TMF

I wouldn't have an opinion either if it weren't for my own prejudices. The first time I heard about this story my prejudices caused my opinion to be in favor of Zimmerman... this was based on the headline "White man not charged for shooting unarmed black teen". A headline like that makes me believe two things: The media is trolling for readers and there must be more to the story. When I heard the 911 tape I went in the other direction. I think the SA was able to find evidence that points to criminal liability, otherwise we're in for a 10 minute deliberation when the jury goes to decide. I think the jury will have a pretty good idea what led to his incident once everything is laid out for them. I don't think prosecution will attempt to argue that Zimmerman was NOT in fear for his life at the time he shot Martin. If their entire case revolves around whether he used reasonable force at the time he defended himself then Zimmerman will walk. This, I believe, is why the original DA wouldn't press charges. So it is logical for me to assume that the prosecution now has evidence regarding events that led up to the shooting that implicates criminal wrongdoing or intent. Otherwise the prosecution is in for an epic embarrassment. Considering these lawyers understand the law and the goings on of court cases much better than I, it causes me to believe there is a lot more going on here than a guy shooting another guy who launched an unprovoked attack. Or maybe there are groupings of professional lawyers out there that are that stupid, I dunno. It doesn't seem logical though.

PM inbound.

Sure thing tough guy. I'm guilty of hijacking this thread anyway so I'm not gonna continue down that path. Just one more thing, that post I wrote earlier today about being careful about what you say was real genuine advice.

Folks, we have a return of the real life Martin Riggs.

I was pulled over in Georgia when I was young and the deputy asked me if I had any drugs in the vehicle to which i responded "no". After The stop I realized my response should have been "nope, dun smoked 'em all!" Been waiting a long time to use that one!

If you ever end up having to shoot someone in self defense you should probably come here and delete posts like this one. I'm no DA, but that looks more like an attitude to dispense justice, not self defense. At a minimum a lawyer will most likely take everything from you when you are sued by the family.

When I was in my teens I got pulled over a lot (surprise). I always accepted that I was getting a ticket (or as I called it a "speeding tax"). When you accept that you're getting a ticket and that you deserve it then it makes for a better exchange with the officer, which actually may end up getting you a warning instead. I never understood my buddies who'd try to argue with the cop. That's an expensive argument to have. One guy I knew would ask what the "calibration date" was on the officer's radar because he thought that would scare the officer into not writing the ticket. It didn't work.

.

Ha, thanks guys. I get -1 all the time but that one seemed a little odd.... lacking I sense of humor. I feel as if I should earn someone's disapproval, not get it for free! I usually do the same thing (zero it out) on the political thread. Someone goes through there every so often and -1 every post in favor of or against a political point of view. Seems like that is inappropriate in a discussion about differing viewpoints.

There's always tomorrow.

-1, really? I didn't know we were taking this thread so seriously.

And I don't like Skittles. That doesn't mean I can't empathize with someone who is being chased for no apparent reason.

The most efficient thing to do would be to let them take the money. If the business cared that much about preventing robbery they'd hire armed guards. Either way, I ain't getting in a gunfight over someone else's money.

Voting is like picking your preference on how you want to be executed. One choice may be more painful than the other, but ultimately have the same result. The only way to tame the two party beast is for Americans to reject the limited choices they have and reelect NO ONE until such time that our elected officials start serving the people and not their own interest. This will never happen because our ruling class knows that Americans are fickle and easily divided over silly issues and can be polarized by them by a few well placed stories in the media. We have ourselves to blame for the sh*t sandwich we're chowing down on right now because we have the power to overthrow our current government every time we vote. If Romney wins in November we'd better be prepared to fire him for a democrat in four years.

Walter Sobchek. Perhaps one of the best movie characters ever.

Ha, yeah I remember. I was actually quoting the judge from the movie.

I'm knee deep in brass right now. Ain't seen action like this since the battle of Nodangtwat Valley.

Hahaha...

What's a "yout"?....

Logic is a relative term unique to each person. I've known people who thought it was perfectly logical to blow themselves up as a quick pass to eternal paradise. I know people who think its logical that 9/11 was a giant conspiracy by the military industrial complex. I guess how folks develop their version of logic is a combination of environment, reasoning skills, life experience and intelligence. I base my logic on life experience and the ability to identify my own prejudices to understand exactly why I think a certain way. This is my method to determining what I believe to be reasonable assumptions.

Anus.

I've never debated that Zimmerman wasn't in fear of his life or great bodily injury. The available evidence suggests that a reasonable person would be in fear of imminent death. I was simply inquiring about your description that Zimmerman was beaten "close to death". Sure. I don't see how any of that would influence my interpretation of what happened between Zimmerman and Martin. I don't feel as if I'm defending him. I just don't think that this was an unprovoked attack from Martin, which would make Zimmerman liable for the outcome. I see some folks say that it matters who swings first, but it actually doesn't. If someone pulls a gun on you do you have to wait for them to shoot before you shoot back? If someone comes at you in an aggressive manner do you have to wait until they land a blow before you defend yourself? I've been in a few fights myself that I threw the first punch before they had the chance to. When somebody gets in your face in an aggressive manner it's safe to assume they intend to physically assault you. In fact, I know of a guy who preemptively punched a guy in a bar who had aggressed him, which resulted in the death of the aggressor. The charges were dropped after there was evidence that he attempted to avoid confrontation with the aggressor. The aggressor never threw one punch. I know that this is anecdotal, but I'm trying to illustrate that these things aren't just cut and dry. Just because Martin was beating this guy's head in doesn't mean that Zimmerman is clear of criminal wrongdoing. Remember, before all the cries from the media the investigator recommended charges of manslaughter. I'd say there's a pretty good chance that this isn't cut and dry as you want to believe.

No, you misunderstand what I say. It is illogical for me to think that this was an unprovoked attack. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but to me it isn't probable that Martin just got it in his head suddenly that he was going to deliver a beat down. It takes two to tango and since Zimmerman was following him from the outset it is more logical that he started it. There are many things that others believe that I choose not to because I think it is illogical. A billion people believe in Islam; I don't. I think it's illogical. People believe that Casey Anthony didn't kill her kid. To me it's illogical that there is another explanation. A lot of people think OJ was set up by police. I think it is illogical that he didn't kill those two. I think this way because I have no emotion towards these things which allow me to think rationally. You said above that Zimmerman was beaten "close to death." I did not know this. Usually when someone is beaten near death they are hospitalized with severe injuries or coma. As I understand Zimmerman was treated at the scene by EMS. Is there something you know that we don't?

The difference is that Zimmerman was doing this as a citizen with nothing identifying as neighborhood watch. I don't care that Martin fits a description. I may fit the description of a criminal but if I'm followed or aggressed by someone I'm going to respond with force. That's why we have police. If a police officer is following me or stops me then I'm not going to assume its for the purpose of victimizing me. Put yourself in Martin's shoes. Think hard about how you would react, at least how you would you feel about some suspicious character following you.

Short answer, yes I believe she was responsible for the death of her child. Next, Martin didn't commit a crime (you mentioned shoplifting) and he wasn't on private property. His father lived there.