GlockSpock

So is this what you throwing your undivided support behind a firearm looks like? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My comment didn't make sense because it was in the wrong thread. Oops!

Or someone that breaks bigger and more apparent laws at the same time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, to the OP, serious question, what guns do you personally own and love? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In more straightforward terms, assuming that the 4" at 50 yards quote from Franklin Armory is correct, your 8" at 100 yards math is correct. Your 4 MOA math is not correct.

4" groups at 50 yards is ~ 8 MOA. 8 MOA at 100 yards is ~8". 4 MOA at 100 yards is ~ 4".

By no means did I mean any of that in a snarky manner. MOA is something that a lot/most people get confused about. Here is the most important thing to remember: MOA is a measurement of an angle, not a "grouping". Degrees - Minutes - Seconds 360 Degrees in a circle Each degree has 60 minutes Each minute has 60 seconds So for "MOA", you are really referring to how many minutes of a degree. It just so happens that 1 MOA is ~ 1" at 100 yards (it is actually 1.047"). As the distance shortens from 100 yards, the "grouping" (really, it's just the perpendicular measurement of the angle at a set distance) can only get smaller, just as it can only get bigger as you move out past 100 yards. The place a lot of people get a bit off is usually "What MOA is it at x distance"? As in, trying to use MOA to describe the group size at different distances. The thing is, MOA doesn't change. If something is 1 MOA, it's 1 MOA at 100 yard just as it is at 1000 yards. The thing that changes is that perpendicular measurement, at 1000 yards that measurement (or in gun terms, grouping) is 10.47".

4 MOA at 200 yards would be roughly 8”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wrong. 4 MOA would be very roughly 2” as 50 yards. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m still waiting for the NRA to fulfill this promise of repealing the 1986 machine gun ban. I bet nobody has heard of Wayne LaPierre though, have they? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I don't know that much about locks, but I wondered if perhaps I should have done this while doing the work. I wouldn't mind buying whatever top grade lock, but if I'm doing that I should just go big and buy a metal door as well. I could always go back and do it again, but then I'd be mounting the door reinforcement plate back into the same holes. Could work, but wouldn't be as strong. Still yet I may do so and figure out a way to make it work. And I don't think anyone is under the illusion that this sort of product makes your home impenetrable, it is just all about layers and making it slightly more difficult. Whereas before I think literally anyone could have given it one swift kick and been in the home (day or night, whether we were at home or away), I don't think anyone is simply kicking in the door quickly anymore. Of course there are other options, but some of those options would dissuade some and would delay anyone. Now if some madman is banging on the door while my Wife is home alone, I am more confident that she would have enough time to grab a firearm compared to if they could have simply kicked in the door within seconds. Layers.

This product attempts to help, but I think long term I too will upgrade to metal doors. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I just received confirmation that the discount code will expire on March 16th, 2018. Happy shopping!

Awesome! Same concept, different execution. I do like that they also include the squared plate for fixing to the door itself, bracing the deadbolt and door itself from impact as well. For someone willing to experiment a bit, most of this could be done from scratch cheaper. However, for anyone that isn't simply about saving the most amount of money for the trade-off of convenience, this kit sure was nice. Also, I'm not sure whether or not they still offer it, but at one time they guaranteed that your door wouldn't be kicked in or there was a cash payout.

It might not be much but I thought I would try this agreement:

I passed my comments along to them. Not that doing so will make any difference, in my opinion. Any other thoughts on what to do? Since it is theoretically an ATF ruling to begin with, does anyone think writing your US Representatives/Senators would help in the slightest?

Disclaimer: I was sent a free product for installation and evaluation in exchange for a review and "Group Buy" discount code. However, I was sent the free product because I first inquired and suggested to the manufacturer both an evaluation as well as a group buy for the fine members of TGO. As such, my review is 100% honest and not skewed simply because I was offered a free product, but rather I was offered a free product because I investigated good products and found Door Devil that way. Door Devil (Purchasable via their Website or Amazon.com) is an amazing product designed to greatly strengthen your exterior doors easily and cost efficiently. According to them, Door Devil immediately raises the force your doorway can withstand from approximately 300 lbs of force to an estimated 2,000 lbs of force. And thanks to their generosity, we have a 20% off code for TGO that should be good for approximately 45 days: tgo20 Make sure to use that discount code on their website during checkout, the code will not work on Amazon.com. Story: My Wife and I purchased a house April 1st of last year. That's a true story, not a practical joke of any kind. However, like most any home purchase, some things had been done right over the years and some things had been done cheap. I suppose the things done cheap could be considered practical jokes. The front door was one of those things that was done cheap instead of right. The plates on the door frame for the deadbolt and handle latch both were in bad shape. They were misaligned and had been adjusted so many times that a few of the screws didn't even have any bite left in them. I honestly felt like anyone with a firm push could make that door fail. This bothered me. I coincidentally found a product via ITS Tactical. They were heavily promoting a product called "Door Devil". I researched the product, viewed some installation videos as well as product testing videos, and was instantly sold. I contacted Door Devil about a group buy as a representative from TGO. I suggested that they provide a free product to me in exchange for a detailed review as well as product photos for their use. I also negotiated a 20% discount code for TGO members, which should be good for 45 days. I thought this was very fair to both myself and other TGO members. So below are photos and descriptions of my installation, and then a brief write-up of my final thoughts. I arrived home earlier this week and discovered an amazing package sitting on my porch. Woohoo! The Door Devil had arrived at last, and I was eager to install it. Upon opening, I glanced over the instructions and got started. It all looked very easy. So, first, here is a photo of what my door frame looked like before I did anything. As stated above, a few of the screws (1-2) didn't even have any bite in the wood and turned freely. The first step of installing the Door Devil is to remove both of these plates. What a joy it was seeing these plates on the ground! So, you can see here what my frame looked like initially. It had been overused and never quite done right. So, at this point I placed the Door Devil in the correct location. They include two "Test Screws" that are shorter than the installation screws. These are for attaching the Door Devil to your frame and then opening/closing the door to make sure the placement and everything will work. However, I wanted to see whether I could set the Door Devil deeper (as in, closer to the outside world) than the two plates initially were. I didn't want to screw the test screws in for this purpose, so I used some electrical tape at the top and bottom instead. Then I was able to close the door and determine that the door would indeed work with the door devil at this depth. However, as you can see below, the frame was not cut out for this depth. The handle latch and deadbolt would not seat into the frame although I could tell they would "set" into the Door Devil correctly. Let me please take a moment to ask you that if you do not currently own a "Multi-Tool" by Milwaukee or the like, please drop what you are doing and go buy one now. They are incredibly great and can be used for cutting, sanding, polishing, etc. They are, simply put, better than sliced bread (and even at that, could probably be used to slice bread). My Multi-Tool very quickly (literally, like slicing through butter) made the holes wide enough for the Door Devil to be set deeper. As you can see here, the frame is now correctly cut for the Door Devil to be positioned deeper into the frame. So ,at this point I installed the two "Test Screws" into the top and bottom of the Door Devil. I then tested the use of the door by opening, closing, locking, unlocking, etc again and again until I was confident that this was where everything should be. After being reassured of this, it is now time to use the long screws in all of the Door Devil installation holes as well as replacing the two "Test Screws". Shown below is one of the installation screws. The next phase of installation is reinforcing the dead-bolt. Luckily for me the deadbolt and door handle were in better shape than the frame and plates were. Here they are before touching them. What must be done here is to remove the screws to the deadbolt (save them, you'll need them). You then place the reinforcement plate over the deadbolt and then replace the screws. Ask first I was concerned because the screws obviously were holding more metal to the door but weren't deep enough to dig as deep/deeper than initially. However, this is not a concern and you will see in a moment why. The original deadbolt screws mainly serve as a placeholder for the plate. The plate itself is held to the door by four new screws. Two of the screws are on the outside of the door and two are on the mirrored position on the inside of the door. The deadbolt assembly itself is now reinforced. The great thing about Door Devil is that they don't stop there. They have also reinforced the hinge side of the door in quite an ingenious manner. First you screw two screws (into the door itself) with protruding knobs approximately 8" above the bottom and middle hinges. You can see both of those here. As seen in the above photo, you then carefully close the door and cause a slight indention into the frame (it was much easier than expected, there is so much leverage going on here when you do this). You then take each indention in the frame and replace it with a 5/8" diameter hole approximately 3/4" deep. At this point you screw two reinforcement plates around the holes, it sure does look nice this way! Now the hinge side of the door is able to withstand more force than normal due to these screws. When closed, the extruded screws obviously seek shelter within that metal plate. They now instruct you to remove the middle screw from each of the three hinges. I removed the top screw and saw that it was about the same length as the one supplied by Door Devil. So, at this point I questioned whether or not I needed to continue with the other two hinges, but please let me reinforce how glad I did! Below is a photo showing the length of the screws from the middle and bottom hinges going into the door frame. On the left is the screw that was installed initially, on the right is the screw provided by Door Devil as a replacement. I suppose Door Devil has determined that one of these screws per hinge is adequate enough to provide proper strength. If one wanted, they could opt for similar screws for all of the screws on the hinges, but that would likely be more for piece of mind rather than utility in my opinion. So, that's it! The frame is reinforced greatly with the Door Devil itself, the deadbolt is reinforced with a metal plate, the hinges are reinforced by both the extruded knobs on the screws and the longer screws for the hinges themselves. Celebrate! So, my final thoughts. It was claimed to only take 30 minutes, which could have been accurate, but I took my time, carefully did each step, measured and then measured again, and it took 2 hours. I could have went faster, but I didn't. Installation went flawlessly though and is so easy that anyone with a drill, screwdriver, 5/8" bit, a little bit of know-how and dedication can easily install this product both correctly and successfully. After installation, my door feels much more secure, looks great, and ultimately I am 100% pleased by their product. I then spent the next few hours installing new weather stripping to the door. Ultimately, in about 3 hours, I had a complete door makeover! Please note: The Door Devil only works on 1.75' width doors The Door Devil does not work on "French Doors" Let me also state that I am already impressed with these guys' customer service. Shoutout to Tom for agreeing to the group buy for us as well as just being quick, friendly, and all around a great guy to begin with! If you have any interest in these products, now is a good time to purchase by saving 20%. If you have any issues, notifying either myself or their customer service should fix any concerns. They have an amazing FAQ page here.

35.43% of people nearly died in Cleveland over the previous 24 hours. Snow. It’s a wonder we even survived at all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe it’s a smooth bore with thousands of tiny nanobots that all work together in creating bullet spin. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What if it doesn’t fire on the pull of the trigger but rather on the release of? Some sort of wording technicality based on their binary trigger and this is simple a modification thereof? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So is this you vouching for them? Any reason to spend anymore? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually, I just found this: https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/game-winner-hunting-utility-box#repChildCatSku=114492550 Imported, I believe, but if anyone can vouch for their quality I think it's a go.

I'm kicking myself for not buying one of the lots of 12 over Black Friday. I'm trying to find the best place to buy quality cans: New Qty: 6-12 Metal .50 Cal Preferably No Markings I'm scouring the internet, it looks like currently there aren't any super great deals currently. Anyone know of a place to buy quality ones?

@Dolomite_supafly You seem to know everything about anything gun related, ever. Thoughts regarding quality compared to a quality US manufactured equivalent (such as Winchester 3131).

http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/1000-round-can-magtech-556mm-ball-m193-military-surplus-ammo-cbc-556mil Is anyone familiar with this? Generally good reviews on the internet.