TMF

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1354041262' post='851432'] So what your saying is if someone steals something its no big deal if they get killed in the process? Funny the law doesnt see it that way.[/quote] Actually, it does. I have the right to confront someone stealing from me. If they respond with violence I can respond in kind. So, while can't shoot someone breaking into my car, I can stop them with force. If they up the ante I can increase the level of force to match theirs. That is what it appears happened here. If so, the perp is 100% responsible for the outcome. You're having a hard time discerning between the value of the items he stole with his actions after he stole them. If anyone has devalued his life to the cost of the items he attempted to steal, it was the perp himself. He chose to keep escalating the situation to the point he was restrained in a choke hold. It had nothing to do with the value of the items. His death was his own fault. The loss prevention employee has no legal liability here.

Walmart policy and law are two different things. Whether or not he violated Walmart policy will have no bearing on prosecution for manslaughter. Based on what I read I doubt he will be tried for anything. He'll probably get sued by the dirtbag, oxygen thieving family.

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1354034846' post='851356']"One employee said he held the man in a choke hold and told him to tap when he couldn't breathe." So if he doesn't "tap out" like you see on TV you just continue to choke him to death?[/quote] I think that shows that his intent was absolutely NOT to kill him. Plus, even if he cut off his oxygen, that does not result in immediate death. Sounds like an accident to me. Regardless of Walmart's policy, he would have been justified in subduing the individual if he was assaulting him or someone else. If the guy attacked the manager, sounds to me like he was doing the right thing.

[quote name='Caster' timestamp='1354031822' post='851323']It all boils down to what you sound like when you say "Ya'll" If you can't get that right, you'll never make it as a full fledged member. [/quote] My wife left the north for Tennessee about 10 years ago. She no longer pronounces things weird and can understand people without an interpreter. She still doesn't use "y'all" yet though.

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1354031539' post='851318'] So is using a choke hold considered using deadly force?[/quote] I would say no. Not unless he kept him in that choke hold for a while after it was clear he was out. Choking someone to unconsciousness rarely results in death so long as you release and let the blood flow again as soon as they stop fighting.

[quote name='Caster' timestamp='1354028368' post='851285'] Everyone is a victim of their upbringing. I apologize if I offended any GOOD floridians. I've always been told that if you head south through Georgia, you will start heading north again. [/quote] The people of Miami and Orlando are not representative of folks outside of those areas.

I would not be surprised if this show picked up some nominations this year. It has come leaps and bounds over the first and second season. Glad I stayed with it.

If I witnessed a man shoot at my wife he woulda turned into an unrecognizable stain. Kudos to this officer for keeping his cool. Good thing he was there to witness this so this loon gets taken off the streets.

[quote name='Caster' timestamp='1354018998' post='851210']I was of the thinking that Yankees came from the north (or Florida) [/quote] They most certainly do not come from Florida. Floridians can't be held responsible for the legions of New Yorkers, Jersey trash and Michiganders that flock there for tax breaks and warm weather. Trust me, there are more rednecks and good ol' boys in Florida than the state of Georgia and Tennessee combined.

[quote name='K191145' timestamp='1353980866' post='851090'] Well i'm glad you cleared that up, so the next time I catch some thief breaking into my tool shed i'll just shoot him in the back, much easier that way. He started the situation anyway.[/quote] Well I don't think that's exactly what anyone is saying. Folks are mistaking measures taken to protect your property as punitive rather than protective. He wasn't killed because he shoplifted. He was killed because he shoplifted, then fought the security guard. If i catch someone stealing out of my toolshed I have every friggin right to confront them. If they chose to escalate the situation with physical violence you better believe I'm going to respond with a greater level of violence. Besides, f**k this guy. He was a dirtbag, likely raised from dirtbags, and will no longer contaminate society.

If she's really possessed you can count it as a ménage a trois.

[quote name='Steelharp' timestamp='1353943098' post='850772']Interesting statement of how things are today. The divisiveness has got to go away, somehow.[/quote] Yep. I hate it when the libs do it. I hate it twice as much when someone on the conservative side does it. We're supposed to be the mature ones.

At any rate, a great loss to society for sure. He mighta cured cancer or paid taxes someday.

[quote name='Glenn' timestamp='1353768374' post='850010']Went last night. As expected, lots more shooting and explosions, less acting. I thought it was funny that the N. koreans used a "new" weapon, EMP bomb. If you just like going to the theater, go see it. If you just want to see the movie, wait for the dvd.[/quote] You have deflated my balloon. I'm going to comfort myself by binge eating Thanksgiving leftovers and dreaming of simpler times when Swayze was da man. I was really hoping this was going to be awesome.

Every time you buy a Colt at Walmart a kitten is murdered. Other than that, they are the same.

Ya can't shoot someone for protecting your property, however, it is reasonable to assume that someone who has forced entry into your home is armed and that you would be in fear for you life (at least I would). I don't suppose in that situation I'm going to take the time to account for which direction they're facing.... fear for your life and all.

My uncle has been putting down his pigs with his PMR 30. Didn't believe it until I saw it done to a wild boar the neighbors caught. I didn't think 22 mag had enough behind it to penetrate the skull. It does. You start putting holes in something and it will most likely stop or die. If my 1911 was a 9mm I'd carry it too.

[quote name='Dave Shooter' timestamp='1353551092' post='849320']Looks weird but I bet it works.[/quote] I could say the same about fanny packs and crocks.

To the OP, I was in same boat with my first. I always stayed one step ahead of his capabilities. Once he went mobile I started keeping my pistol in a high drawer. Once he started walking I went and got a bedside safe to keep my pistol in, and all other guns went in the big lockup. It's too easy to forget when you're chasing kids around, so better safe than sorry. When I go to kid places I tend to IWB a smaller pistol than my full size so I don't print or have it peek out.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353457393' post='848963'] I can fully agree with that. It does amuse me however than when I vote for the only candidates that actually have a platform that values individual libertyand states rights, I am told I am "wasting my vote" because I don't support either of the big two statist parties. [/quote] Yeah, I'm of the mindset of there being no such thing as a wasted vote, except the vote not cast. I think the only way to get back some seblance of control is to work within the system to get the two parties back to making this country great. 10 percent of the voting population can do this by never allowing an incumbent to be reelected, and swinging the vote to the opposing party of corrupt career politicians. One election cycle of incumbent firing followed by another might get them to actually work after getting elected.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353454548' post='848936'] No, I know where my line is. If you don't have a line, if you are willing to give up all pretense of liberty to avoid the inevitable then the enemy is you.[/quote] Point I'm making is that folks seem to sink all the blame into our corrupt, overreaching government and ignore that we're the ones that put them there. Until we can accept that we can't fix the problem.

[quote name='Chucktshoes' timestamp='1353454003' post='848934'] Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't. The majority of the country has knowingly and willfully chosen European style socialism. The degradation of individual rights and personal liberty will only continue. While most who are involved in the discussion of secession wish for a peaceful outcome, I don't think anyone really believes it will be nice or easy even if in the extremely unlikely event it were to happen. Creating a new government is by its nature problematic and full of strife. All that being said, what are you willing to acquiesce to avoid bloodshed? How far down the road to slavery are you willing to travel to remain comfortable and safe? Where is your line? That is what this conversation is about for me. When do I stop ignoring the oath I took and begin defending the constitution against the domestic enemies in Washington? At what point am I willing to risk everything for a chance at true freedom? Something none of us in this country has ever actually known.[/quote] The enemy isn't in Washington. The enemy is in the mirror.

[quote name='RevScottie' timestamp='1353446125' post='848872'] Not everone else can. Not everyone has the same mental or physical ability to get work done. Many people find themselves at the mercy of an employer no matter how hard they work due to circumstances beyond their control. Some just dont have what it takes to compete in todays job market.I know plenty of people who have made hard choices and worked hard for 40+ years and still have to work retail in their twilight years because its all they can find. That's not discounting anyones hard work thats just stating facts.[/quote] I don't think anyone is equating work ethic with having a less than stellar job. Plenty of hard working folks make a career in fields that don't pay well, have crappy hours and require back breaking work. That is not to say they are lazy or stupid, that's just the path they chose. I come from a very blue collar family of not much means. It isn't because they were lazy, it is because the choices they made set the path for their life. They don't bitch or expect sympathy for the lifestyle they chose. The point is, folks like to attribute circumstance to all the good and bad in the world. That mentality IS lazy and is a cop out. You make your own choices. Rich or poor opportunity doesn't change that. If that choice is to work menial jobs your whole life, then great! That isn't shameful or lazy. But if you look to others with envy and blame circumstance for your station in life, then you most certainly never, ever improve your station.... not so long as you can shirk responsibility for your choices.

Working for a greedy employer, of course.

[quote name='oldmustangjunkie' timestamp='1353383372' post='848608']My grandfather once told me the only thing that stood between me and the life I wanted was me. It's 100% true. The people who bitch the most about their job are usually the same ones who refuse to get training or education to get the job they want. If you work a minimum wage, low skilled job don't be complain when you are treated like low skilled, easily replaceable worker. You can get a new job but it won't come and land in your lap, you have to make it happen. Don't be surprised if it means you have to put out from 5a-9p instead of 9a-5p.[/quote] Say it ain't so!!!