TMF

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  I don't have an "argument" other than the silliness wrapped around how "ineffective" a particular round is.  It doesn't matter how big a bore you have, shot placement matters.  I understand all the physics behind it... a combination of mass and speed translating into more damage or the target.  It's a pretty simple concept.  I do think it is disingenous to compare 9mm to a pointy stick or a .22 LR to nullify my point of shot placement being a big part of it.  Obviously there is a line you draw where at some point you have taken something too far.... you can go too small or you can go too big.  If "stopping power" were the most important thing than all cops would carry a .500 magnum, right?  That argument is just as rediculous and disingenous as suggesting the use of .22 in regard to shot placement.  Clearly there is a tradeoff, and rather than simply dismissing a round because of anecdotal evidence, such as the story you linked, one could consider that the choice of round is based on a series of factors in order to find balance.   I guess what I'm getting at with my examples was that anectodal evidence can be dismissed with anectodal evidence.  You link a story where a guy got shot 5 times with 9mm and lived.  Well Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9mm and dropped dead in seconds.  Arguments should be made in fact, and any argument made in anectodal stories should be immediately dismissed by reasonable folks.     Is a .40 superior in inertia to a 9mm?  Sure.  Does that mean a 9mm isn't effective.  No.  I don't really care either way, I just find these threads rediculous when we start the "well I heard that 9mm never ever killed any one ever and one time at band camp..."  It is the kinda nonsense that perpetuates dumbass coworkers to talk about how .40 can shoot through car engines and makes people like me shake my head.  I have pistols in .32, .380, 9mm, .40 and .45.  I normally carry the .380, 9mm and .45 dependent upon where I'm going or how I'm dressed.  Of course, I carry my .45 with the knowledge that I'll never have to shoot anyone with it, because when I pull it out the bad guy will immediately evacuate his bowels and surrender.

  And I saw an 8 year old kid who took an 7.62 x 39 right through the chest and he was able to get up and run to cover and ended up surviving.   I also know of a dude down in Florida who fired a single shot into an assailant with his 9mm Keltec which resulted in the near-immediate death of the person shot.  There were a couple of threads here about it.   I'll agree that bigger diameters normally mean bigger holes, which would translate to more chance to hit vital areas to incapacitate, but shot placement is still key.  I don't care what caliber you get shot with, if it isn't in a vital area it won't matter.  It has nothing to do with the round.  9mm has killed a lot of folks.  There is more to stopping/killing a threat than the diameter of the bullet used.

  You should have explained to him that you carry those sooper dooper armor piercing 9mm rounds from Lethal Weapon 3.  Then go on to tell him that your buddy's cousin's uncle read a story once about how a guy was hit in the shoulder once with one of those bullets and it tore is whole arm off and that they're banned by the Geneva Conventions.   But seriously, I'm assuming that a basic understanding of physics wasn't a prerequisite for your coworker's position?

  I watched "tingle up my leg" on MSNBC yesterday, and his whole show was centered around attacking anyone who has criticized Obama over his handling of the situation, and justifying/minimizing Putin's actions.  If I didn't know any better I'd think that he gets paid in rubles.

Academy is a private business, and if this is how they choose to dole out their .22 supply that is up to them.  Of course, I would be checking with the corporate office of Academy to ensure that this is their policy.  I'm betting that it isn't. 

Yep, and this is just gearing us up for a new generation of Joes flipping off Ivans from one side of the border to the other. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

One of my presents I had mailed to my parents via USPS (using Amazon) this past Christmas got FUBAR'd by the worthless mouthbreathers at USPS.  My parents live in a rural area where this postal delivery stooge rarely goes to because my parents have most everything shipped to a separate PO Box in town, so with the exception of deliveries they don't get mail at their physical address.   Well this idiot claims that he left a notice of attempted delivery at my parents' place (which he didn't, but it wouldn't matter because when that happens they at least hold it at the post office for pick up) but the same day he turned around and marked it as "undeliverable as addressed" and the gift I bought for my parents was returned to Amazon.  So after calling that post office and learning what lazy, sorry excuses for tit-sucking worthless Americans that postal employees were, I contacted Amazon.  Not only did they get another package out (before the previous package was returned to them) but they put a 1-day shipping on it (for free) so that it would get there before Christmas.  Amazon is an awesome company to deal with.  The USPS is worthless as tits on a bull because they are plagued with apathetic, lazy drones who don't have concern for being fired.   Oh, and I had another package sent to them FedEx and somehow that made it great.  Goes to show how a private company operates better than government any day of the week.   Sorry if I offended any postal workers with this one, but the only other place I've seen so many people take so little pride in what they do and care even less about the inconvenience of others is at the DMV.

  I think you're right in regard to Obama's history as a weakling when it comes to foreign policy has created the stage for this, but at this point I don't see anything that he could do that anyone would interpret as right.  It looks like there is an inevitable cold war coming.

In a perfect world any business could turn you away for any reason and no one would care. In our world it is a badge of courage now to be a victim. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Not that I mind an opportunity to bash Obama, but what is he supposed to do in this situation? If he talks too tough we have to worry about getting involved in a conflict we have no business in, if he sits back and shakes his finger we appear too weak and embolden the Russians. What does right look like here?

Sure, let the UN do what they do. Why can't we stay out if it? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Excerpt from actual conversation between Iraqi soldier and US advisor: Iraqi soldier: "See that one there? He is a gay." US Advisor: "How do you know?" Iraqi soldier: "Because we all f***** him last night!" True story. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjrZj3GXjoA

  Perhaps I worded that wrong as to put it on the same level as sexual abuse of a human being who is either not willing, or not at an age or mental capacity to give legal consent.  More I guess I was commenting on why it would be a crime, such as animal abuse, as well as why it wouldn't fall under the same category as gay marriage/plural marraige/polyamorous marriage since in all those instances we're dealing with legal, consenting parties.  Not to steer this off topic or herd others away from the issue.

I think the difference here is that the cow can't give legal consent to sex, which is what makes this a crime and in a different category than non-traditional marriage. I assume that was what your beef was with. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Please, I am all ears. What specifically did you see, that in your vast experience with mass school shootings in a rural community of 40k people, was inconsistent or unexplainable with simple logic that the most reasonable conclusion is massive government conspiracy involving thousands of people? I watched the news that day off and on. I tried not to watch much; it was sickening. I recall seeing the parking lot from the air where they had set up a triage, with police cars and ambulances staged. Obviously, since there were no survivors that are remained empty of wounded. Please point out what is so suspect about the way they set up that one must immediately assume conspiracy as opposed to an unprepared response to one of the largest and most devastating attack on civilians in our country's history. Please tell us. For those of us who have seen how evil people can be it isn't far fetched to believe there are very bad people who do crazy things. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That is also possible. I certainly don't underestimate the stupidity and ignorance of people. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Out of respect for these parents, if you're gonna call their kids' death a massive hoax that either didnt happen or was a giant conspiracy to which thousands of people were involved, you'd better come with some evidence. This piece of excrement that this human piece of garbage wrote had a bunch of assumptions, made up "facts" and straight up lies. He is the worst form of human being there is. Worse than the liberals standing on the graves of these children to further their agenda are these conspiracy theory NUTBAGS that are simply looking for more clicks and attention, and are willing to trivialize the death of children to do so. I hope the absolute worst on the author and all of his kind. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Most people who have been on a flat range have either experienced or witnessed the guy that goes to slap a mag in his M4 and a couple rounds pop out of the mag and are loose in the upper receiver, causing a double feed or the operator needing to turn his rifle to dump out the loose rounds. A round sitting forward which gets caught on the magwell may pop out and strip out the round behind it, because often in a mag change (not an admin loading) it is done quick and with knuckle dragger force. Tapping the back of the mag will prevent this. I don't do it on my helmet because I never got into the muscle memory of it. I've also never been in a gun fight that lasted more than half a mag. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You have a valid point, but I think it is very reasonable assumption that most folks would not approach a pissed off, 500 lb animal if they didnt have a means to stop it. That is why I'm more inclined to believe that this idiot made the choices he made because he knew he could shoot his way out in a pinch. I'm not saying that there aren't stupid people who approach dangerous situations completely unarmed, but when they are they need to understand that if they decide to shoot their way out they are responsible for the results because they initiated knowing they would default to deadly force. In other words, someone who provokes a situation with the intention of shooting their way out if it goes sideways is a trigger happy POS. I think this guy fits the mold. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It was no different when I was 12. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, my bad. Then simply said, if he had spoke his opinion rather than the departments he would have been promptly fired and would have to find a different career. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Well I suppose if you fly that flag I can respect you actually believe in what you believe. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

And how many Sheriff's have been arrested for speaking out against perceivably unjust laws versus how many cops have been fired for making public statements while in uniform? The only thing that would have happened by this officer speaking his mind would have been his immediate termination and replacement by someone who may think the same, but have mortgages and stuff so they keep their mouth shut. Really, unless you believe that every cop in America should be jailed for violating the constitution and their oath then you are consistent in your convictions, you're just jumping on board to bash this cop. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk