wjh2657

Overstock of BlackHawk Demo Guns available at LAPoliceGear.com Look under J-Frame.

Tn.Mitch: I feel same way you do. I lived in or near big cities for a good part of my life. Now I live in Macon County. I can hear and see my neighbors sheep, watch the deer and turkeys cross my 2 acre yard and smell new mown hay. I'll go into the city to shop or catch a new movie, but no way I'll ever live in one again! Good people in good places doing good things. 3 G's instead of the 3 S's!

My reply wasn't to the restaurant issue but to the power of boycott. It's an important tool in keeping capitalism reigned in and viable. As far as restaurants go, I usally put my gun in the trunk GunSafe for the rest of the night if the wife suddenly decides to eat at Chilis or another nice restaurant/bar. I do that because I like to have a beer with my food too. You can't drink and carry! Momma also knows the deal is that she drives home (she is a tee-totaler.) as i stated i don't normally boycott anybody. If I don't like their business philosophy, I just avoid them, but I do mention this to friends occasionally. I have boycotted stores that I believe have unfair business practices in the past and probably will again. Sometimes a business can confuse you as to how you are to regard them. I love Walmart's prices and brand names carried for ammunition and sporting goods. However, I strongly dislike many of their employee practices, particularly as it pertains to benefit packages. (I still shop there!)

a: In light of what unbridled government subsidized capitalism has done to this country ( It has proven a greater threat to our nation than any terrorist group could ever hope to be!) I find it very hard to be sympathetic with the business world. I am not a Socialist, I am a Free Market Conservative Libertarian (card carrying!) Conduct your business to match your market or go broke. Somebody else with a better idea will replace you. I believe in business Darwinism, better known as dog eat dog. This breeds quality management! b: As to us being a minority and ineffective, it is the organized minority groups that dictate political action in this country! The majority just don't care and an effective minority campaign can make a bigger splash than the majority. c: I don't organize boycotts myself , I just tell my friends why I won't go with them to certain establishments as I also believe strongly in word of mouth! d. Citizens are political activists, people who are unwilling to be politically active are just Subjects.

I have drawn my 642 and held it down behind my leg in a parking lot. I'm sure potential threat ( group of scruffy juveniles) never saw it and auto shielded it from prying eyes of any possible witnesses. They broke off and went on their way. I put 642 back in holster and surveyed area, no prying eyes (it was dark and at night.) I reholstered in my pocket, got in car and left. They didn't seem after me specifically but kept approaching my site, getting too close for a successful draw.

Morally justifiable? Boycotting is about the only tool we have against business. Get it straight, business got us into the mess we are in now, not the government. The way you keep business in line is to show that we have the ultimate tool, the market. If they feel they are going to lose the market, then they start giving in. The auto giants quit worrying about the market and kept on producing cars that we couldn't or wouldn't buy. Now we are using taxpayer money (education and medical money!) to allow them to stay in business. You are too young to remember the Houswives Boycott Against Beef decades ago. The Beef business priced beef way out of sight. Their answer was that if we wanted it we would pay the price, whether it was reasonable or not.Houswives all over the country boycotted beef and drove the price down. It even changed our eating habits to better. We used to eat turkey once or twice a year and chicken once a week. Now many people eat both every day. Pork became leaner (they sold the hogs quicker to cash in on the boycott) and we learned we liked leaner pork. Boycott and ballot are the only tools we have to control business and government, both of which do need control. You have to dangle market control in front of all businesses to make them provide the services you need. They are not going to serve you out of the kindness of their heart, they don't have a heart.

Everybody owns their own feet. You can point them anywhere you want and you can make them go where you want. If you have strong feelings against an establishment, don't go in. If there rules are outweighed by their service and you like them, go in. We all belong to some kind of organization or another. Talk it up and if you want to boycott, do it. It is still our right to function as social groups or communities. Just keep it within the law. You don't have the option of forgetting the law in your actions. If you are within the law, do what you think is right. Just remember, the other folks have the same options and rights!

"BTW - I have to watch out for Chilis cause I can't resist the dessert!" That white chocolate cake and ice cream "volcano" thing is a killer! I like Cubano and Caribbean "island" food and Chilis is the closest thing to it that I can get around here.

The Israelis are the children and grandchildren of those who were in line for a shower when the taps were shut off by liberating armies. They are never again going to trust "somebody else" to provide for their safety! I really think they have learned to follow Joshua ( the military leader) more than Moses. I don't think you can equate Israelis with any other Jews anywhere in the world, they are their own people (and may GOD be with them!)

So many Jewish organiztions and individuals! I fear they are again setting themselves up to be led off to slaughter. Anti-Semitism is not an exclusively German trait, it can rear up anywhere. ( Before everybody of German descent jumps up, I am first generation American and both sides of my family were from Wilhelmshaven, Bavaria.)You would think they would be in favor of arming themselves. The Hebrews had a pretty extensive military history in the Holy Bible and they were pretty effective at times.

Weapons have been drawn: it is an incident, report it!

Twice a week, at least, and that is just at "nice" sit down places. We probably eat out four or five times a week. We're retired and only have the two of us at home, cooking just cuts into our time to do something. I think you better keep your wife away from mine! BTW most of my "fancy" restaurant eating is in Bowling Green, so Kentucky laws prevail. I am right on the border of TN/KY and Bowling Green has the least traffic congestion of any of the metro areas around here. Lots of movie theaters and big stores too!

Chilis is last stop of the day. I am all over the place until then. I don't like to go unarmed all day just to be compliant in the last hour of the day. If I were going straight to Chilis and back, I would just leave gun at home, like I do for a trip to post office. On your last remark, you need to live with drinkers or vist an AA meeting to really understand the problem. Not everybody has the problem but a whole lot of drinkers do. Best to just avoid bars (not restaurants ) if you intend to carry. Just remember the one and only time I'm right and you are wrong, you are going to be dead or will have just killed and unarmed drunk. Not worth the trouble!

When I got my permit a year ago the birth certificate requirement was in effect. So I guess it falls within the "still qualified' area.

What the Sam Hill happened to the quick draw theme? I have participated in competition shooting and I am a Gunsite graduate. However, I find I never carry my gun on the street the same way I carry it in competition. (Don't allow pocket draw!) I also find all the wonderful practice at the ranch is now pretty much useless with a snubby and a pocket draw. I have since taken some pro training on the snubby and I practice the draw from almost every type of clothing I wear. I use a "Blue Gun" demonstrator (plastic) and practice for a few minutes each time I put on the clothes I will wear that day, both standing and sitting. After I feel comfortable that I can get to and clear the weapon into a ready position, I put the blue gun back in the drawer and put my 642 in the pocket. I do the same thing in the winter with my OWB and 640. Works for me.

A restaurant is responsible to supply "reasonable security" to protect it's customers, even from third parties. However, it is not a simple cut and dried area. Risk assessments are made (by LEA and Insurance companies)of the neighborhood and history of like incidents in area and a rather complicated process of data analysis will determine neccessary security level. Security measures do not include armed guards but cover monitored cameras, lighting, locks on outside doors and possible entry surveillance by an employee. The ultimate degree to which these are reasonable will be deternmined by the jury hearing the case. For most establishments, good employee awareness and locked outside doors will probably meet the "reasonable security" criteria. it will only be after multiple incidents at any one establishment or in one particular area that any insurance premiums will go up. What I am saying is that if the restaurant is in a "good neighborhood" and there is no history of problems, a threat to sue is pretty lame, as their lawyers know only too well that there is no "Negligent Security" tort to enable a judgement. They are not obligated to "bring in the Rangers" just because they won't let us "pack iron" in their establishment. Do what I do, forget the legal stuff and go eat somewhere else.

Gun stays in safe until I get home. The Chilis is near home, so I am not unarmed all that long. I know and obey the law. But I am curious that someone on the forum finds this disturbing when most of the forum seems to believe that they should be able to carry openly into bars, where they almost invariably imbibe. I have been drinking for 48 years and I well know that drinkers with alcohol present are going to drink. Disobeying blatantly is "expressing your 2d A rights" while a possible indiscretion (not in my case!) is a horrible violation of the law. I think we need to get some balance here! Guns and alcohol don't mix period , that is just common sense. Guns and drunks (not the carrier!) for sure don't mix. If I want to drink I know that I have surrendered my 2d A rights for right now, it is a conscious and personal choice. I don't blame politicians for it, it is a good sane rule. Momma (a non-drinker) drives home by the way.

Nobody is responsible for protecting you against outside aggression. Not even the police! No business is required to provide security personnel to guard customers. The only way the owner could be sued is if he or one of his employees shot you in his establishment during business hours. When you walk out of your house you are the only agency responsible for your safety. you have to make the personal decisions that will maximize your own security. If an establishment does not allow you your weapon, you must exercise your right to not enter that place. I carry, but there are places I would like to go, but I don't go because of weapons restrictions. I am pretty certain that I will still put my Centennial in the car safe when I go to Chilis, simply because I like a beer with my food and you still cannot drink while carrying.

My grandparents came, with my parents in tow, from Germany. They all became Americans. My father and all 3 of his brothers fought as sailors in the USN in the Pacific in WW2. They never considered themselves as German-Americans. they were Americans. Obviously the African coworker never made the crossover to being an American! I am a veteran and a 30 year retired U. S. Marine. I don't wave American flags but I most assuredly will back the right to do so for anybody who does!

For all of those who want Cheney to be president, catch his speech today endorsing gay marriages. This was one of the key issues that everybody felt Obama should be hung for. Now Mr. Republican comes out in favor of them! (I am not stating a position on gay (civil) marriages, but simply stating that it was of the key points of Mr. Cheny and his cohorts against the Dems during the campaign.) I am a Libertarian and I'll be darned if I can tell the players without a program!

#1 reason I always carry at home, you have to go outside sometimes. Garages don't have storm doors either, again EDC. The question was about inside a home not at a barbeque or party outside. Home should be hardened for security. When you are outside you are pretty much back into a "street" situation and act accordingly. If you zip the flap and they unzip it to get in, it is may still be forcible entry. In your yard has always been and still is a testy area. Leaves a lot for the other side's attorneys to play with. You can force them to leave, but again I am not all that sure that deadly force would hold up in court. You can always get up and go in house. We will have to wait and see how Castle Doctrine in the yard (Yes, it is included) holds up in court. The word "forcible" is open to interpretation by their lawyers in court so it has to be pretty rock sound. There really haven't been enough "Castle Doctrine" cases tried in court yet in any of the states to show a solid case law guidance. We are all just speculating. Meanwhile, I lock doors!

Have sturdy storm doors. Lock storm doors. When you unlock storm door you make decision right then how the scenario is going to play out. You don't have to admit anybody but authorities with a warrant into your house, unless you want to admit them. Once you let them in, they are no longer an intruder, they are a guest. Guest rules apply, there is no presumption of threat allowed. Regular SD rules of engagement are in effect, regardless of whether you are in your own house or not. Too many are interpreting "Castle Doctrine" to mean a free fire zone in your house. Only with forcible entry. If you want to be protected by Castle Doctrine, then you have to lock your doors! I do.

I shoot to put them down after I have reasonably determined they mean to kill me. They are down and I want them to stay down. I don't touch them. This wasn't an accidental shooting that I have to feel sorry about. This SOB scared me and I shot him to survive. I don't have any more responsibility toward him. Let the pros handle it when they get there. I am still scared and I can't be expected to have the presence of mind to be playing medic.

Check the pawn shops for a S&W 2214. Mine is utra reliable-feeds and fires anything in LR I put in it. It is also acceptable in the accuracy dept. I'll never sell or trade mine, it is a little "wonder gun."

"It's much easier to make a case that you were attacked by a guest or attacked when you asked someone to leave than it is to be involved in an altercation on the street and say "Yea i started fighting this guy, but he started beating my ass so I shot him in the face 3 times." The only difference is that you do not have to retreat (you are where you have a right to be) and you may use force to eject him, however you cannot use deadly force unless he suddenly tries to kill you. And then you are in a quandry because you are in violation of TCA 39-11-611(e) (2) "The threat or use of force against another is not justified: If the person using force provoked the other individual's use or attempted use of unlawful force." If you were having a real shouting contest, just about any words or moves you use could probably be used to mean provocation. The bad part about all this is that this probably only happen with neighbors, friends or kin. Strangers, in all likelihood, would leave if told in a firm way to depart. If they do not, call police. I have served through three jury cycles, two civil and 1 criminal. Just from my experience I don't think having it happen in home is going to sway a jury much. Half your jury is going to be non-homeowners and HUD folks and they don't even like people who own homes. They think we are all "Rich Bitches!" They don't think of dwelling in the same terms that we do. I think you meant intruders (strangers) who got in without being invited or "breaking-in." Without the break-in I have no right to do anything until there is a real threat. His just being in house doesn't change the SD game rules one whit. Keep distance from intruder. Ask nice once, have spouse call cops if they don't leave, hand in my pocket and keep a smile on my face. S&W 642 in pocket. But no moves until intruder does something real threatening and real stupid.