TMF

Ewwww.... that had to have sparked some choice explatives on the range.

That was my belief all along. The argument regarding HCP code is thrown out because the individual isn't being "disarmed", the weapon is being taken as evidence. In regards to the 4th Amendment, a dead body full of holes suggest that the person didn't die by natural causes. I know that some are playing the devil's advocate here and would fully cooperate with LE in this scenario, but let's be reasonable in regards to our rights: 1. You have freedom of speech but you can't go into a crowded movie theater and yell "BOMB", right? 2. The government can't seize personal property illegally or unreasonably, right? How do we define "legally" or "reasonable" here? I'm just not seeing the argument that a dead body full of bullet holes isn't enough to take evidence in a homicide investigation. And just to be clear, when there is a dead body a homicide has been committed whether it was justified or not. It is the responsibility of LE to investigate whether a crime has or hasn't been committed.

BTW, I was going to go out to Dickson for the 3 Gun Match in October but it was too close to my wife's due date. I haven't shot MCTS yet but I most certainly will in the spring. I'll be the one with the least tricked out M4, G19 and, of course, my stock Mossy 500 w/ bead sight!

The comments were almost entirely close-minded and inflammatory (coming from both sides of the issue). The intolerance of people is made so transparent in discussions like that, especially in a anonymous environment with no sense of decorum. It shows the true nature of people. That's why I wanted to see it play out here where we share common interests but have very different opinions. I think it's a great idea to expose your children to all aspects of religion; the good and the bad. Putting information into context and allowing kids to make choices of their own set the tone for raising a child to be an open minded adult. I think when we attempt to indoctrinate kids into a certain belief system it can go one of two ways: either close mindedness of other beliefs or complete rejection of their religious foundation. I used to work with a former Mormon who now hates Mormanism. Hate is a strong word, but it isn't strong enough to describe his opinions on it. He grew up in an environment completely shut off from the world, and then was thrust into that world and abandoned before he was 18. I think without experiencing his new surroundings in context he was unable to accept his new reality without rejecting the old one. The fact that he was never given the option is what I think caused him to have such strong feelings of resentment toward his former religion.

Atheists Who Go to Church: Doing It for the Children - Yahoo! News This story caught my eye on Yahoo. What was more interesting than the story were the extreme views from both sides in the comments section. I was curious to see how this would play out with a more rational crowd of differing opinions. What are your thoughts? Please no bashing in either direction.

After not eating for a few days most people here would eat dog. When you don't know where you're next meal is coming from your outlook on everything changes. I'm not talking about having to scrounge around the apartment and eat mustard sandwiches like some of us did in college, I'm talking about survival mode and no food available except for what you can find. It's hard to be a vegetarian in the winter. You don't have the luxury to pass up meals at that point, especially after a few days. I'm a dog lover too, but faced with that situation I ate dog parts. I'm not proud but I'm not ashamed either.

The facts are what they are. What I'm saying is that 39-17-1351t has nothing to do with a homicide investigation or how it's handled. If it was then there would be two sets of rules for a SD shoot: One for HCP holders and one for everyone else. This is not the case at all. I'm not a lawyer or LE, but I do know that when there is a crime scene police officers don't have to wait on a DA or warrant to rope it off, secure evidence and begin an investigation. If the weapon happens to be at the scene it will be taken as evidence along with everything else. The argument you're posing should revolve around whether or not police do or should have the ability to secure evidence at a crime scene without a warrant. I think this is where probable cause comes into play, and the best indicator of a homicide is a dead body in your living room with a bunch of holes in it. I guess what I'm saying is that the folks here that seem to think that 39-17-1351t is going to keep police from taking your weapon if you shoot someone need to understand that 39-17-1351t has nothing to do with how an investigation would be handled. One has nothing to do with the other.

Still, this would have nothing to do with codes regarding HCP holders. The officer wouldn't be DISARMING anyone, he would be taking the weapon as evidence. We're talking about two totally different things that have nothing to do with each other. Whether or not the individual has a HCP has nothing to do with a police investigation into a homicide.

I saw this thread and had to contribute. I ate some dog parts 10 years ago. It was day or two roadkill but it was cold enough that it wasn't too bad yet. Goat is far worse. I hate goat. As I type this I can almost taste goat flavor as I disgust over it. I can honestly say that I've eaten damn near every part of a goat and none of it is good. If goat was the last animal on earth I'd become a vegetarian.

A couple of months back I started going to 3-gun matches and had a good time. I've been shooting tactically for a long time but never for sport. I had my reservations because I've been on the range so often with guys that participate in competitions in their offtime that I got a generally bad vibe from it. A lot of tough guy talk and wearing of patches with skulls on them is a big annoyance of mine, so I didn't want to be on a range full of cats like that. A buddy of mine talked me into doing a 3 gun match in September and I did see a lot of that stuff (tough guy talk; $8,000 rifles when a $1,000 rifle would do; shooting jerseys full of sponsors; generally douchey behavior), but there were a lot of normal people there too. I understand that it's intimidating to show up for something to have fun and be around a bunch of people that take it way too serious, but there were enough grounded people around to make the experience one that I intend on doing more. Besides, whooping some jerkoff in a shotgun iteration with my $200 Mossberg 500 while he's shooting a tricked out $1200 autoloading shotgun after listening to an hour of him talk about how awesome he is at shooting paper was worth the trip. Bottom line, have fun with it, be safe and ignore the guys that take it serious. Seek advice from the wise and ignore the condescending advice from the d-bags.

Clearly. This is meant to prevent an officer from confiscating a your weapon if you have a valid HCP. Since carrying is illegal in TN, LE needs that guideline in order to make it clear that confiscating a weapon from someone who is legally authorized to carry it is not okay unless the officer has a reasonable fear for his safety. Because that protection is referring to what the officer can or can't do in regards to DISARMING a HCP holder during the normal course of carrying a weapon. It mentions "arrest" in there so the officers know that they cannot keep the weapon unless they haul that person to jail. A SD shooting and subsequent investigation have nothing to do with this since the officer isn't DISARMING the person but instead they are taking the weapon as evidence. It's not about AG opinion or anything of the like. The reason there is no precedented case is most likely because an SD shoot that involved a HCP holder resulted in the officers allowing the shooter to keep their weapon or they took it as evidence without issue because using the argument of "I have a HCP and therefore have different rights" is so incredibly ludicrous that it is likely never to have come up. What you're suggesting here is that a HCP holder has more rights than the average citizen that uses a weapon to defend themselves. Your HCP doesn't give you any permissions or put you in any special category in a police investigation. It just doesn't. It is a card issued by the DOS that keeps you from getting arrested for carrying a weapon in public. If you then use said weapon against someone the only thing that HCP does is prevent weapons charges from being filed. It doesn't keep the police from confiscating personal property (the weapon) for a homicide investigation. By that rationale you believe that if your neighbor, who doesn't have a HCP, is somehow given less protections under the law for using their firearm in self defense. Not only is this not true, but this will never happen ever, ever.

I have an Olympic Arms lower that is coated. It is the bastard stepkid of my collection, but I bought it a very long time ago and it was my first AR. I traded off the upper years ago and was going to get rid of the lower when I came by some parts and made it into a retro build. This lower gets the coating chipped just by looking at it. I don't know if Oly Arms does this still or if this particular model was produced that way, but I don't like it. I've been thinking, after reading this and other threads, of getting a stripped PSA lower and trading off the the Oly Arms for lickies and chewies, or maybe some wheat snack bread.

I guess I didn't think about that either. I've stuck with a regular front sight gas block for mine, and I'm so set in my builds that I never will alter my uppers. I just keep building more uppers and somehow a lower gets attached to it at some point. It seems like they're building themselves lately. I agree, if you're planning on altering it later then you have to keep your options open.

Ask for the serial number prior to meet up for purchase. If it's hot that should end the transaction from his end right there.

Man, I thought all this HCP badge stuff was just a joke. I mean, really, that's what I thought. This guy is going to end up putting a round in himself having a ND. Hopefully that gets captured on YouTube as well.

Usually when there is a dead body with bullet holes in it police are expected to do more than just take the shooter's word for it. I'm not going to pretend to be a law enforcement expert here, but I'd like to think that the most obvious and logical course of action would be to secure critical evidence to prevent crime scene contamination so I can do my utmost to conduct an investigation to clear a justified shoot or prosecute a murder case... unless, of course, the shooter had a HCP. Then I would have to abide by a totally different set of rules to accommodate an individual deemed by DOS as fit to carry a weapon in public.... well, unless I'm Martin Riggs, then I can shoot him on sight or challenge him to a round of hand-to-hand in the front yard. Martin Riggs' badge, as you know, trumps all HCP badges, sashes, rock, paper AND scissors.

Please tell me the man in this picture is serious. This is awesome.

I thought a dead body would be plenty of probable cause too, but I guess if you have your HCP badge it's a different story. I'm glad I paid $100 bucks and waited a couple of weeks for it; now if I shoot somebody I can tell the police officer to get a warrant if he wants my weapon.... I just have to show him my badge. Too bad for all those gun owners without one, huh?

A new guy put a FMJ .45 right through his thigh back in 2009 when reholstering. It went right through and did very little tissue damage, and luckily didn't hit bone or an artery. He walked with a limp for a week or so and was made fun of a lot. I suspect a HP would have created a much more significant wound, caused permanent damage and wouldn't of been as funny. Isn't there a thread regarding all this at the top of this category? http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/handguns/51380-read-before-posting-nonsense-about-efficiency-handgun-calibers.html See the cavitation of a .45 JHP? That is not the cavitation that occurred from a .45 FMJ at 3 inches. He wouldn't have been doing much walking after that.

See this isn't about "disarming" anyone. This is about taking something as evidence. The fact that it's a pistol and you have a HCP is inconsequential here. Besides, I don't need a HCP to carry on my own property anyway. Disarming suggests taking the weapon for the safety of the officer or other citizens. Taking a weapon as evidence in a homicide is not for the intent of "disarming". This is about evidence, not about what rights or privilages you have as a HCP holder. The weapon used in the killing would be no different than a claw hammer, bat, knife, broadsword or anything else used to kill someone. And no, you don't have to be arrested in order for an officer to take something as evidence. If you tell the officer that you used (insert weapon here) to kill someone then that is evidence in a homicide investigation. If you accidentally kill someone with your car do you think the officer is just going to let you drive away in that car simply because there isn't sufficient evidence at the time to arrest you? Your HCP has ZERO to do with how the law is going to treat the situation if you shoot and intruder. Zero. You are in the same category as everyone else who may legally possess a firearm in their home.

Okay, show me the law that states the investigating officer cannot take a claw hammer as evidence without an arrest of the owner. The code you're referring to is specifically addressing HCP holders. So you are suggesting that if you shoot someone in your home you are somehow in a different category than someone who does not have a HCP? I'm no lawyer, but I do know that a police officer doesn't have to have a warrant to render personal property as evidence. If you shoot and kill someone in your home does your home not become a crime scene? Can you tell the police to come back with a warrant before they enter your home to conduct the investigation? Do you get to keep the slugs that entered the intruder and killed him? Technically those slugs are yours, right? How 'bout the shell casing and the placement of them on the floor? Yours too, right? That code is there to provide a defense to carrying a weapon; it's not there to dictate what law enforcement can or can't do during the conduct of a homicide investigation. If you believe different then you're in for a big shocker in the event you shoot someone in self defense in Tennessee.

The "People" have XBOX 360 and iPhones. Until those comforts are in jeopardy the "People" won't care enough to be so outraged. On another note, why does it matter who Herman Cain decides to penetrate? I don't understand why we have to get so wrapped up in the personal lives of our politicians to the point that it distracts from the real issues. Can you imagine if Ben Franklin was alive today? He was a great American, but he liked the ladies. If such an environment existed back then to the extent it does now, America would have lost out on such an influential founding father. Uggghhh. I'm no longer excited to vote. I'm only voting to get Obama out.

I have two rifles w/ pinned flash suppressors. I built one for myself years ago and had a YHM Phantom pinned onto a 14.5 M4 profile barrel and really like the looks. I was making a replica of my original work gun at the time and couldn't settle for a 16 in. I'm also committed to it and have never had a desire to change out the muzzle device with a different one. I liked the look so much (and having it just a little shorter) that I built a rifle for my dad in the same manner. I wouldn't recommend it for someone that intends on significantly modifying their weapon later, but if you can commit to one muzzle device for that rifle it looks fine. Besides, if money isn't an problem you can always just change out the barrel later if you want. + 1 on the MOE handguards. They don't cost much and are worth the money. They also look nice for being so inexpensive. Of course, hose clamps and a maglite is how the old guys use to do it so they tell me. Edited to add: BTW, that is a very good price on that upper. I don't own a PSA rifle but have heard good things. I think this is as economical as you can get without buying used (I'm looking at the 16in 1/7 w/ BCG & CH for 379.99). You should have no issues getting a quality complete lower for around $250. Altogether that's a $650 new AR.

That has nothing, nothing to do with a shooting investigation... nothing.

I would gladly hand over my weapon in the event of a self defense shooting. I don't think this is a 2A issue at all. If an intruder was to break into your house and you killed him (in self-defense) with a claw hammer they would take the claw hammer in as evidence. I'm sure you could get it back once the investigation was completed, but in the meantime this is the process of the law. I also have more weapons so I'm not worried about giving up my Glock; I'll use one of my other pistols. If I didn't have more guns I'm sure there are plenty of people that would lend me one in the interim. With all that said, I would exaust every legal avenue to retrieve what is rightfully mine once all was said and done. What's mine is mine.