GhostDog

I had almost forgotten. You made out OK on my failure w/ the Cougar. Hope you are happy w/ it. It was a great gun, just not my cup of tea. Nate, It depends on what you want a gun for. I've had 1911s; some worked, some didn't. They sure are purdy but some won't shoot for crap. If you like to tinker w/ them, they're great (I guess). If you want a gun to shoot, that's something else. I think (my opinion only, I'm no expert) there are better options.

You'll have to decide for yourself. I wasn't sold the first time I picked one up (in 1989) but, after shooting them for many years, I can tell you that I shoot them better than anything else (and, by some miracle, I've never shot myself:D). I used to be a cop and I shoot IDPA style competition (not that it makes me an "expert"). You will have to find an OBJECTIVE way to judge the gun (or compare it against others). Only then will you KNOW what is best for you. Here is a list of guns I tried but that fell short of the Glocks I swear by. By "trying" these guns I mean: buying and working w/ the guns for 4-6 months; shooting them in competition; comparing my performance w/ them in an objective forum. As I said, they all fell short. P7M8, S&W M19, S&W 6906, Colt 1911 (45ACP and 38 Super), SIG 226 (DA/SA and DAO), SIG 225 (DA/SA), Beretta Cougar, S&W M39, and Wilson Professional Model (1911). All of these were fine guns but not for me. I shoot my 9mm Glocks much better. I can't tell you about the 40S&W Glocks. I had a Glock M21 for a short time but the grip was too large for my hands, so I sold it. Bottom line: don't take my word for it or any internet guru's word for it. Find out for yourself. Who cares what cops carry? Who cares what SEALS use? That doesn't mean a thing for you. But shooting the gun once won't tell you squat. If you really want to know, you have to be willing to do the work to find out OBJECTIVELY. Most people talk about shooting a lot more than they actually shoot. They have lots of opinions, many based on nothing more than BS. Put aside the money, make the commitment to do the work, and find out. Then you will KNOW and it won't matter what some internet ninja thinks.

is having to hear all the BS the "non-believers" sling all the time. Seriously though, I don't think I would want a Glock in 40S&W. On the other hand, I wouldn't want any gun in 40S&W. Also, the factory sights really do stink.

and add some Tyler T-grips.

Both guns are ultra-reliable (number 1 priority). Go rent one of each and try them yourself. If you like DA/SA trigger, go w/ the HK. If you like the same pull every time, go w/ the Glock. Decide for yourself which "fits" (grip and ergonomics) you best. You can't go wrong with either. I prefer Glocks but the only real advantage it has is that you will have plenty of money left over for ammo.

Number one is a gun/ammo combo that goes "bang" every time. After that, pick what YOU shoot best (fast and on target). Don't get caught up in the chest pounding.

You answered your own question. Go w/ the G19.

Mars, Rabbi has a big sale on Glocks right now. I knew you would be interested.

The ignorant can be educated, but there's no cure for stupid. Those are the most stupid things that I have seen in some time.

SAAMI max pressure for standard 9mm and 40S&W are the same. I agree about the amount of unsupported case but not pressure. It does, however, have a lot to do w/ the specific cartridge. Some have less margin for error than others due to many factors (like cartridge case design).

When he said "don't point it at anyone if you don't intend to use it", that includes yourself, Mars. That's how bad things happen. By the way, just stay in front of me w/ that finger on the trigger.

When are you going to try to do it again? Because of my crazy job, the more lead time I have, the better. And I would really like to make it to the next shoot.

Everyone seems to be digging in to support their own opinion (what a shock). I don't see anything new here. To each his/her own. The better the trigger is (meaning easier to shoot fast and accurately, particularly under stress), the easier to shoot anytime (even if you don't want it to) if you don't treat it w/ respect. That applies to any gun. You should decide for yourself what the best "mix" is for you. Don't take my word and, for goodness sake, don't take the word of an internet guru. I, personally, chose my carry gun based on what I SHOOT best, not based on how easy it is to reholster. Practice and watch what you're doing. Don't violate basic gunhandling rules and you'll be OK regardless of what you shoot. Besides, as a private citizen, if you ever do have to use your carry gun, reholstering will probably not be your biggest concern. These days most of the problems in this area are institutional rather than individual (as in piss poor training). Of course, that's just my opinion. I wouldn't want to lead anyone to believe that I am an expert or that my opinion is fact. There's enough of that around here already. Bottom line, too many people talk about shooting more than they shoot. There's knowing something "in your mind" and knowing it "in your gut". You can read a book about driving but you won't know how to drive until you do it, a lot it, yourself. All this banter about what's "best" is a great way to kill time, but it doesn't mean squat.

I missed the part where someone was putting down 1911s. I don't care what anyone else carries, it's each person's own choice and they have to live w/ the choice they make. I just get ticked when folks start saying stupid things to justify their choices. If you shoot enough, you'll figure out for yourself what works best for you. Then you won't need the advice of the many internet "experts".

I guess that's why 3 people see something happen and then tell 3 very different versions of what they saw. Rather than a good reason not to carry a Glock or 1911, I would say it's a very good reason to watch what you're doing and be familiar with your own gear (gun or anything else). But what do I know?

I'm really sorry I missed out, it looks like ya'll had a good time. Hey Rabbi, any chance this could become a semi-regular thing?

You count on that one if you want to, I'll pass. I'd rather look at what I'm doing w/ a Glock or a 1911.

Anyone who says "some are easier than others" in this context and then advocates carrying a 1911 w/ the safety off, is obviously suffering from a disconnect of major proportions. I doubt that you can make any headway w/ them over the internet. Or then again, maybe it's just their bias showing as opposed to their "well reasoned, logical conclusions".

Don't bother weighing factory ammo, don't even bother looking at it. Just shove it in the mag and go to town. If the ammo manufacturer recalls it, just ignore the warning and blast away. All you need is a camo, uber-tactical HK and you'll be just fine. It doesn't even matter what caliber you stuff into it. You can probably shoot 308 out of a 9mm HK w/o any problems, right Mars? I think I need rubber boots to even read some of this garbage.

I am not a TN certified instructor and I don't teach the permit class (just for clarification). I help a friend (as an RSO) who does teach the permit class and has taught other classes for many years. My experience mirrors Glockmeister's. If someone whats to actually learn, they will seek out and take a course. Most people just what to do the minimum and get a CCW. If an individual student whats to know something or appears likely to be receptive, it is worth the effort to try to show him/her a few things that might help him/her out. Most people don't care and show no interest in learning anything extra. In addition to this, the instructor has to teach to the lowest common denominator (crawl, walk, run). Remember, if it weren't mandated by the state, 99% of those folks wouldn't even be at the permit class. Also, anything you teach beyond the state's lesson plan is "on you". The people at the permit class are not the same as the ones at a pistol course. Their motivations and goals are completely different, as is, in all probably, their level of experience/knowledge. The old saw "keep it simple" comes to mind. A lot of these folks think they know all they need already. At the other end of the spectrum are the ones that don't really want to be "gun guys/gals", they just want to get the minimum and be able to carry a gun for protection. The 70 year old guy w/ a 32S&W revolver that hasn't been fired in 20 years isn't going to "get it" any more than the 22 year old who bought a SIG and doesn't know which lever is the decocker and which is the slide lock. It may sound jaded, but it's the truth. My friend offers a basic pistol class and lets everyone at the permit class know this. It is a good follow-up to the permit course and is generally offered at a discount price to folks who have taken the permit course. In addition to this, everyone who takes the basic pistol class can then shoot in bi-monthly "tactical" pistol matches at the range. 99% of the students never take up the offer and show absolutely no interest. Go figure. I understand strickj's opinion but I have to disagree. If you want a pistol course, seek out a good one and take it. To look for that kind of training at a permit course is folly and probably won't be what you are really looking for. To wrap this up, I guess I'll just sum it up like this: a lot of folks will say that an instructor's permit class was "great" or that they really "enjoyed it and learned a lot". But... how many come back and take other courses?

I'm surprised you had never seen that partial reload w/ a revolver. Notice I didn't say "tactical" reload. I try to avoid that word at all cost. I've got another one for you: When fired, which revolvers (cylinder) turn which way (clockwise/counterclockwise)? It may sound like a silly question but, if your revolver is empty and you only have time to load 1 or 2 rounds, it is the difference between BOOM BOOM and click, click, click, click, BOOM BOOM.

Speer has admitted that bad ammo caused the damage to the guns. Speer has admitted fault. Having said that, I don't know why people insist on making marginal cartridges and then being surprised when they have problems. By "marginal" I mean cartridges that are always "on the edge" (pressure, case volume, bullet seating depth, ect.). If one shortens the 45ACP case and tries to get the same performance, it stands to reason that some problems might crop up. A pistol is a pistol regardless. There are no phasers yet. Why not pick a gun that you shoot well and PRACTICE to become as proficient as possible instead of kidding yourself into thinking that one millimeter of bullet diameter or 100fps is going to be a magic solution to every problem. Give me a break. But what do I know, I said the same thing about the 40S&W and EVERYONE knows that it is now the best thing since sliced bread, right?

Do a search for collinscraftgrips. Mr Collins does fine work.

...about the S&W 3913. They're good guns, reliable and fairly inexpensive. Keep the G17 and try a 3913. JMHO.

Remind me not to go to the mall w/ Mars!