GLOCKMEISTER

Thank you thats my point exactly, that means by law they are weapons... All other weapons that are legal to carry are defined by the TCA under the other section with a defense of prosecution. Tasers and chemical sprays arent mentioned... therefore they are considered prosecutable.

come by and see us sometime when you back up our way, we'd love to have ya

thank you so much for the kind words.

We hashed this out quite a bit already... http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/2nd-amendment-issues/24291-atf-kills-tn-firearms-freedom-act.html

if you OC your just asking for trouble, if no one knows then nothing will be said or done.

this draws too many red flags...

thats complete BS... AG'S OPINION THAT IS

we have it.... at least right now we do. :-)

another example of an uninformed police officer making up the law as he goes. You would be supprised how many officers think this. I advise voluntering the information, but there is no requirment to do so by law unless he asks.

Ha ha... Its all good, but... im not letting you off the hook that easy, you still didnt answer my other questions? Are you saying... they arent weapons and you CANT BE CHARGED FOR CARRYING A WEAPON if found in possession of it on the street, airport, or in your car? Whats the difference in taser/spray and an ice pick, penny roll, or broken glass.... and all the other things I used as an example. There is no exclusions/exeptions for defense of prosecution in the T.C.A. If they are carrying them for protection or brandishing them as a weapon then they are weapons. If you pulled over a car full of POS gangbangers and they had a taser, ice pick, penny roll, crow bar, hammer, or ball bat you wouldnt arrest them for carrying a weapon? If so, or if not please explain why/why not.

Mitch, its clearly your right to OC. But if I remember right didnt you almost get hooked up (arrested) in Hendersonville for open carrying. At the dollar store? I admit they were wrong to hassel you, but it did happen before right? Was that you or someone else?

Damned, can no one here use google.... I heard about it years ago in a gang class I took for inservice when I was with the SO. Heres a few links about the latest attempt earlier this year. Theres a homeland security advisory too, and an FB I memo but I dont have time to look for it. Illegals targeted sheriff as gang initiation - Washington Times ALIPAC - Illegal Alien Gang Initiation: Attempted Murder of US Police Officer! Attempted murder of cop was gang initiation (OneNewsNow.com)

btw, sorry gunner I was just trying to help. Bo's right we shouldnt have taken over the thread.

said they "know about you" didnt say they "served" with you. Listing friends names isnt too classy on the web. One that im pretty sure you know left metro and is now an attorney. SW is his initials. I dont know if he knew you, but he agreed with me about this and you should know him he lives on the same road me and the judge live on. Wanna know come by, i'll bye you a coke and we can talk about it. Thats about all I have to offer about other people. Dont wanna enrage the pizzing contest anymore then it has already been. Now wanna answer my other questions? If you pulled over a car full of POS gangbangers and they had a taser, ice pick, penny roll, crow bar, hammer, or ball bat you wouldnt arrest them for carrying a weapon? If so, or if not please explain why/why not.

Groundhog day.... LMAO More googleing screw that... I never said anyones been arrested for it much less convicted, im tired of looking up crap for this thread. I said "they technically arent legal to carry, and you COULD BE ARRESTED" not buy or own. Are you saying they are??? Seriously, your ready to stake your rep on it? Tell me they are totally legal for a civilian to carry as a weapon. Are you saying... they arent weapons and you CANT BE CHARGED FOR CARRYING A WEAPON if found in possession of it on the street, airport, or in your car? Whats the difference in taser/spray and an ice pick, penny roll, or broken glass.... and all the other things I used as an example. If they are carrying them for protection or brandishing them as a weapon then they are weapons. If you pulled over a car full of POS gangbangers and they had a taser, ice pick, penny roll, crow bar, hammer, or ball bat you wouldnt arrest them for carrying a weapon? If so, or if not please explain why/why not. Im not trying to be an azz, just wanna learn you reasoning for your conclusion and differences in the items above. :P

I guess its time to call a spade a spade. Sad this threads turned into such a pizzing match. Todd, whats your deal with me, maybe I missed something. Please enlighten me as how I have wronged you or didn't answer any specific point made???? Please don't say its the "you sell it" bs. I thought I addressed the valid points, at least to Bo's comments. You evidently have an issue with me. I was simply replying to this because I got called out. And I dont mind that, thus the reason I check my facts then try and articulate my response. If I misspeak I admit it like earlier. I have asked several people about this, actually several that know about you from your brief stint with metro, want names? I even made it clear earlier whom you could ask in your own county. I mean what more do you want? Them to call you? Hell, come up and see me and i'll make sure one of the several judges that live around here can stop by for a chat. Or anyone else for that matter. And what exactly are you implying about me when you say.... "continue to sell these items to the public, what does that say about you?" Maybe you not knowing the freaking law says something about you? Huh? To answer your question, So I sell pepper spray in key chain sizes to the public, so what, its not illegal to sell it or possess it for the right purpose. I supplied the law saying it. Who doesn't sell it? Everyone sells it, Walmart to Walgreens, but it doesn't mean you can carry it for the purpose of a weapon. I know it sounds silly, but thats the facts. It depends on intent and officer discretion. I have been a chemical weapons instructor for 18 years, and been selling freeze+p for 15 years. So why would I lie? Its the truth, and doesn't benefit me to be pointing it out. The fact is like I stated before, they can be a weapon. So can an ice pick, ink pen, piece of glass, a crowbar, or a pair of scissors. Used in their prescribed manner they aren't a weapon, but their use can be changed to be a weapon. It depends on the intent of the carrier. Therefor you can be charged with it as a weapon if the officer feels he wants to push it to that length. The TCA makes certain exclusions in the defense of prosecution for certain things... chemical agents and tasers aren't in there. Neither are ice picks, ink pens, pieces of glass, crowbars, or a pair of scissors. So if there isn't a exclusion, then anything not listed could be. Question: So what your telling me is, if you stop some gang banger and he's carrying a ice pick, a ball bat, or a penny roll tapped up... you cant arrest him for carrying a weapon? The key is this, can spray or taser be weapons, YES. So can an ice pick, penny roll, crow bar, ball bat or piece of glass. Can they all inflict serious bodily injury? Yes! A weapon is a tool used to apply or threaten to apply force for the purpose of hunting, attack or defense in combat. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon So by definition, they are all weapons. Its up to the officers discretion, and the State to prove if their intention was to carry it as a weapon. I feel I have made my point and drove it into the ground. I welcome debate, but I feel this has turned too personal for whatever reason. Wanna answer in an educated way, fine if not im out. I welcome any police officer, judge or attorney that want to publically put their reputation into this thread for clarification.

btw, I spoke with a local Judge today and he agreed as well. I guess since you guys didnt answer my question I take it were now on the same page.

the bolts arent the only problem with these guns. The barrels are crap as well. They are no where close to being as accruate as SA'a and wont last as long. There was a torture test in one of the gun mags several years back that showed the real SA's outshooting the Poly 10 times over, and when the bolt broke and barrel shot out they replaced those with the SA's and kept on shooting. Great read. Honestly its not a bad rifle, but it will never be a springfield without spending lots more money. I'd shop around and just get a used Springfield if I were you and money allowed.

I love these guns, we have one in stock i have been tepted to take home.... one i kinda hope no one buys soon

xd or glock would be my choice depending on how they feel in your hand

RUGER 10/22, he will use it the rest of his life. If you get anything less you will wind up buying it anyway in the future.... book it

sounds cool to me... Btw I feel the same way you do about sky busting and HUI'ing.... I'd take you up on your offer but I got a sweet spot already in Dover Bottoms and close to Big Sandy

well wheres the NRA when ya need'em????????

:):p:p:p Hey guys no ones being snotty or sarcastic, sorry you took it that way. I just dont understand when people ask for a reference, when they should know the answer. I mean in my mind this is simple as 2+2. I cant believe you dont get it. Again im not being snotty, just amazed. 1st off were getting off point into irrelevant statistics and information that doesnt matter. Thats probably my fault for misspeaking earlier. It has nothing to do with death anyway, its simple as can the item cause "serious bodily injury". Question: So what your telling me is, if you stop some gang banger and he's carrying a ice pick or a penny roll tapped up... you cant arrest him for carrying a weapon? The key is this, can spray or taser be weapons, YES. So can an ice pick, penny roll, crow bar, or piece of glass. Can they all inflict serious bodily injury? Yes! A weapon is a tool used to apply or threaten to apply force for the purpose of hunting, attack or defense in combat. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon So by definition, they are all weapons. Its up to the officers discretion, and the State to prove if their intention was to carry it as a weapon.

Look guys im not meaning to be argueing the point, at all. Look at TCA 39-17-1302 under prohibited weapons? Its section A, subsection 8 that says "any instrument thats used to inflict serious bodily injury or death that has no common lawful purpose".... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39-17-1302. Prohibited weapons. (a) A person commits an offense who intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells: (7) A switchblade knife or knuckles; or (8) Any other implement for infliction of serious bodily injury or death which has no common lawful purpose. ( It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the person's conduct: (1) Was incident to the performance of official duty and pursuant to military regulations in the army, navy, air force, coast guard or marine service of the United States or the Tennessee national guard, or was incident to the performance of official duty in a governmental law enforcement agency or a penal institution; (2) Was incident to engaging in a lawful commercial or business transaction with an organization identified in subdivision ((1); (4) Was incident to using the weapon in a manner reasonably related to a lawful dramatic performance or scientific research; (5) Was incident to displaying the weapon in a public museum or exhibition; (6) Was licensed by the state of Tennessee as a manufacturer, importer or dealer in weapons; provided, that the manufacture, import, purchase, possession, sale or disposition of weapons is authorized and incident to carrying on the business for which licensed and is for scientific or research purposes or sale or disposition to the organization designated in subdivision ((1); or © It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section which the person must prove by a preponderance of the evidence that: (1) The person's conduct was relative to dealing with the weapon solely as a curio, ornament or keepsake, and if the weapon is a type described in subdivisions (a)(1)-(5), that it was in a nonfunctioning condition and could not readily be made operable; or (2) The possession was brief and occurred as a consequence of having found the weapon or taken it from an aggressor. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have spoken to several officers and two DA's about this particular scenario in question. The fact is like I stated before, they can be a weapon. So can an ice pick, ink pen, or a pair of scissors. Therefor you can be charged with it as a weapon if the officer feels he wants to push it to that length. The TCA makes certain exclusions in the defense of prosecution for certain things... chemical agents and tasers arent in there. On the deaths.... The Lee case is the one that sticks out in my mind, the officers were cleared and there was drugs involved. So who knows. I do know that a June 28 bulletin of that year, from the device's manufacturer, Taser International, to police departments nationwide warned that improper use of the stun guns could have deadly effects. "Officers should avoid repeatedly using Tasers against people, particularly those exhibiting symptoms of "excited delirium," a drug-induced state of agitation, the company said." Lee case in Nashville: Yes he was one drugs but the casue of death was undetermined. http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/05/nashville-police-cleared-in-taserrelated-death.html Chattanooga: http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_150704.asp Cleveland Tennessee: http://blogs.knoxnews.com/silence/archives/2006/03/tasered_man_in.shtml Heres one from Vegas too: http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1976718&nav=8faOOHOs Texas: This one ruled a homicide by the police. http://leisureguy.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/taser-death-ruled-a-homicide/ Theres more and more and more.... I simply dont have the time to look them up, and honestly dont care. Ask other officers or DA Whitsell, or one of the others in Rutherford County if you want clarification.