TMF

No, I'm very clear what my opinions are and why I have them. What ever biases I have I am aware of and will freely admit to you. One of those biases is against wanna be mall ninjas.

Witch hunt is a little dramatic and unnecessary. He is on the phone with 911 following him then getting out of his vehicle to pursue on foot. That is not the role of neighborhood watch. His duties were to call the police and that's all. Martin hadn't committed any crime. If he was burglarizing one of Zimmerman's neighbors my opinion would be the other way. I welcome anyone here to just go out and start following someone at night who is minding their own business and see where that road leads you.

To be fair the ones I'm thinking of off-hand have been banned. Looking through the self defense threads there is the occasional mall ninja that posts about tacticool fantasies of taking down multiple bad guys and saving the day... it exists whether we want to believe it or not. I've met folks like this in person. One of them I'm thinking of is actually a LEO. I'm not trying to make accusations of the general members here. Just knowledgable that not everyone that has a permit is carrying for the right reasons.

And that's why LEOs are the ones tasked to approach/pursue "suspicious" characters.

Or ©: stay in your truck instead of pursuing someone on foot whilst armed, or at least have your HCP badge visible when you're playing pretend cop.

This is how I've felt from the start. Most folks I know are like me in regards to avoiding confrontation while carrying. However, there is an element of the carry community that feels their permit makes them something more than what they are; I've met a few myself and seen a whole bunch on this board. It still doesn't make it the gun's fault. Stupid people have no bearing on my actions or anyone else's, so rights and privileges shouldn't be in question; although I would bet that there will probably be something called "Treyvon's Law" in the Florida legislature sometime soon and it will not be targeting morons, it'll be targeting gun owners.

I don't think a person's motive should be a crime itself. People commit violent crimes to include murder for drugs/money/power/sex... Hate is somehow in a different category than those? It just doesn't make any sense and it is too subjective; it allows for those with a political agenda to bring their filth into the courtroom. I don't care if Zimmerman had a swastika tattooed on his forehead and a white hoodie on when he did what he did. The only relevance would be to establish a motive.

Which liquor store was this? I've been going to Mulligans for over 8 years now and have never had an issue. Great selection and friendly staff.

I don't get the impression that this guy wants to give up being a Marine. If he's guilty I think discharging him is a little severe, but then again I haven't seen the comments he made and who knows what his disciplinary record looks like.

I would have to see the statement. Article 88 only applies to commissioned officers so I guess they're going to prosecute him under art 134. His comments would have to be pretty severe to warrant this. Simply stating that he would not follow unlawful orders shouldn't be the issue here. Not following unlawful orders is a given. What's going to get him in trouble here is if he's making these statements as a Marine or as Joe Citizen. If his Facebook page has him in uniform or if the page is representative of him making these statements as an NCO in the Corps then he's stepped on his crank. It's the same as if I wanted to go to a political event. I could go as Joe Citizen and say all I want, but if I don a uniform I'm committing a crime. I think that's how they're gonna approach this. If he does get a dishonorable discharge he'll be able to appeal it and have it changed to general or honorable.

If only Lowes had a coffee shop. Seems I've been living there the past two weeks. I'm not accusing you of making anything personal. Plenty of people disagree and I have and I have no problem with that, but when it turns into what it has it drives away folks with differing opinions because they don't like to be harassed by those that can't play well with others.

I don't know what happened, but I know what I think happened. It's not a contradiction. He probably thought he was being followed but a person can easily talk themselves out of believing that something bad is happening. I gave an example above of my own experience. Could I have called the police? Sure, but I wasn't certain what was going on and wouldn't until the guy follows me into my driveway. By then it would be too late and my only choice would be to defend myself.

I'm no longer a FL resident so I'm not worried about sitting on a jury in this case. Regarding the personal attacks, the passive manner in which it is going on is pretty transparent. I'm not trying to debate anything that's come out as "evidence" other than the original transcript of Zimmerman's call. Everything else is suspect. My life experience and sense tell me that he instigated the incident. If I had to bet 100 bucks one way or the other that is what I would bet on. That's all.

He may not have been certain enough that he was being followed. A few years ago I was coming home from work when I got to a 4 way stop about a mile from my house. There was a car to the left of me that was already at his stop sign, but he was yapping away on his cell phone and just looking at me. I came to a stop and he still didn't move so I went ahead and made my right turn. No sooner did I make that turn the guy was on my bumper and I could see him gesturing wildly in my mirror. I continued home with this guy glued to my bumper. I didn't feel the need to call the police I figured he'd get over it and pass me or something. He stayed with me all the way to my street before doing a 180 and driving off. I wouldn't have known for sure he was following me until I got to my house, and by then it would have been too late to call the cops; I would have been forced to deal with the threat upon being confronted, but I'm not going to call the cops every time a whacko starts riding my bumper, ya know? Martin may not have been certain at first that he was being followed, but his hackles were probably up.

If you look at those posts you'll see that I am not a representative of the government nor do people refer to me as "your Honor". I'm entitled to my opinion and I welcome a debate that challenges that opinion, but what I don't welcome are personal attacks on my opinion or someone saying that I shouldn't have an opinion. It's childish.

DID I EVER SAY THAT WE SHOULD CONVICT PEOPLE ON MY OPINIONS???

Me neither. My opinions are independent of what the law does. If, at this point, he doesn't get charged its pretty clear they don't have enough to put in front of a jury. His being charged/convicted is really not much concern other than hoping that law enforcement put this under a microscope rather than just writing it off as a SD shoot and calling it a day. Either way it doesn't change my opinion that his actions led to the shooting. If Florida doesn't think that makes him criminally liable then fine. The part that outrages me about this case is from the permit holder community. We have a responsibility to avoid confrontation when carrying, not seek it out. Pursuing someone while armed is so incredibly stupid and irresponsible; what did he think would happen if he caught up to him? Probably exactly what transpired. Florida (and other states) will likely amend carry laws due to this case. Everyone with a permit should be looking at this case as an example of what not to do.

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Yep, haven't bought in to any of he media hype or lawyer BS, but I still have the opinion that he started something that he finished with his gun. Things will keep coming out on both sides (as we continue to see) but I'm not latching on to it. I'm only trusting what my own two ears heard on that very first call from Zimmerman. Just because I'm not posting in response to every reply doesn't mean I'm somehow eating crow. The media lies... you don't say? Lawyers are blood sucking leeches.... shocker! Al Sharpton is a racist vulture... now I've heard everything! Point is none of these things have an impact on my opinion.

I think he could get some pretty hefty settlements even if he is convicted. He should start with Nancy Grace. I've been taking great offense to her comments which indict the entire state of Florida and all it's occupants.

I would say large clumsy bird or black bear. I've smashed quite a few car windows and the don't make much noise compared to windows on your house. Although, if it was a bear you might want to invest in a new guard dog.... they shoulda smelled that bear a mile away.

You two are gonna make my brain lock before they get a chance to lock this thread... or at least make me feel kinda dumb.

I've been to the one by the airport, I-drive and downtown, but the only racetrack Hooters I've been to is the one in Daytona. It'll be hard to convince the wife to take the family since my 6 month old will certainly be trying to latch on to our waitress and somehow my son already knows the word "boobies".... somehow...

As a matter of fact I will be. Taking the family too. Somehow I believe we'll have an uneventful trip.

I couldn't possibly tell what Zimmerman said under his breath. Sanford PD originally had it in the transcript as "unintelligible", which I think it is. Even with it being super enhanced I don't see it being used by prosecution. As far as 62 degrees being cold, yeah, in Florida it is. I spent the first 20 years of my life in central Florida. 62 degrees is jacket weather. In Tennessee it's shorts weather.