GhostDog

Right handed. Can shoot OK w/ left as long as it's "up close and ugly".

I'll post this in the hope that it might help someone on the board. The guy who taught me most of what I know about shooting and handguns (not that it's that much in my case, but that's my fault not his) also taught me about what he calls "stacking". We all know the 4 rules of gun safety (all guns are loaded, never cover anything you aren't willing to destroy, finger off trigger until you're ready to fire, and know your target and backstop). If you violate one rule, you will make yourself look stupid (ND) but no one will get hurt. Violate two rules and somebody's gonna get hurt or killed. Thus the term "stacking". It doesn't matter who you are, how good you are, or what kind of gun you carry, this still applies. Do people cover each other w/ finger on trigger in the heat of whatever might be going on? Yes, they do... but it still requires a trigger PULL even in this situation. Do police/military/everyone else get shot by their own sometimes? You know they do. Don't think that's a gun problem, but I may be wrong. You tell me.

I don't want to hurt your feelings, but most of us out here in flyover country don't put much stock in anything coming out of DC.

I tried a pistol w/ that set up. It had a snappier trigger return and slightly less take-up, but I couldn't tell much difference. One of those "princess and the pea" things. I prefer the stock set up. Glocks may not be for you. However, Glocks are like any other pistol. You have to work to become familiar w/ the gun/trigger. Modifications can also be made to S&W DA revolvers, but just shooting the gun will smooth up the action and help you get familiar w/ it (avoiding screwing around w/ the gun). Just my opinion...

I agree! Having said that, I would not carry a Glock w/ 3.5 pound trigger set up for competition. By the same token, I wouldn't carry a 1911 w/ 3 lb comp trigger. The 5lb factory trigger is just fine and will work as advertised. Fast first shot and quick trigger reset, what else could you ask for? Putting a heavier trigger in the Glock (8lb/12lb New York triggers) doesn't fix anything. It is simply a liability/let's cover our butts move by administrators (who are probably not shooters). It's no different than making a DA/SA revolver into a DOA. This was done by some PDs in the past... didn't work. Equipment is a one time expense, training is on-going. One is cheap and the other requires a COMMITMENT to continuing work and spending money. Which do you thing the average admin type would choose? I understand Mars' argument to a degree and would agree that there is a minimum for a trigger on a carry gun. We just don't agree on where to draw the line. The purpose of a defensive pistol is to defend oneself and others. The gun should be set up so that the shooter can hit the target if he/she must use the gun. Remember, we also responsible for the bullets that miss our intended target too. If you choose a DA/SA, SA, striker fired pistol or DA revolver, it will still come down to training and experience (and probably some luck). Maybe we're spending too much time worrying about equipment and not enough on things that are more important like awareness, tactics, and training. Unfortunately, all those things are more expensive and require more work to get and maintain. Maybe that is the real problem, hmm....... could it be that too many people (police and just us regular joes) prefer the quick/cheap/easy "fix" to a real examination of the problem at hand? If I have my finger on the trigger and am: holstering my pistol or running over uneven ground (you name your own situation) and something happens (I fall down/I am startled/someone screams at me), do you think it will matter what type the gun is? Just something to think about.

Learning a lot here, thanks guys! Also, molon, deflagration would be a good "Bill O'Reilly word".

Maybe we could alternate between the two, one month in Oak Ridge (right in my backyard) and one in the Tri-Cities area.

I think this is the only way to make any difference. The responders, by definition, have to respond which takes time, too much time. School Resource Officers are a good start, but they can hardly be expected to handle this kind of problem alone (not to mention the fact that not all PDs put their best and brightest in SRO positions). I think that it should be optional for teachers who are willing to take a certain level of training and accept the responsibility of carrying the gun on their person at all times. It also cannot be common knowledge within the school (to students) which teachers are carrying. This in conjunction with other measures would help a great deal in case of an "active shooter" situation. Someone must be on scene and prepared to act. Anything else is just too little, too late. I would suggest that anyone who is interested in this topic (particularly those who are against it) do a little research on the Beslan school attack in Russia. It will open your eyes as to what we might be up against. I know this may be seen as an "apple to oranges" comparison, but armed teachers has worked well for the Israelis.

That is a good observation. Glocks do have more "generous" sized chambers in all calibers. All one has to do is compare fired brass to see this. Resizing the brass doesn't seem to affect 45ACP or 9MM nearly as much as it does 40S&W, but it does bear watching in all calibers.

I think all manufacturers say not to use reloads and I'm sure it's about liability. Glocks/HKs don't like lead bullets because of the rifling. They lead up quickly which causes pressure spikes. As to the "copper washed" bullets, some have thicker jackets than others which goes back to the leading problem. One poster said he used a single stage press, which is what I did and luckily never had any problems. I also stuck to jacketed bullets and didn't try to reinvent the wheel with hot loads. I think that any reloader who is careful and checks their reloads will not have any problems using THEIR OWN reloads. I would NOT shoot someone else's reloads. I know a few people who were reloading 40S&W when it first came out. I was told that the brass was "fragile" but don't have any personal experience to back this up. 45ACP and 9MM brass will last a long time as long as it's not loaded hot, but it seems that 40S&W brass is not nearly as long lasting/strong. I don't know if that is still the case or not and, as I said, I don't have any PERSONAL experience to support this. If you mix weak/worn out brass with a Glock chamber (which has less support than some other designs), you are looking for trouble. Don't blame the car if you drive it into a ditch.

We don't disagree about everything. You make some good points but I still disagree about the Glock trigger. It's advantages outweigh the disadvantages in my humble opinion. The person using the gun has to know the weapon and make their own decision. It's hard to beat a Glock for that first shot and short/quick trigger reset. Based on what you said about how you employ your USP, it seems we both seek the same thing in a carry gun, we just don't agree on how to accomplish it. Speaking of DA triggers, I only recently became familiar with shooting Beretta pistols (believe it or not) and found the DA trigger on a Beretta to be one of the best (smoothest) I have ever used. I hope the guys on the forum here can organize the East Tennessee TGO "get together". I would like to meet you guys.

because I really don't care if it's a ford or chevy as long as it goes "vroom" when I turn the key and doesn't have to go to the shop every other week. Mars, Again I'll say that I'm not trying to start anything with you. You obviously have a wealth of experience so... please believe me when I say that I'm smiling as I type the following: I noticed that when you mentioned the USP and Beretta being repeatable, you mentioned the SA mode and not the DA mode. Maybe you should try a Glock again. {said jokingly, let's keep it civil}

Believe it or not, I'm not trying to get into a "peepee" contest with you. I respect your opinion, I just disagree. 1- The same quality that makes it easier to fire inadvertently also makes it easier to fire fast and accurately. 2- "Back in the day" the Beretta was knocked because it could be taken apart by a "bad guy" while a "good guy" was holding the loaded pistol. This is not a shooting problem, it's a gun handling problem (meaning an "operator" problem). All guns should be checked before anyone tries to take them apart. Changing guns/designs won't fix this. 3- This chamber problem seems to be a 40S&W problem rather than a Glock problem. I don't know why Glock hasn't changed this unless they fear it will affect reliability. I do know that many police depts love their 40 Glocks and have not had any problems. I suspect that the problem is more ammo related than most folks will admit. Are other 40S&W pistols more tolerant of "less than optimum" ammo? Probably, but that doesn't mean that the problem is mostly a Glock problem. If a man wants to be able to shoot crappy 40S&W ammo, don't get a Glock. Personally, I don't really care for 40S&W. If I were to want a 40, I would probably get a Beretta/Stoeger Cougar. These were designed for the 40 so they are NOT 9mms that were "redesigned" to handle the 40. It's kind of like squeezing a fat guy into a VW Beetle: you might be able to do it, but that don't make it a good idea.

This just my opinion, so take it for whatever you think it's worth: I don't buy into the "Glocks are unsafe" theory. If the guns were unsafe, everyone else would not be in such a hurry to copy them/follow in Glock's footsteps. The gun functions as it was designed to and does it very well. The Glock functions just like a DA revolver. Is the trigger lighter? Yes, it is but the function is the same. Is the revolver more tolerant of a finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be? Yes, but only slightly. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Trying to make an "idiot proof" gun is an exercise in futility. I help one of our local instructors with permit classes. I don't teach the class, I just help out as an RO with the shooting portion of the class (I am no expert and don't claim to be). I have made a few observations; Most people can use their sights and, if they understand trigger control, can put holes in a target. However, when it comes to gun handling, far too many are clueless. Many don't understand how their own gun functions regardless of the gun type. More levers do not solve their problem. Can you suggest that they may be better off with a good DA revolver? You sure can, but they won't listen. Then again, some people buy their 16 year old a brand new Mustang and then wonder why the car is wrecked and their child injured. You ain't gonna fix it, they have to figure it out for themselves. As far as "trained professionals" are concerned, some of the same observations apply. I was a police officer for over 10 years. Again I'll say that I'm no expert but I did notice a few things. Skill level varies from individual to individual. Give a man a rope, it don't make him a cowboy. There are plenty of cops out there who are little better than the average joe when it comes to gun handling. Not a knock on cops, just the way it is. It's up to the individual to build skill. Most departments train to the lowest common denominator. DA/SA pistols are slightly more tolerant of the "finger on the trigger" problem UNTIL the first shot is fired. After that, they are actually worse. I'm sure there are plenty of cases of "trained professionals" trying to holster a cocked DA/SA pistol with predictable results. If a person is uncomfortable with Glocks, buy another pistol but it ain't gonna fix the problem. You can put a heavier trigger (8lb/12lb) in the Glock if it helps you sleep at night but it ain't gonna fix your problem. I am NOT trying to sound superior and I hope this won't be taken that way. I'm no better than anyone else. I could have an ND tomorrow but it's MY RESPONSIBILITY to prevent it, not a gun's. Before anyone brings this up let me say: I am not Gaston Glock, do not sell Glocks, and do not own stock in the company. I just like the guns. I have owned and carried many different guns. I like 1911s, S&W pistols, and Berettas as well. Don't care for SIGs but they are fine pistols. All that is required of a good self defense pistol is that it go bang when you pull the trigger and keep going bang until you stop pulling the trigger. Other than that, the choice is yours. Pick what you shoot best.

Just to add to what Phantom said, membership is not expensive ($120 per year) and the ranges/facilities are top notch (not to mention the 1000 yard rifle range). I'm a pistol shooter but I like the fact that I can do the rifle/shotgun shooting if I choose.

When I was shooting a lot of 45ACP, I reloaded. I was very careful and used a single stage press. It was slower but allowed for better QC. I didn't load "hot" loads (practice ammo only) and stuck to jacketed bullets. I never had a problem (knock on wood). Glocks do not like lead bullets (nor do HKs if I'm not mistaken). It is due to the rifling they use. If you want to shoot lead, get an aftermarket barrel. The advantage is that the Glock and HK barrels will squeeze a little higher velocity out of the same ammo/load than conventional barrels. You have to take the good with the bad. As some other posters noted, some ammo is just garbage. Don't use it in any gun you like.

I've used it and never had any problems (9mm). I use their "First Defense" in 9mm. It is similar to Cor Bon DPX but in a lighter bullet weight (92.6grns vs 115grns). Never any problems and shoots well.

I was shocked to read that Memphis was TRAILING Florence, SC. I grew up in Florence and, although it's been years since I've been back, I was very surprised to see this. It was rough when I was growing up but I had no idea it had gotten this bad.

What Tungsten said!

Depends on what you are looking for. I've ordered online (AMMOMAN among others) without any problems but it depends. Sometimes Walmart is better but you can find more variety and some good deals online.

I always seem to come back to a 9mm Glock. The G17 and G19 are my favorite handguns. I've owned and shot MANY different guns but always return to the Glocks. I'm waiting right now for a 2nd gen 17 to arrive!

CCA has an indoor range and a wide variety of guns that you can rent. You might give them a call to check prices/particular guns that you can rent.

Another vote for American Handgunner here. It's an excellent gun rag. Combat Handguns ain't too shabby either.

If an officer "runs" your DL, it will show that you have a permit. I agree with you, it's better to let them know rather than making them ask. Please do write that letter or call the department. As an ex-cop, I can tell you that it will mean a lot. Too many call to complain, but few go to the trouble to say thanks.

dkd83, "Down Range" in Kingston (376-1138) also do the permit class. They do one class per month and they are good folks. I'm pretty sure they do the class for $50 but you can call and check.