wjh2657

I EDC a 640 or 642. 2 Speed Strips in the left front pocket. Total 15 rounds. Will I be able to reload all 15? Doubt it. Will I be alive to reload if I don't stop threat in first five? Doubt it. 30 Years USMC, Gunsite, In-service pistol teams and some IPSC shooting but I still state the above points. Multiple targets at close range and advancing, in the dark, heavily armed. Can I stop them alone with a handgun? Doubt it. Above scenario, the favorite of forum posters, you need a squad of Marines or SWAT,all with long guns. Anything less is a fool's game, all of the Combat Pistol training aside. Also just because you spend 1200-2400 dollars on a really neat BIG pistol does not make it a death ray. If you let yourself get into a multiple, heavily armed adversary scenario your handgun is going to be found clenched in your cold, dead hand. Read police reports of cops who got into it with gangbangers without back-up, they die! The very best thing a gun carrying citizen can do in those situations is the same thing an unarmed citizen could do. Avoid or escape it. Priorities: Try to escape (run, FAST) Try to find cover (Hide) No other choice, shoot the first one till he goes down and hope the others run away (not really likely, bold enough to attack, probably bold enough to stand ground!) Hope wounds (yours) aren't fatal. Combat always ends with casualties on both sides. So why do I carry then. I refuse to be executed. The one that gets too close to me to be a real threat gets shot. I have been wounded before, I'll take chance that it won't be fatal if the others start shooting. But I am realistic enough to realize that I am going to get shot, I'm not Rambo, and neither is anybody else. That was a movie!

The 586/686 was developed to correct the K-Frame weaknesses in .357 Mag. I'm looking for a Model 19 or 66 in 2 1/2" for carry but as a .38 Spcl +P gun. I have a 686 2 1/2" but it is one very heavy gun for everyday carry in light civilian clothes. I know there are guys on here that swear up and down they can carry heavy machine guns in IWB and jogging shorts, but I personaly have never been comfortable with a really big gun and casual dress. I'm small (5'5") and anything bigger than a K-Frame really shows up on me.

I should have used phrase "realistic situation ." Remember I am talking "in the parking lot or at the ATM" type scenarios. Again combat is a different situation than Self Defense. Combat is at least two adversaries, like armed, and taking on an adverserial posture (Albeit not always out of choice!). Self defense is being jumped and at relative close range. If you are jumped from under 10 yards (Predominant range for start of attack) you are not going to be reloading. As this post is about snubbies, and Colt is no longer in that business, it safe to say that most snubbies are going to be of the five shot variety. Combat (Long Range shootouts) BTW is often classified as a "Gunfight" in Tennessee courts and both parties are likely be viewed as willing participants. One dies and one goes to prison. (ref: read statutes pertaining to bringing a gun to a gunfight.) It is not necessarily true that this will always be the case, but it is very possible. Although there is no requirement in the law that you retreat, if withdrawal was possible (In the eyes of the Presecutor and Jury) and you elected to stick around, then you obviously wanted to engage in the "gunfight", and this is the argument that may be used. As far as fancy shooting is concerned (triple taps, combat reloads, changing positions, etc) I do have some experience to relate. In Nam (three combat tours) I watch battle hardened and well trained Marines go to pure panic fire with no fire discipline when the enemy over ran positions or jumped patrols at close range. It is a natural instinct and I for one do not believe that any fancy school of shooting is actually going to overcome it. I had two tours in the "bush" and was a Gunsite graduate by my 3rd tour of RVN. During that tour on occasion of close encounter with enemy we all, including me went to fast firing and pointing. Numerous reports of Police and BG shootouts bear this response out. If you are going to point and fire fast, practice for it. This is "snubbie country" close and fast. Would I carry a snubby for primary if I were in Law Enforcement or Security work? Absolutely not, "Combat" is the true game in this that scenario. I'd want a large caliber Semi-Auto and lots of loaded magazines. But the post is about snubbies!

Again verifying the main point: If you carry a snubby, lots of practice. If you can keep the shots in a small group slow, then it is somewhere in your trigger control that is throwing you off in rapid fire. I use a 317 in .22lr and a bullet trap to practice almost daily. My accuracy in rapid fire is now pretty deadly, but it does take the will and expense to practice often. I have no problem with recoil recovery, so trigger squeeze is the main issue, .22 is as good as .38 for practicing that. Maybe even a little better since 317 is all aluminum and lighter than my EDCs.

Need to get somebody on here who works for FEDEX. Supervisor showed right in their book: No Handguns (This was at Cookeville ) Could be only Dealer to Dealer or some other provision, but no handguns from private parties, no matter who is at other end. I read it myself. Like I said let's get an employee to reply with the guidelines. By the time I cranked in UPS fees, FFL fees, Background checks again, the gunsmithing and shipping was more than just buying a different gun with the accessories I wanted.

I EDC a 642 in hot weather/640 with .38 Specials rest of the time. l fired .357 Mag from 640 in indoor range one time. Nobody has to stay stupid! Noisy, fireball and hurt wrist! If you want .357 go to Ruger SP101 or S&W 686 and belt carry. If the K-Frames couldn't handle .357 on a everyday basis I have a hard time believing the J-Frames can . New ones weigh 2 ounces more than old (.38) ones. I don't believe they can beef a revolver up that much with 2 ounces more metal! I love the .357 but IMHO it is meant for a service sized pistol with at least a 4" barrel.. Little guys (snubbies) take a whole lot more practice. Practice once a month doesn't get it!

I have a S&W 2214 that has been a pocket companion for over 20 years. Accurate and very reliable. Problem is they quit making them. Might see if you can find one used. I still don't understand why S&W quit making them, darn fine little pistol.

Many will recognize from previous posts that I am a confirmed J-Frame guy. EDC one 7 days a week. But I also practice a lot. 50 Rounds 3-4X a week with a 317 in Garage range and once a week with EDCs in .38 at indoor range. My wife has a Model 60 but with 3" barrel ( Kit Gun Configuration) and good sights. I tried to find a K-Frame in 3" but they seem to have gone extinct. I still believe in the KISS principle of revolver shooting but I have to agree that a 2" snubby is terrible choice for beginner. I believe that the old Model 10 or a derivative is the best starter for a beginner. Preferably in 3" and round butt, but a round butt 4" will do in a pinch. There is also a whole different mindset with a snubbie. Realistic combat is 5 shots and range is <10yards. this entails : Stay the Gray Man ( be invisible!) Avoid situations that would entail multiple targets (walk away a lot) Give up trying to be John Wayne ( Don't goad others into gunfights) Stay out of Dark alleys with hopes of getting some sort of medal. In short, snubbie folks need to practice more discretion because they are not going to be demonstrating how much they learned at the latest new shooting school. Rules of snubbie etiquette: Avoid arguments and fights. Avoid mean, big, stupid people.(Especially around alcohol) Avoid big groups of young men who look hungry. Improve your speed at walking backwards. Get good at looking for places to hide. I know this runs against the grain for a lot of pistoleros but snubbie guys just want to stay alive and do not need to prove anything to lots of LEOs, Judges and juries. By the way. If all of the above doesn't work (try them first!) then empty 5 fast in COM before the BG can get his hands on you. But this is the last resort!

Repealed?! I want to see term limits on Congressmen and Senators! These people are supposed to represent us not rule us. I do not believe that the drafters of the USC ever intended for Congressman or Senator to be a lifelong career with little to no contact with the people in the state/district you are supposed to represent.

I OC or CC at home (depends on weather). As my weapon of choice is a S&W J-frame it presents no problem. My bathrobe (usual uniform of the day after 2100) has its own dedicated Bianchi pocket holster in right pocket. At night I have Mossberg Maverick 88 in bed rack and set in cruiser mode so I don't feel need to wear gun to bed. If I didn't take the threat serious, I wouldn't have gone through the money and bother to get a HCP.

When I was growing up in Ohio, it was cords off and into the drawer, khakis (Dickies) out and on. Now it is 640 and OWB into the Gun Safe with 642 and pocket holster out and on. The 642 was designed to be the consumate summer gun, IWB or pocket, it just disappears into summer clothing. When my wife sees the 642 on the nightstand she knows summer is really here!

Tennessee law pretty much has removed any need to retreat in a self defense situation. There is still that durn "reasonable fear" part to the law though. If you are in a structure, or any confining area, retreat is normally not an option and you can take your stand without retreating. If the threat is 3 blocks away, in the open, and coming at you, it might not be a bad idea to consider retreat anyways, for prudence sake. Retreat is not a legal requirement , but it may turn out to be a common sense option. I guess what I am saying is that it should be considered if it is possible. Gunfights are like knife fights, usually both sides get hurt to some degree. The whole idea of SD is minimizing you getting hurt! Not having bullets coming at you is a real good minimizing tactic! The goal in SD is not winning a gunfight, it is staying alive!

I wear bib overalls from time to time (buy mine at TSC, better overalls for a better price!) As I normally carry a 642 or 640, I carry the 642 in a Nemesis pocket holster with my overalls. Actually overall straps allow me to carry the 640 the same way if I want to. All kinds of places to hide a little J-Frame in bib overalls! I live in farm country , so bibs are pretty much common wear and allow "blending" or "herding" to avoid notice. Bib overalls, boots and a "Citizen's Bank" ball cap is the perfect "Grey Man" invisibility cloak! When I was teaching down in Hendersonville (Beech HS) the principal used to call my bib overalls my "Macon County Tuxedo!"

"I'm not 100 percent, but I think brandishing in an open carry state would require either the gun to be removed in an open carry state or their to be some type of intent to show the holstered gun from concealment. If it's a CC state, like Texas, I've been told merely the sight of a holstered gun or excessive printing could be considered brandishing. Doubt it'd stick, but you know what I'm getting at. " I just read Texas Law site and you are right. Texas is strange, law says you can shoot just about anybody, anywhere, for just about any reason but heaven help you if they see your gun or holster when you go to pay a cashier! They can use deadly force to protect property and can do it anywhere somebody will say it was okay by them! Castle Doctrine extends to not only your property, but any kinfolk's or good friend's property. But don't let that 1911 print through your sweater and jacket, short rope and tall tree a' comin! "Sundown, you better take care..."

I have heard the snubbie S&W 317 much maligned in the forums. I fire my 317 every day. It is the most used gun I own. I think a that a big misunderstanding is behind the "dissing" of this fine little revolver. The 317 is primarily a kit gun or trainer. It was never intended as a target pistol or even a hunting pistol. I use mine in the most important role that a .22 revolver or pistol can play: as a trainer for the bigger guns. I EDC, with TN HCP, a 642 or 640. As anybody knows, the snubbies take lots of practice. As the indoor range I fire at is 40 miles away, around some nasty twisting roads, I only get to it once every two weeks. This is not enough to keep up with the skills needed with a short barreled revolver. I have put a Champion .22 Bullet Trap in my garage (I live out of city limits. That trap, my 317 and a box of CCI .22 CBs keeps me in shape. I try to fire daily and at ranges I am likely to need my EDC at. Then every two weeks I go fire the .38s to keep skill applicable to EDCand to practice out to 15 yards.. I have installed the exact same Pachmayr Compac grips on the 317 as I have on my 64Xs. The front sight is painted exactly the same as the 64Xs, thus allowing the same drill as for the .38s. I fire both one hand low point and 2 hand high point/sight picture drills with the 317. I have range distance marked, but I practice at different odd ranges out to the max range for indoor shoot (21 feet.) I feel this is a lot more realistic for SD/HD shooting as I am not likely to get a target to stand at an exact range for me! My shooting skill with the 642 and 640 has improved immensely since I started these .22 drills. The 317 is the perfect trainer for the snubbie shooter!

Another case of cart before horse. This is not to criticize or chastise so please don't take it that way. Before I bought guns, I bought Big, nasty, heavy gunsafe for house, pistol safe Box for Car, Gun rack for bed, etc. When you bring a gun home, you need whole bunches of other stuff to make the gun safe during other situations (grandkids, Away from home, etc.) and you really need these before you bring gun home. The cable locks sound pretty viable for a temporary fix. After you get back I think you need to get cozy with Google and find a pistol safe box for your car. Same goes for holsters. A gun without a good well fitting holster needs to stay home. A gun is part of an overall security system and is only one part of that system.

The law simply makes the State (County) pay for your court costs and Attorney fees if you are found innocent or justified in criminal proceedings. It has no effect on civil liability because of U.S. Supreme Court decisions that no state may enact laws suppressing the legal right to redress (right to sue.) I really think intent of lawmakers was to appease guntoting voters, knowing all along that the law has no teeth. The plaintiff's attorney will bring up USSC decisions, judge will rule for trial to continue, and you are being sued. Texas has same law and their judges normally honor it, only to have their decisions overturned in the Supreme Court and shooter being sued anyways. Only the government has immunity from lawsuit, there is no law that actually protects an individual from litigation for any reason. If you shoot, you can be sued but not necessarily will be sued. Criminal court verdict of not guilty of murder does not keep civil jury finding you guilty of wrongful death ( O.J. was a valid point!) To answer original post, if you shoot you will probably find store suing you too. The reason they don't have security guards is that they have a policy of handing over the money and let the cops sort it out. Cuts down on bloodshed all around. You will most likely get justifiable or no bill on criminal charges but have good chance but not certain chance of losing everything you have and will have in civil court.) You makes your bets and you throws the dice! There is no blanket amnesty in place, otherwise we wouldn't have investigation of Officer involved shootings. Everybody will have to follow their own conscience on this one, but just don't go into it thinking you are going to be hailed as a hero and blessed for your actions.

I go 57 to 64 to St Louis, so it sounds like I am still in "friendly territory" going through Illinois. I couldn't find anything stating "domicile" either so I will lock unloaded gun and ammo up in Safe box in trunk. I don't stop anywhere in Illinois but roadside rest stops and and for gas once. Sounds like I will be safe. Thanks for all the info.

A S&W K-Frame, preferably with a 3" barrel. I'm looking for a "fixer-upper" that I can put in all new springs, Dura-Coat and put Pachmayrs on. Obviously meant for OWB CC.

Okay, this isn't for an argument. I really would like to know. According to legal beagles: Federal law has more provisions and wording is such that you can go from one legal domicile in one state to another legal domicile in another state and transport through Illinois. Trick here is the word domicile, meaning property you own and live in on at least a semi-regular basis. I GOOGLed the Federal law but I couldn't come up with anything. Is there a legal beagle on board the forum who could clarify this. Need real opinion, by law, not a "When you pry my gun out of my cold hands" armchair observation. I have to make this trip often and I really need to know. As to asking the IDOT for the information, I have a buddy who just got out of a Federal slammer due to following some bad info from another gun owner regarding a de-activated Browning MG mounted on a reanactment WWII jeep he owned. You have to go to the source, they have the POWER!

Talked to my Legal Beagles (Legal Service) about putting my handgun in carry safe in trunk of car while transiting Illinois to St.Louis to visit son/grandkids for XMas. After some pretty extensive research and a phone call with IDOT, conclusion reached was that I can't do it. Only provision in Illinois law that anybody applies is that of hunting in Illinois as a non-resident. In short I could transport an appropriate long gun if appropriate game was in season and I was in possession of a non-resident Hunting License from Illinois. Handgun is definite no-no. The IDOT recommended I download the State Trooper handbook on Handguns, which I did. This will be the State Trooper's guide in how they treat an incident and it says, transport of out of state handgun is not allowed. Going around Illinois is not an option, roads other way are bad at this time of year and would cost too much time. I am at a bit of a loss here. I seem to remember somebody on one of the forums quoting a Federal law that said you could transport (not carry) a handgun from one state that allowed carry to another state that allowed carry. Handgun and ammo to be separated and properly secured and not readily accessible of course. Anybody know anything more about this?

I served 30 years of honorable service on active duty in the United States Marine Corps. I have been a good law abiding citizen for 44 years of my 65 years of life (full citizenship began at 21 when I was a kid!) BUT, according to current measures of patriotism that have become entrenched in the last decade, I am NOT considered to be patriotic. I don't believe that the President or any other member of government is infallible just because they are a Republican (I am a Libertarian) I don't believe that the the more money a person has the less liable they are to the law. I don't believe that only fundamental Christians are true Americans (I am a Baptist, but not rabid about my faith to the point of trying to force it on others with laws.) If you think this is extreme, you need to read a few of your own posts in this and other forums. Any time guns are discussed, only a radical right and sometimes downright racist viewpoint is tolerated.(I am white) Any other view is immediately Anti-American. We, as a group, show little if any tolerance for any other view and are downright scary in the attitudes and actions we espouse. Making people be afraid of us will not bring them to their knees in submission to heed our rights, it will only bring them to back those who would disarm us. Patriotism involves the recognition of freedom and liberty for ALL. This includes at least respecting to some degree other viewpoints. I am NRA, I am a Marine, I am a Christian but I don't have to scare my neighbors and I will allow them to voice their viewpoint, with some respect for their feelings. I wasn't a Marine so I could carry a gun and kill people. I was a Marine to defend the rights of ALL people and defend their right to a good life. I used to be considered a patriot, I'm not so sure what I am anymore.

I CC a S&W revolver at all times. So no question about it, fully loaded and ready to go.