GLOCKMEISTER

They dont want me...

two questions to ask yourself, does the lakes dam have a lock system? Does bardges travel that lake? Does it empty to another lake that has a dam? iF THESE APPLY, THEN ITS A NAVIGATABLE WATERWAY.

Yep, you know I look at it from both sides. Its just hard to explain it to someone that hasn't "been there and done that".... kinda like me talking to a proven combat veteran, even though police work has smilier life threatening situations and I'd like to think I know what I'd do in combat.... but having never been there I dont have a clue how I might react. Does anyone for that matter?

YES...

I agree... any time I get stopped and they are using BS.. I kinda mess with them back, but Im in a lil different situation to be able to get by with it then any other regular citizen and its all in fun.

hey the Tennessee River runs thru Knoxville... your good to go there.

yea, I'll post it when I dig it out of my files. I gave Gene from Legally Armed a copy of one of them about 10 years ago so its no biggie. And what Mars said above is correst... so like here in Nashville your good to go on Old Hickory, Cheatham, Barckley, and Kentucky Lakes.... but not Percy Priest.

and I agree, but you have to admit. If the Border Patrol were truly doing these ck points/road blocks/ or stops illegally there would be law suits and the ACLU would be all over it... In our liberal society they simply wouldn't be able to continue. I think it falls under Homeland Security. On the other side of it, the guy with the camera must have a pretty good "angle of aggravation" because he hasn't faced charges of some kind yet. I went to his website and watched most of his videos... its fascinating and really funny as hell.

wonder what that would do to the new weight charges... it could cost you more then you are ready for... just an FYI 2 beware of.

as long as you are navigating a navigable waterway, Basically Cumberland or Tennessee River, lake or tributary you are good to go. I have a letter from the Dept of Safety and TWRA concerning this.

btw, back to the subject at hand. I spoke to a federal agent friend of mine just a few minutes ago. He told me, the BP has jurisdiction to make any stop without PC or RAS in certain areas due to so many remote unmanned access points along our southern border. They can make a stop for no reason at all because you are on a road that ran in close proximity to one of those access points. And yes, 50 miles is close proximity. Not coming from me, Im just passing it along.

What about an investigatory stop using Reasonable Articulable Suspicion?

Guys this is strictly hypothetical btw... and RAS is BS... but its usable BS to a LEO. And it is RAS if your arrest stats back it up that big white SUVs are involved in illegal activites, especially in a particular place and time and registered in another particular place. It gives you more leadway then pc... thats all Im saying, and thats what the BP was using is RAS not PC.

is it a navigatable waterway... if so then you can, but I dont think it is.

It has nothing to do with probable cause... it has everything to do with "Reasonable Articulable Suspicion" and it does if the "common vehicle" is a commonly used vehicle used in illegal activities and you have reason to believe That: A crime has been committed, a crime is being committed, a crime is about to be committed AND the person about to be stopped or detained is the person whom did or is about to do a crime. Probable cause deals with the "fair probability" that a crime has been committed and the person in question committed it. Its two totally different things my friend.

btw I said successful drug mules... if you see them getting pulled over and searched then they arent very successful ...and it is all about the stats... really, they have to make all kinds of stops to be able to articulate the ones that matter. You probably wont ever be able to get teh stats on what races do what... thats documented profiling, so you will never know... but the officers know in the back of their minds. Btw, Blacks and Mexicans smuggle... but they usually arent the ones carrying the really big loads... and almost never the money.

its called "reasonable suspicion with articulable facts"... for instance... you have stats showing you made 100 stops on a specific stretch of highway, you have arrested 75 persons for smuggling drugs using large white SUV vehicles with Texas or Illinois plates. Therefor you have reason to believe the drug smugglers are using large white SUVs with Texas or Illinois plates... right? btw, several years ago one of the largest drug bust in this area involved an elderly couple that was using their Caddy to deliver to drug dealers on their way to church. Btw.. profiling is BS too, most successful drug mules are attractive white women between 20-35 years of age.

Wrong.... smugglers use people as decoys all the time that have cleared ck points... they eventually turn them into the mules because they have been cked so many times by LEOs they think the LEOs wont keep bothering with checking them. Thus its become customary to recheck people you think you know are clean.

i agree 100%.... I think the Arizona Dept. Of Safety and Transportation sanctioned the BP to conduct traffic check operations using those ck points. I would also bet they had a local or state officer present. In any event thats all up to Arizona law... which I dont have a clue about. So who knows. The guy in question went thru their roadblocks at least 20 times, so if they could have detained or arrested him Im sure they would have. So there must be a reason they didnt... who knows. Im all for LEOs doing the job the right way and following the letter of the law, if they dont do that I think they should be held criminally and civilly liable.

First of all let me say this. This guy with the camera appears to have nothing better to do then go and find every ck point set up by federal agents in Arizona... I mean thats all he appears to do, run around with a video camera all day long. This is IMHO and from my experience...most "large contraband" is smuggled or shipped in large vehicles. So the vehicle this guy chooses to drive around in is exactly the type of vehicle the BP is looking for. He is driving on a route used by smugglers and the BP has arrested multiple smugglers on this roadway. They aren't targeting him... they are stopping vehicles at random and asking for information. He chooses to keep going thru their road blocks... if they were smart they would just waive him by and dont give him any attention. They have now made contact with him and determined he's harmless. But that in it's self could be an even better reason to stop him. Now again, they may not have the right to do so in Arizona... I dont know. But here in Tennessee if a THP Trooper Supervisor sets up a roadblock to confirm drivers licenses... A Trooper is on the scene ... they can ask random vehicle drivers for TNDL... and if you are the "unlucky" person that gets asked.... I dare you not to tell them. If you refuse to answer them, then you can be arrested for driving without a license, Tn motorists are required to show their Drivers license to a police officer if asked for it. Your refusal to answer imply you don't have one. If your refusal continues then you can be arrested for disorderly conduct. If the officer asked you to get out of the vehicle and you refuse... then your resisting arrest.... and it can go on and on and on.... In short... and I'm all for protecting rights, but why be so reluctant to help LEOs. Their jobs are tough enough, they dont need to be made tougher just for giggles and hocky.

btw... charges of what, detaining you when you refused a lawful order from a police officer when I had reasonable suspicion to believe you might be hiding aliens illegally in the United States, drugs, or weapons in your big SUV ?

Rabbi, please no offense but why was it NOT a legal ck point/road block? Your just assuming it wasn't. They have a right to set them up looking for aliens illegally in the United States if they have reasonable suspicion the route is being used to transport aliens to other places in the United States. By your logic your saying DEA/Federal Judicial Drug units cant make stops of set up ck points either? If these were illegal stops then thousands of drug traffickers would be set free every day. Ever see the big white Suburbans out on 65, 24 or 40? If it wasn't a legal ck point the dude behind the camera or your friends at the ACLU would have already done something about it. This guy with the camera is an azzhole with a little man complex and no respect for authority

bullhocky... If that was a legal ck point, and it probably was, the Border Patrol officer had every right to ask a simple question. In fact, and like I stress, if it was a legal ck point, they had a right to ask for identification as well. Now Im not up on Arizona law, but in Tennessee to have a "ck point" or a "road block" you HAVE to have a State Trooper present to ask for a Drivers License. Other Law Enforcement Officers can effect the "ck point" or "road block" but have to ask for ID only. To me this is a simple "Terry Stop"... using reasonable suspicion of criminality to establish a ck point or road block. Its easily articulated and defended in court, and backed by the Supreme Court decisions. The person is driving a motor vehicle, so if the ck point or road block is manned with the appropriate personnel to ask for said drivers license, you have to answer the officer asking the question. The problem was/is the "citizen"... at least we assume he was, he never answered the question... had an attitude and controlled the situation from the very start. The officer felt threatened the first time she looked at the camera. She was intimidated by it, why? Another more seasoned officer would have handled it differently. The camera can be your friend as easily as your enemy. A smart officer would have used it against him. So for instance when the officer approached the vehicle they maybe should have acted like this.... keep in mind if this was indeed a legally assembled ck point!!! When the officer asked him a question, and he didn't reply... because the window was up.... I would have said... "Sir, I need to speak with you can you please roll down the window"? Then I would have told him my name, rank, and what agency I worked for and what the reason for the stop was. I would have then asked him... "Sir I need to see some I identification please".... When he came up with all that other stuff like..."Am I being detained"? "Am I free to go"... I would have Asked him again... "Sir I need to see some identification please".... Then when he still didn't comply.... "Sir, do you understand English"? I would say in Spanish "Compreder Ingles?... Compreder Espanol?".... The guy would probably be frustrated at this point not knowing what to do because I would have shifted the situation in my favor on camera... But then at the last minute you think the guy looked familiar you might ask him... "Aquello tu Rabino"? When you find out its not your friend... then you continue asking for his Identification like this.... in which ever language he used immediately after you asked the earlier questions. So then you ask... "Sir, Im giving you a lawful order, I need to see your Identification please, If you refuse to obey the lawful order and show proof of Identification I will have to assume you have none and you could be an alien illegally in these United States"... Keep in mind this is all caught on camera by this guy, and if a ck point/road block is set up properly it should be caught on your police cameras as well. In any event by this time there should be another officer approaching to see what the problem is so now you have a witness. Then you ask the guy, "Sir is there anything I can say to get you to cooperate with me and show me some Identification"?.... If he's still noncomplying, and you feel he may be a danger to the public or citizens of the United States because it appears he's hiding something, maybe a weapon... AND YOU HAVE “specific and articulable facts” backing you up. You then use whatever appropriate lawful force necessary to remove him from the vehicle and place him under arrest for the appropriate lawful charge. And at this point, there are probably several laws you can articulate that he has broken. Keep in mind, this all depends on if its a lawful ck point, roadblock, or stop. You have to have a reason to assemble the ck point, roadblock, or stop. And you have to follow all appropriate laws and or rules... which I'm no longer up to date on, but an officer in that position should be. So see, all the guy had to do is answer a question. So now this guy goes to jail for probably being nothing more then a stupid azzhole. Deservingly, maybe... maybe not, it depends on your opinion. You guys have to understand. LEO's have a job to do, doing that job correctly means our country is safer... period. Im all for protecting citizens rights, but you can protect them and be a responsible citizen as well. If you refuse to act like a responsible citizen, and start acting like a criminal then why get offended when your treated like one?

230 grain Ranger... There is nothing that slices and dices the inside guts of a bad guy better.

Im trying but that combo is really hard to come up with, and that price is unbelieveable. Your sure that was a new gun, with the Walther laser, otd with tax and background? I have found the gun in a Cal version but As of right now for the combo, its not looking good.