GLOCKMEISTER

Brother its not big deal, Im sure you teach a fine course and when you have been doing it as long as I have you will see what Im saying.... You may also discover the same things me and the guys at PRI have figured out. Peace out...

No I actually didnt take any class to be a permit instructor, I was already qualified to teach back before we were fighting to get the original legislation passed in 1993. Anyway... Frank your absolutely right, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... and for the last 15 years ive been extremely flattered, thats all. It just strikes a nerve with me. So hey, its no biggie... your time and your money. I'll be busy teaching. Keep your powder dry...

Gene, the restaurant bill is the biggy... its still tabled, correct? Sometimes it better to lay low and wait and see what we can get done... isnt it? Dont you think we can slip it thru or out of commitee... I think we still have a good chance to get it to the floor. I want this guy gone as much as any of you, but pissing him off even more is only going to make him sit thru every committee meeting they have, holding his bladder, until the end of session... right?

yep... guys we have come a long way since then, Thanks John Harris!

means if the bill passed you can carry in a place that sells alcohol for on-site consumption.

You can thank Harold Stockburger for your right to carry in this State. I was there and remember all the time he spent on it. I also remember the media was making him look like a real idiot... but then there was an outcry from the people. This was an extremely popular bill. At first the Dems fought it, so did the Sheriffs Association... Hell even some of the radical NRA people fought it ...then all the sudden, they all flipped. The Sheriffs saw a controlling factor, and the Dems wanted to claim credit, and the extreme part of NRA decided tofollow the NRA norm. In any event it all worked out... as I remember it was a hard road, but these past years getting other stuff thru has been just as hard. Tennesseans owe to lots of people for their carry permit privileges, but just remember one thing, it was a lowly and ridiculed Republican Rep. from Cleavland Tennessee that made it all happen.

I dont have a problem with Democrat's, its all about liberalism and conservatism to me. Some of the biggest Conservatives I know are Democrats.

Please dont take offense... but... You talk about others here with "minimum mindset" however it appears by your own admission you use that same "minimum mindset" you criticize others for having, to develop your own course... If your a State Instructor and you go and take multiple classes covering the same material you teach... then your basically.. going to spy? Right? I mean thats the truth... If I go to class at Gun Site, PRI or Thunder ranch... it doesn't cover anything in the TCA... or anything about the Tennessee carry permit. Its about me getting better at extreme firearms and self defense tactics. But if thats your thing, its not like it top secret.. then so be it.. I guess its just me, I have been frustrated for 15 years over others stealing my ideas, as simple as they are, and using them because they lack originality. Co-dos to you for having time on your hands to take permit classes while others are busy teaching them... I guess its just money in others pockets.... Btw.. I agree with what you say prepares you for a gunfight... but the permit course wasnt meant to prepare people for a gunfight either. Want that, find a level 2-3 course. Now if you want to talk liability, call John M. L. Brown and ask him why they teach the 8 hour course at PRI? You take their classes right, must be for a reason??? Hope I didnt offend...im out..

agree.... 100%

whast not wrong... it would take less time to cover whats right...

I understand where you are coming from, but the State mandates we teach a certain way... two FULL days simply isnt it. Thats not a permit course. The required state outline is pretty specific and set up for 8-10 hours. If you are teaching two times whats mandated then you are giving allot more knowledge then the State requires or wants you to do. This, I have been told by some of the best in the industry, opens you up for future liability. If that particular instructor isnt teaching more then is mandated then he's filling some of that time up making up stories and BSing your way thru it to simply take up time. Then they can claim, "We teach two days and our courses are better"... when thats simply not true. If you want the BEST TN PERMIT CLASS OUT THERE... Ck these guys out... Its like GUNSITE IN TENNESSEE and yes they are my completion, but the truth is the truth... I consider them equal to or better then our PERMIT class. And extremely better with their other classes. http://www.prifirearmstraining.com/instructors.html .... So yep, I think I can say that without shooting myself in the foot... they are the best... and they teach an 8 hour course called Handgun 1(Tn permit course) its the same thing we teach... and were allot closer. Both our classes Meets and exceeds Tennessee's training requirements for a handgun carry permit. The course covers handgun nomenclature, firearms safety, loading and unloading, marksmanship, proper presentation of the weapon, safe and effective weapons handling, and legal issues affecting the armed citizen. Its simply what the state mandates we ALL teach. Now im not saying all theses two day schools are bad schools, but if they are really "teaching" then they are teaching "tactics" the state didnt/doesnt intend to be part of the course. The state course was set up to be all about safety and the law. Its about teaching the novice thats never shot before. If you have a class full of shooters then you can take them a little farther at your own descretion... but not full tactical. An good instructor can make the 8-10 hour course as difficult as he/she deems necessary, and those whom need failing get failed. In closing if you want the extra mile... we can do it, and there are lots of great instructors that can make you a special forces super ninja defense robot... but those things shouldnt be covered in a permit class built for the beginner.

Thanks T1, we'll see you then... and until the 5th keep your powder dry!

Not denigrating or criticizing, really? But, see heres my theory... In one day you can give the student exactly what the State says they have to know to receive their permit, we usually go over a little bit, but two days? From a liability standpoint why deviate from the mandatory outline and hours set forth by the State? What if you teach them more then you should in a permit course that is required for them to get their license and it winds up in court???? How can you defend it in court if you taught them some "tactics" that were used incorrectly and ended up getting them in trouble. I say teach the course... don't go overboard... they can learn "tactics" that weren't mandated by law in a level 2-3 course of some kind. This takes allot of the liability of your shoulders as an instructor. Btw.... Why did you take courses from 4 different schools??? In all my 15 years of teaching the permit course, I have never taken a course from another State instructor... I just don't understand the point. If you want ideas on how to run your course im sure it would be cheaper and less time consuming to just ask. I have always been willing to help out another instructor, im sure others out there feel the same way. In short I choose to use what the State mandates in teaching using professional experience to effectively run that course of study. No offense to any civilian permit holders, but Im not training police officers or special forces... want that course, fine we can do that, but the State Handgun Permit course is what it is... its for a carry permit. And 8-10 hours is enough.

Well, I'll give my 2 cents... I really dont care what any other instructor's think of me, and let me say this first...Im not perfect, nor the best. But.... I wont name names, so please dont ask, but there are several schools that give complete courses in 2-4 hours total. And to be honest, this really ticks me off.... I have been teaching these classes (Tn Permit) in particular since 1993... I know of 4 schools right now that their instructors/owners came thru my class, which gave them the idea to start thiers.... they think its easy quick money(I wish)... One actually copied my lesson plan and booklet and used it as his work. I also know two Sheriffs dept's and one police Dept. that doesnt meet the States guidelines, they feel like they are above the law. I mean honestly why can they be allowed to compete with free commerce??? Can the State of Tn dept of transportation, or any county road dept. come and give me a bid and concrete my driveway... then how can a law enforcement entity legally compete with me??? Anyways that a whole other thing... Back to the subject at hand, over the years I have left the gun range a many of times with my lips numb from the lead in the air and a headache that wouldnt quit.... sweaty and tired... ears ringing.... I used to teach a 10 hour course, we shot 150 rounds... but way back then the State told me I was teaching citizens too much, so because of liability we decided to keep it simple and teach exactly what the State mandates, explain the gray areas, and then teach the student whats going to keep them out of trouble. So far its worked really well... (knock on wood) never had a student thats had any kind of negative altercation with LE or been involved in a shooting. These classes usually takes a full 8 hours to do an average class size and do it right... and I dont tell 4-6 hours of old war stories either. I can tweak a class if they are all "shooters"... teach them more tactics, but all in all it usually involves common sense, safety, and the law. So lets be honest for a bit... if any citizen wants a class thats doesnt meet all the state criteria, then they can find one... and its usually the cheaper ones too. And if that person goes that route and their instructor gets busted then they are up a creek. But think of this scenario... what if the student wasnt trained correctly and gets involved in a shooting... then what??? I say do it right the first time and dont worry about it. There are plenty of instructors out here doing it right, finding one shouldnt be a problem... that is if the citizen really want a good one. Just ...IMHO... M2C...

i have one left, its the regular blue steel black frame...

I think the only one we have a chance at getting is House Bill 702... If we get any of the rest then its gravy.

nope its state wide regulated and required by TBI

Guys, I have been doing this for a long time... we will never get multiple gun bills thru in one session. I actually see this as hope that the other one will now pass. At least we can maybe get it slipped thru or something.

yep... and its usless. Back when I was a Cop I couldnt never ever get prints right, the FBI aways kicked mine back... I had to resort to getting another officer to do it when one was available. And I went thru 6 TBI print classes over the years. So this means since TBI has NVER sent any dealers to a print class, how are they supposed to do it right? Honestly I do them but dont worry about how good they are, becasue they will never ever be used anyway.

you know those fingerprint cards are useless, I really mean they have no purpose at all and cost the tax payers lots of money.

its today.... at least if its the one about carry in restaurants.

nope, it just takes up the whole evening.... sorry I wasn't clearer

gotta link where you found that, and what will I need to make it run?

me too... if its really that small people will still pay the premium to buy them. The one draw back to the LCP is its not yet stainless...

What she said is correct.... and thank you for your service. :usa: