul Angled Fore-Grig. I like the look but I'm not sure I like the feel. How many of you have this installed on your evil black rifles? Does it take some "getting used to"? Has anyone gone from a vertical style hangrip to the AFG? I guess I will wait and see until I put a few rounds down-range.

Lookin' good! What optic are you looking at installing?

I can throw some help your way. I have a Dillon 550 instead of a Hornady press, but the basic steps remain the same. Out of the list of calibers, I can walk you through the makings of a 5.56/.223 round. Shoot me a PM when your move is complete.

Count me in if you are bringing the class to Nashville.

Here's the cliff-notes:

Thanks for the clarification.

Sipsey Street Irregulars: This is going to piss off a number of people -- thoroughly and completely. I help Paul Helmke with his next crusade. Try to figure out why. This is not recent, but it's the first I have come across it. Here is a portion of the article at the link above. Does this only refer to all firearms or shotguns (with pistol-grips) with NO stock? I'm confused here. Too much legal jargon. ATF Letter Ruling means that a "pistol grip firearm" is a Destructive Device In a section entitled "Pistol Grips and Shotguns" on pages 2-3 of its November 2009 FFL Newsletter (click here to read it, ATF stated that "A firearm with a pistol grip in lieu of the shoulder stock is not designed to be fired from the shoulder and, therefore, is not a shotgun." This statement arose from ATF's clarification that "Certain commercially produced firearms do not fall within the definition of shotgun under the GCA even though they utilize a shotgun shell for ammunition. For example, firearms that come with a pistol grip in place of the buttstock are not shotguns as defined by the GCA." The procedures for recording transfers of such firearms were published by ATF (click here to read them), and ATF advises they be described as a "pistol grip firearm." Regulations involving pistol-gripped shotguns were included in the first regulations implementing the NFA, published in the INTERNAL REVENUE BULLETIN, Cumulative Bulletin XIII-2, July-December 1934, pages 433-440 (click here to read them). In particular, S.T. 772 states: "A so-called shotgun with a pistol grip, which fires a shot shell, falls within the class of 'any other weapon' . . . f such a gun is capable of being concealed on the person." S.T. 779 addresses classification of a firearm that is "a single shot, single trigger, and single hammer gun with a pistol grip, and is chambered for shot loads. It is so compact that it may be strapped over the shoulder, either over or under the coat." S.T. 779 further states that "The test described by the [National Firearms] for determining whether a particular weapon comes within the classification of 'any other weapon' . . . is not the length of the barrel, but whether the weapon is capable of being concealed on the person," and that the foregoing gun met the definition of "any other weapon" under the NFA. When the Congress amended the NFA under the National Firearms Act of 1968 (also known as Title II of the Gun Control Act of 1968), it defined a "destructive device," in part, as "Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes." Source: 26 U.S.C, Section 5845(f). "Secretary" refers to the Secretary of the Treasury; however, the Attorney General began performing all functions of the Secretary of the Treasury with respect to firearms after ATF was transferred to the Department of Justice on January 24, 2003. Until the November 2009 article, and a subsequent ATF Letter Ruling, so-called "pistol-grip shotguns" may have occupied a "gray" area under the GCA and the NFA. In 1960, the Congress amended the NFA to establish a 26" overall length requirement for a rifle or shotgun; a 16" barrel length standard for a rifle; and a $5 transfer tax for all "any other weapon" NFA firearms (click here to read it). Before the 1960 Act, both rifles and shotguns were required to have barrel lengths of 18" (there was no overall length requirement), and AOW transfers were $200. ATF adopted the 26" overall length requirement as a criteria for "concealibility" to uniformly implement the AOW standard. Consequently, since 1968, ATF viewed so-called "pistol-grip shotguns" under the 26" overall length requirement and manufacturers apparently presumed that an 18" barrel length was also required. In response to a request for clarification of the law, ATF advised a firearms manfacturer in a letter dated July 20, 2010 (click here to read it): " . . . in an effort to achieve consistent application of the law, ATF utilizes 26 inches as the presumptive standard to determine whether a firearm is 'capable of being concealed on the person' [and] "barrel length is considered only to the extent that it constitutes a portion of the overall-length measurement of a firearm." ATF also stated "because the statute does not expressly indicate any overall length, a firearm measuring greater than 26 inches in length may properly be classified as an . . . AOW . . . if it otherwise satisfies the definiton of an AOW and there is evidence that the firearm in question was actually concealed on a person [italics in original." In a letter dated October 27, 2010, ATF advised the manufacturer that installing a barrel approximately 17" in length in a firearm that was originally manufactured with a pistol grip in place of a shoulder stock, whose overall length is approximately 26-1/4", "is not a 'firearm' as defined by the NFA." (Click here to read it). The letter also states that if the submitted firearm "is concealed on a person, the . . . classification may change." The foregoing discussion, played out in Federal District Court in a criminal case, might well cause millions of what ATF now terms a "pistol grip firearm" to be reclassified as an "Any Other Weapon" if any such firearms are concealed on a person. Such a reclassification could occur, for example, in a criminal case if a defendant is found guilty of concealing a "pistol grip firearm" on his or her person. If one takes ATF's most recent correspondence on the issue at face value, it means that concealing a "pistol grip firearm" (regardless of its barrel length) on a person, could legally render it an "Any Other Weapon" subject to the NFA. There are millions of such "pistol grip firearms" that have been lawfully owned by millions of law-abiding citizens for many years, and they are manufactured by a variety of firearms manufacturers. If these firearms were ruled to be NFA firearms, they would be instantly and involuntarily converted into illegal contraband. Moreover, under current law, there is no legal mechanism to enable their continued legal possession except by (1) registering them as NFA firearms during an amnesty established by the Attorney General, or (2) a change in the NFA law, which must be enacted by the Congress and signed by the President. ATF has created a potential legal conundrum by clarifying that that certain "pistol grip firearms" are not shotguns, because apart from the "Any Other Weapon" issue just discussed, ATF has not acknowledge the fact that these firearms are most probably classifiable as "Destructive Devices." Again, taken at face value, a "pistol grip firearm" with a bore diameter larger than 1/2" in diameter is a "Destructive Device" under the NFA, unless the Attorney General determines that it is "a shotgun . . . generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes." By determining that a "pistol grip firearm" is not a shotgun, it is difficult to understand how current law would not classify such as firearm as a Destructive Device."

I am interested, but its too far for me. I will be first in line when the class comes to Nashville.

I like it. It's so nice to have a clean bolt carrier after shooting all day. Wipe it down, lube it up, and your back in business! I was concerned that the Grendel would be too much for the piston kit, but so far it has worked perfectly. I had to modify/machine my rail to allow room for the carrier actuating rod movement. It took some time and gave me some headaches but it has been worth it. I would recommend this kit to anyone wanting to upgrade to a gas piston upper.