TMF

I should be good then. I was careful to get my clearance renewed on time after I saw a guy let it lapse on deployment. Not too long ago I was working with a buddy from back in the day who was a recovering Irish; since 2002 he'd been arrested multiple times for bar fights/disorderly type offenses that all ended up getting dropped. The sponsor required TS/SCI and a CI PG so this guy is sweating bullets. Even with all that in his background he had no issues.

Completely innocuous. I believe my assumptions were wrong based on your statement regarding your attempt to conceal your interim carry holster. My reaction or overreaction was based on historical data I've seen posted by others on this site that seek confrontation with simple minded folk that are easily spooked by an armed citizenry. I am rolling up my "jump to conclusions" mat as we speak and putting it in the tough box for a day that it can be more appropriately used.

They check your clearance? I didn't know that was a part of the investigation. Mine is still active so do you think that will speed things up or having a clearance at all will slow things down? I guess my curiousity is peaked now in regards to what they look into. I thought it was just criminal record or FBI watch list stuff.... God help me if we have to start sifting through the DD 214.... that'll be a long day and a lot of questions from an untrained observer.

Sounds like it might have been just an isolated incident; maybe a misunderstanding. I visited Guns and Leather in Greenbrier a few months back for a transfer and have nothing but good things to say. They were very well staffed and patient since the sender didn't include a copy of his DL in the package. They allowed me to use their computer to get a scanned copy of the individual's DL in an email all the while entertaining my 2 year old son and helping customers. G & L Greenbrier is a good 45 minute drive from my house and I would gladly make the drive again if I was in the market for another rifle. In fact, I tried to buy a AR lower on the way out to reward them for their good service but they only had a .308 in stock so I ended up buying it at Tennessee Gun Country a few weeks later.

I mailed out my packet today from Montgomery County. I will keep the thread posted on the progress although it seems it is a crapshoot from one to the other. BTW, big +1 for Montgomery County Sheriff's Office. So incredibly easy to deal with and the turn around is only 1 day to get the Sheriff to sign. Also, the secretary and SO retiree on the 5th floor were beyond helpful and were well versed on the subject. If anyone is getting their paperwork ready in Montgomery County, don't let the prospect of having a hard time there hold you up; they are just awesome.

Yep, no argument here. Good, bad or indifferent, I don't like it for the precedent it sets or the door it opens up.

Not trying to insult you at all. Regarding knowledge of operational environment and use of common sense is perhaps a generalization of all individuals here that have had run-ins whilst carrying in places that are inherently on edge due to increased threat level from armed robbers (banks/liquor stores/convenient stores/pawn shops). From your description above you state that a shirt and coat was over the weapon and I take that statement at face value. During the winter months I also switch to an OWB holster since I usually have a coat on when I enter a business. It allows me to conceal the weapon and have better access to it as opposed to staying with an IWB that is covered by multiple layers. Perhaps I had my "jump to conclusions" mat out and made assumptions based on the information I know: You've had your HCP for a very short period of time (about a week) and have already had a run in with someone who wasn't comfortable with you carrying in their establishment. I've had my HCP for a relatively long time compared to you and have never, ever had someone notice my weapon (to my knowledge) or approach me regarding it. If you are indeed carrying as discreetly as I, by law of averages I should have had several run-ins by now, but have had none. It was only natural for me to assume that you didn't tailor your carry practices to your operational environment which resulted in the incident above. But hey, I also had a holster for both my carry weapons when my HCP arrived so I never had to resort to an awkward or bulky holster that is difficult to conceal. I guess I've just seen or heard of incidents like this enough times and have always thought that there were obvious ways to avoid confrontation which ultimately leads to more postings and less places I'm willing to go.

I'm putting on my tinfoil hat today. I think this is a case of good initiative, bad judgement. I don't like any federal law that forces states to do something they don't want to, even if it happens to be something I may agree with. I'd love to carry in NJ, but if NJ citizens support legislation to not allow me to carry there then that is their right. I'll do my best to avoid NJ and their stupid jughandles. Besides, it looks to me that the second and third order effects from this bill would ultimately be bad for us current HCP holders.... it just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

You should expect that liquor store to have a legal post sometime in the near future. Regardless of what I/you/anyone here thinks, average people are made uneasy by others carrying weapons. This is the reality we live in; don't expect it to change. Furthermore, someone who works in a liquor store is going to be even more uneasy since liquor stores tend to be a common target of armed robbers. There is a very nice liquor store in Clarksville that I've been patronizing for the past 8 years or so. I carry in there everytime I go. No one knows. If one day I decided to OC I would expect that the issue would be addressed simply because the nature of the business. Kinda like a bank teller seeing a weapon on your hip, it's going to scare them even though there is no reason to be scared. This is the reality. I would then have to explain to them that I'm not breaking the law which would take valuable minutes from my day and draw attention to me that I just don't desire. After that conversation I would expect that the employee would bring it up to the management or owner and more thorough research would be conducted to determine how to keep armed people from entering the store (as uneducated as that initiative would be, we have to accept reality; not everyone thinks the way we do). Why not just put a shirt over it when going into places like that? It's not that hard to avoid confrontation. It's not that hard to avoid having another business decide to research the law and put up a posting. I'm not trying to get into the CC vs OC argument. I don't care one way or the other. Just please, know your operational environment and use common sense. Please don't go into my liquor store and make them post. I like going there; it's close to my house and it's the only one in Clarksville that keeps the Sam Adam's Imperial series constantly cold so it doesn't get skunky. Now, OCers, please inundate me with comments on why I shouldn't patronize that business because they are anti-HCP and therefore don't deserve my money... it's been a couple of weeks since I've had that.

I don't see how an officer asking to search and a citizen consenting to search is "trampling" all over the 4th Amendment. The officer is ASKING. If the citizen interprets that as a demand then it's their fault for not knowing their rights. I have no problem with consenting to search other than the inconvenience. The 4th Amendment isn't there as a guideline for citizens, it's there as a guideline for the Government. So, it is my right to allow a search just as much as it is my right to say "no". The only time the 4th Amendment is "trampled" on is if an officer searches without consent. To say that a consent to search is someone giving up their 4th Amendment rights is to say that someone who doesn't own a firearm is giving up their 2nd Amendment rights.

I consented to search when I was younger (19) after being pulled over in Camden County, Georgia. I was held on the side of the road for around 30 minutes while one officer searched and the other pulling security on me as if I was a threat. I don't think either one was unprofessional, it just seemed like a huge inconvenience when I hadn't done anything wrong other than look young and drive fast. It turned out that they didn't give me a ticket (although I was going 12 over) and were very respectful in sending me on my way. Now that I'm older, have a wife and kids, I don't think I would consent to search again. Not to be difficult, but I'm not going through that buttpain with the whole family. It's hard enough getting the family in and out of the vehicle when we're just going to Kroger.

I'll try to be as cordial and "reasonable" as possible with my response. Yes, I am a passionate person. However, I don't think that disqualifies me from carrying a weapon which is what you're suggesting with your comment. In my years of service to this country I've carried many different weapon systems on different continents in austere environments. The level of stress endured in such environments is beyond what you would be able to fit into your head, but if you'd like a snapshot please PM me and I will be more than happy to inform you. To the subject of "if we were sitting at the table discussing this like rational people": How can you say that after reading your own email? Would you have said that smart a$$ comment to the face of the OP? I'm not an overly intimidating man, but if you responded to me in the way that you responded to the OP in person I would punch you in the face. I'm not being dramatic or passionate. This is what happens when a grown man insults me to my face. I know because I've seen myself do it. Lastly, you're an a$$hole. When I first read the OP's email I thought that there must be more to this story. I didn't want to believe that there could be a business run this poorly in terms of customer service in this struggling economy. Thank you for coming to this website and giving us the full scope of the story. I wouldn't have fully believed this possible without your input. The picture you painted of yourself and your business is far worse than anything any detractor could possibly say. Good luck with your business. I'll be emailing the contents to this thread to every gun owner I know. Hopefully word about you will spread.

Door gunner on the Space Shuttle. Times is hard now that they shut us down.

They could have just said "no" in a cordial way. F*** these clowns. This should be a thread with the title of the store filed under "Don't do business with these a**clowns".

I'm sure if an intruder was to be engaged with 00 Buck vs a slug his response would most likely not be "F*** you! Is that all you got?" He would most likely bleed and die. The advantage of buck over slug is that there is less of a requirement on accuracy with the spread pattern, which is good in a situation where you have to engage someone. To put it in perspective, if you have to shoot someone it's going to be for a very good reason, such as that person is presenting themselves as a threat and must be immediately neutralized. Not everyone is going to have the presence of mind to properly aim before squeezing the trigger. They are most likely going to try to get rounds out in the general direction of the threat as quickly as possible to make that threat go away.

More like herpes.

It was an email from the French SF guy to the SEAL. More likely for Frenchie to speak English than the SEAL to speak French.

Already there. I wish this movement would take hold.

Rebels become terrorists when they use such tactics as strapping claymore vests to two mentally challenged people, then make them walk into a busy market and detonate said vests killing scores of innocent men, women and children. This happened. It is not an exaggeration; it happened, and it is merely a glimpse of what I've seen. Once you see enough of it you can no longer ignore what is self evident. Do you think the group that did that should be classified as freedom fighters?

Well I would say that's what is debatable. The part that bothers me is that the CCW classes that are accredited by the state as a gate to being issued a CCW it puts an individual in a situation to where he/she may not be able to procure the necessary training due to discrimination. It would be as if someone can't get issued a CCW by the state simply because of their race/religion. I know that it's somewhat abstract, but it's only because the state isn't going to invest the money to have state employed handgun trainers/testers for CCW like at the DMV for a driver's license. They allow for private businesses to conduct the training under criteria set by the state. For one of those private businesses to deny that ability to acquire a CCW for discriminatory reasons should earn them a loss of the state's approval to teach CCW courses for the purposes of obtaining a CCW.

Yeah, I don't care if there is ZERO chance of survival, I still should have the right to go down fighting. If a guy twice my size decides he's gonna beat me stupid I'm still going to do my best to get my licks in.

It's certainly something I would require if I was giving someone weapons training.

Well I know people don't agree, but if a middle-eastern man who is not an American citizen came in for weapons training I'd be reporting it to the FBI. I don't think that's unreasonable at all. If he was an American I'd give him the benefit of the doubt unless he exibited behavior that was suspicious.

Man I'd love to see that, but I think the unfortunate consequence would be a multi-million dollar lawsuit in his favor. He needs bone cancer.

Yeah, I don't think it's even the same ballpark to compare modern day Islamo-facism to the occassional tinfoil hat that goes over the deep end. This is a problem that has infected Islam and spread wildly over the past 30-40 years and has revolutionized in the past 15 years through franchise terror groups. It's a lot different than a couple of guys getting together to overthrow the government. This is an international movement which is rooted in the religion, funded by governments and has an endless supply of unemployed, pissed off fighting-aged males to carry out attacks. In regards to this instructor, I don't agree with him. An American is an American regardless of their religion. I don't think his stance against training Muslims has anything to do with the notion of preventing a terrorist attack. He just doesn't like Muslims as a whole and is discriminating against them. I think it is his right to do so as a private instructor, but if he is conducting courses on behalf of the government then this is beyond wrong.