TMF

Well, you must consider the mission. There is more to war than just killing. If killing won wars then we'd own Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan. Killing is certainly a strategy to eliminate the enemy's ability to secure an area and make war against you, but the overall strategy isn't dominated by attrition alone; especially when the enemy doesn't need to be as big as an army. They just need to be big enough to get on CNN. The only real victories the enemy has had against us in that war is in the media. When we engage in the type of stuff they do we are no longer the good guys. That doesn't make them the good guys either, as we come to expect that kind of stuff from them. But how do we make ourselves out to be bringers of peace and respect to a foreign culture if we do things disrespectful to that culture? The answer here is not to get involved at all because atrocities will happen in war on both sides no matter what you do to mitigate it. That is a fact. But we did get involved under the pretense of removing an evil dictator and bringing peace and democracy to the people of Iraq, so we need to own it when we do something jacked up. Not that I think these Marines absolutely did anything wrong, just speaking in generalities in regard to your post.

You talking out of the country or just up in the mountains?

Right. Warfare certainly has changed in regard to the rules we place on it. Or maybe it hasn't... maybe we just thought we could change it to make killing each other more civil. I've had thoughts on it before, and I guess my opinions on it are that you can still respect and enemy that you hate so long as that enemy holds the same respect for you. It's difficult to look at a fallen enemy and have empathy and sorrow if that enemy was an evil little bastard. Having fought countless different factions with similar and contrary beliefs and objectives I've come into contact with both honorable and evil enemy. For the evil ones I don't have any moral objection polishing their bones and decorating my humvee with them. My only ethical issue would be what doing such things says about our legitimacy and professionalism in respect to the mission we're claiming we're there for. If we're there to kill everything we see, I guess skulls and femurs wouldn't be inappropriate. However, when we say we're there to provide security so they can achieve self rule and stability, then perhaps hearts and minds aren't just targets. Honestly, I've always had a hard time having hatred for the guys I fought. The only bad guys I had hatred for were specific personalities who engaged in intentional attacks on civilians. Those people I didn't consider to be legitimate combatants and I don't believe they deserved to be respected, dead or alive. Like many others who have fought, I've lost several friends to the enemy. I don't have hate for the enemy for that. When we pick up a rifle and engage in combat we're making a pact with the enemy that we're gonna try and kill each other to the best of our ability in order to stay alive and achieve our goals. Maybe if we were invaded by China I might go all out hatred and wear a skull chain like Predator, but perhaps that's how some of them brown folks look at us when we shock and awe them into democracy.

Generally I agree with that, but I'm not convinced that this was a case of mistreating/disrespecting corpses. I'm inclined to believe the intent here was to eliminate an overpowering smell and improve quality of life for Marines in a blocking position. Just about every maneuver element during that fight took casualties, so I'm sure the frame of mind the guys on the ground were in was one that didnt include strict adherence to policy, especially policies that didnt consider extreme circumstance. I could be wrong though.

Yeah, but the metric system is also world wide, but we don't tolerate that nonsense here. The term "Soldier" is capitalized when referring to a member of the US Army, BTW. Now, if you'll please award me Grammar Ahole of the Thread I'll be on my way.

Yeah, but posing with charred skulls is not standard practice. Not that I care, it just makes for a sensational photo and anti-military porn for hippies. If I was a fresh out of high school Marine that believed the things that young Marines do, I'd have been posing with charred enemy skulls as well. Lucky for me I was a little older when all this was going on, so I never posed with dead bodies or took pictures of any of the sensational things that I've seen. I'm thankful for that. But I've seen Iraqi kids play soccer with the head of suicide bomber. I've seen an Iraqi policeman cave in the skull of a dead bad guy by repeatedly stomping on his head. I've seen Iraqi police tie a dead insurgent to the back of their truck and drag him through the streets. Burning dead, stinking corpses? Yep, don't care.

According to the story it was being investigated because they mishandled Muslim corpses, which was contrary to policy and potentially a violation of the Geneva Conventions. I doubt they burned them alive. We killed thousands of people in only a few days in that city. There were a lot of dead bad guys around. It doesn't take long for bodies to stink in that heat and there aren't enough dogs to eat them all. If you've ever tried to dig a hole there you already know hot impossible that task is; the ground is literally hard as rock. Fire is the easiest and most efficient solution to eliminating stinking bodies in such a situation. Marines are known for their efficiency more than they are known for burning people alive, which is how I arrived at my conclusion.

Went to the Chinese buffet and saw a big bearded biker looking guy OCing his piece. Only a few tables away were 4 Clarksville PD officers having lunch. There was no way the staff and other patrons didnt notice the pistol, as it was not only obvious but he was sitting pistol out. I guarantee that the cops saw it. I never saw the cops approach him nor did I see them watching him as they ate their meal and walked around the buffet. Just thought that, with all the cop vs. permit holder crap we see posted here, I'd post a story where it had all the elements but nothing happened because nobody cared.

Never tried to mail one to myself before, but they are adamant about the FFL information. I suppose it would be at the discretion of UPS since it isn't against the law to mail a firearm to yourself, if it could be explained to management in a way they can understand. I mail long guns through them all the time.

Nobody was burned alive. They just burned the corpses. Of course, we've burned a whole lotta people alive in Afghanistan using WP. On another note, I wonder what the statute of limitations is on this. All they did was mishandle corpses. If all these Marines are civilians now I can't imagine there is much the gov can do about it. Oh, and I've seen much worse treatment of enemy corpses at the hands of other Iraqis. Burning them is pretty tame. Hell, depending in the circumstances it may have been warranted. Bodies smell and at the time this took place there weren't Iraqi government services online in that area to handle dead monkeys by the thousands. If I'm having to occupy a house for several days with a pile of dead aholes in the courtyard I'd probably torch them too.

They do. I'm shipping one today through them. They just won't ship from their little package shops. I have to go to the actual distro center.

Awesome. I wouldn't think that CCP/HCP information would be shared between states. I don't like that. I have to travel through the occupied states this summer (MD, NJ, NY). I hate hate hate going up there.

And there's that. Unless the Dem anti-gunner strategists figure out the possibilities here.

Just watched his lawyer say his client was assaulted by the other man with an "object". The object in question was the bag of popcorn. You've got to be f'ing kidding me. This is the type of guy who the antis prop up as being emboldened by his carry weapon to start something and end it violently.

So that's why he's in jail with a murder charge? And how would the guy texting be the one starting the altercation if it was the other guy who had the problem? Did the texting man just assume the guy had a problem so he tried to fight him? Give me a break. Considering the area there is a good chance this Sheriff knows the shooter personally. Good thing the DA doesn't.

Well, let's start by acknowledging that there will be congresscritters in other parts of the country dictating when, where and how you can carry in your own state. Don't think for a second that just because they would mandate legal carry in every state translates to the ability to actually carry that firearm freely. No, think NFA. Think all the restrictions in there. Think how long it would take to get your permit. Think about the requirements they'll make to get one. Think limits on round capacity. Think about places they'll make off limits... pretty much anywhere there are kids, large crowds, spotted owls or red cockaded woodpeckers. The people who would be constructing this and bartering its passing would be fighting tooth and nail to neuter it and the guys on the Rep side of the aisle would accept that for the sake of getting it passed. It would be messy. Plus, they'll be able to tack on more restrictions as they go, which means the next time an Adam Lanza goes postal with a democrat POTUS and Congress, they'll be able to do REAL damage. The end result of them passing it would be all of us carrying 7 round capacity pistols to and from the range because that would be the only legal place you could take them.

Ha, well that is common with PSA. I usually buy a couple lowers when they're running their $60 blem lower deals. They're sold out very shortly after placing my order.

For crying out loud are you capable of critical thinking? The victim fell on the guy he was sitting next to. Read the whole story. The witness was sitting next to this guy. I can tell you that if I'm cornered by a man of any age who is acting in a threatening manner I won't hesitate to get physical if there is an obvious imminence of hostility. If you can't read the witness statement here and get a general idea of what happened then I can't help you. It's all there. This old guy instigated an altercation while carrying a gun and shot an unarmed man. You don't get into fights knowing that you're gonna end it with your firearm. I don't care what your age is.

And the obsession with school girls and used women's panties they could probably keep. And anime. No society is perfect I guess.

Here a witness who was so close to the victim that the victim fell on him. If the man is still at his seat how can he be thought to be the one that escalated anything? If someone approaches to where I'm sitting an argues with me then he is escalating the situation. In fact, it sounds to me like the victim may have been justified in using physical force as he was likely trapped by the aggressor here and threatened. And no, a punch doesn't automatically count as "deadly force" simply because someone died from a punch before. That does not give any person the justifiable right to shoot someone.

I'm basing my opinion on the witness account. They said that the dude came back in and stated in on the guy again. Sounds to me like this dude was itching for a reason to pull his gun. I don't really care what the victim did here unless he was armed with a deadly weapon and threatened the shooter. Doesn't seem to be any witness statement saying that happened. Even if the victim threw a punch that doesn't rise to deadly force level, especially in a fight the shooter instigated. If it was legal then folks could just go around instigating fights and then shooting a person when they swing first. That's murder.

Yep, give it a few weeks. I've exchanged emails with their customer service before when shipping lowers. They've always been very responsive, usually getting back with me within an hour on business days. I remember them getting a lot of flak during the panic this time last year regarding customer service, but I think folks couldn't grasp how hard they were being hit with orders and inquiries at the time. If you feel you need to contact them just send an email and include your order number in the subject line. I bet you hear back within a day.

The federal govt getting control of who can and can't carry and where they can carry it is a scary thought and it would end badly. We whine about gunbuster signs and having to pay for a permit. If the Feds got control of this we'd be in a lot worse shape. One can not even fathom how bad it would be for us.

Ha, probably. I was just there a few weeks ago. Took the kids over to Clearwater beach and drove up hwy 19 to Pasco. Just nasty in that area.

Work ethic, hygiene, diet, fitness, self respect....