TMF

  Did I kick your dog or something?  I simply disagree with you and brought up some talking points.  Chill out tough guy, it's just the internet.

  Right, so how does that relate to those of us here that obviously know everything there is to know about the case?  I assume, yes assume, that the evidence released to the defense has not been released to the public.  I'm not familiar enough with cases such as this to know what the judge will or won't allow to be released to the public before a case goes to trial as not to taint the potential jury pool.  I also assume that if there is some sort of damning evidence against Z the defense isn't going to want that released until they can provide a context for it in a courtroom rather than the court of public opinion.  Just making assumptions again though.

  You say there is no evidence of any of this.  I asked you a question a few posts back.  Has the prosecution released all evidence to the public?  If not, you have no idea what evidence they have any more than I do. 

  That is his story.  If the defense stories of murderers were immediately taken as fact there would be no one on death row.

  Has the all the evidence the prosecution has been released to the public?  I'm not being a smartass, I honestly don't know.   On another note, how would this situation be playing out right now had Martin been legally carry a firearm and fatally shot Z as he was being chased?  Perhaps we'd be second guessing his actions too, but no matter how you slice it, Martin wasn't breaking the law and Z was chasing him.  We can debate on what the definition of "chased" is 'til we're both blue in the face, but I can tell you with great certainty that if some strange man starts following me and I run, then he runs after me he will be staring down the barrel of my gun

We all make choices.

  Maybe I misunderstood your post, but are you suggesting that I feel as if someone should be put in jail based on "feelings"?  Go back and read my statement please if you believe that was my sentiment.  If my "feeling" is true the prosecution will present evidence to that fact at the case; if not, Z will walk free.  He gets to have a jury and everything, just like everyone else.  If the only facts of the case are the physical evidence then the defense should have no problem raising reasonable doubt in all jurors' minds and the state will be embarassed and there will likely be backlash.   My feelings are also that Casey Anthony murdered her child.  The prosecution was not able to eliminate reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.  She walked.  What are your questions?

  Well my issue here was never with the head veil thing, although I still don't understand why that is necessary for class.  A burqa is in no way religious or cultural.  Not being allowed to drive a car is another one, but that is one of many oppressive laws.  I don't really care what goes on in those countries.  If their men had any sack they wouldn't have their wives' and daughters' actions dictated to them by the government.    The deal with the burqa is something that I don't expect you to understand unless you experience what it represents in a society where a female is nothing more than property.  I really can't.  I'd hate to default to the "you don't know because you weren't there" argument, but I can't help it.  I think the burqa is a visual representation of a society which has enslaved the opposite sex.  That sounds like an exaggeration to some, I'm sure, but it is no exaggeration at all.  I can't imagine what it would be like being born with a vagina in that part of the world, but knowing what I know it would not be pleasant.  I don't think the average person can comprehend what it is like to be owned, traded and treated as property from the time you are born until the time you die.  Yes, we complain about many of the rights that are violated by our own government, but it pales in comparison to what these people must endure.  It pisses me off to even think about, but once again, if their men had a sack they'd not tolerate it.  Of course, the men benefit from the system, and as far as I'm concerned the whole of them are complicit which is why I hate every last one of them that I have ever met and do not see them more than subhuman creatures.   I happen to have just enough sack not to tolerate it in my child's classroom.  Anyone who wants to voluntarily walk around in a burqa is welcome to, but when someone decides it's a good idea to put one on my daughter they'd better hope they have a good dental plan.

You are correct. I'm looking at the exact same piece of plastic right now which came with the serpa holster I'm wearing.

If you only knew the crap that goes on in the awards system. Compared to what I've seen, this Chappy has met the requirements for a meritorious Bronze Star by comparison to what I've seen it awarded for. If I were king for a day, this lunacy would end and Bronze Stars would require actual valor and this subjective meritorious crap would end. This system awards staff weenies with BSMs while giving ARCOM Vs to lower enlisted who were shot while dragging wounded buddies behind cover. Just disgusting. Don't even get me started of these less than worthless piles of POGs who have received BSMs having never stepped foot in a combat zone. One of the many reasons I was happy to leave. The military wants people to feel good about themselves and could care less about the grunts that actually do the work our military exists for in the first place. Once again, for all the folks in the military who want all the shiny medals and awards that have traditionally gone to the infantry, they should have gone into the infantry. There have been more new authorized tabs badges and such in the past decade than the last 70 years, while the standards for everyone have dropped across the board. And when I see a overweight slob of a Soldier that can't IMT unless its vicariously through an XBOX I think to myself how quickly things would have to change if we had to fight a real war.

Not me. Wouldn't matter much one way or the other. From what I've observed there has been race related bias on both sides of this issue from the start. My feeling is the incident was instigated by Z, as it has always been. However, I agree that if the only evidence the prosecution has is the physical evidence from the scene then Z will walk as a free man using the self defense argument. I still am trying to figure how SYG ever made it into the argument at the start of all this. I don't recall Z's lawyers ever suggesting they would use it and it wouldn't apply if Z's story was that Martin had him pinned. You can't make the choice to "stand your ground" if escape isn't an option. We'll see; I'm expecting some revealing evidence to come out when this goes to trial.

And people still ask me why I hated jumping static line so much. They had one about 10 years ago in the Marine Corps where a rigger was cutting suspension lines on the chutes he packed. I don't put a lot of faith in people in general, but when it comes to trusting my life to a lower enlisted guy who I have likely never met it makes me nervous. For all I know the guy's wife just left him and he's facing UCMJ for various offenses.

First, I don't see this as a religious issue, I see this as an oppressive government issue. Notice that I am specifically inflamed by the burqa. The only places where burqas are law, the women are forced to wear them under threat of jail and physical violence. We aren't talking about hair here. I think you really don't understand what it is like in those cultures for women, and the burqa is a symbol of oppression, just like a gold star on the Jews. It would be different if it was simply a cultural norm that wasn't forced. Comparing this to nuns and Amish is absolutely disingenuous of you. Those people have a choice. They choose a lifestyle and the norms that come with it. If a nun wants to run around with her titties bouncing in a bikini, she is free to do so, but she won't be a nun anymore. Choices. Choices are the difference here. There are only certain parts of Afghanistan where a woman can be out in public without a burqa. About 99.9% of the countryside it would result in jail and likely a violent beating. If you can not see why that is oppressive and how it is the garment which is the tool of such oppression then there is nothing I can do for you than offer you to come over and see for yourself. With that, anyone who puts a burqa on my daughter will get punched in the face. I'm a law abiding citizen, but I will not tolerate such acts by government officials against my children.

I would add that the type of armor this guy is wearing is designed to absorb energy very well as plates are overlapped to transfer energy from one to the next. I'm surprised he even described it as a "punch" since enough of the energy was absorbed that he would only feel the resonant force from the strike. And that dude's shorts are distracting. My wife wouldn't let me leave the house like that.

Well that analogy doesn't quite work... let's see him move that 2,500 lb vehicle when the tires are flat. I've moved 10,000 lb pallets off the back of aircraft by pushing them on rollers, but I couldn't move that pallet if it was just sitting on the ground. In a rifle the firearm is absorbing the explosion inside the chamber, so the heavier the gun the lighter the recoil, as the energy is being absorbed by the weight. For example, I've fired a R700 M24 which has quite a bit of weight to it due to the stock and barrel. I fired the R700 my relative has in the same caliber which had a lighter barrel and real light stock and the recoil was far greater. When a person is struck by a round of a certain weight and speed, much of the energy of that round is immediately transferred to the person. If the round is stopped by armor, all of the energy is transferred. Depending on the type of armor that energy could be transferred evenly enough that the felt impact would be minimal. Now, if that same impact hits your body there are more things going on than just energy transfer. You're also dealing with pain and trauma, which is why you see folks fall to the ground almost instantly some times, but that isn't due to being "knocked down" as it is sometimes put. Most folks I've seen shot crumpled forward rather than fell back ala Hollywood. The one guy I've seen hit with a .50 didn't fly back at all. In fact, when you think about it, so much of the energy from that round isn't even transferred to the recipient because it is still moving at a high rate of speed even once it passed through the guy.

Never said that I agree with that, but if that funding doesn't come with conditional agreement that they adhere to certain policies, such as allowing religious groups to dictate who they admit, then they still aren't doing anything wrong. Technically, when I was in the military I was funded by the government, but I could spend that money on hookers and booze without taxpayers getting up in arms about their money being used on something they are ideologically opposed to.

Yup, physics. Think about it like this, if you put a water balloon behind a ceramic plate and shoot it with 7.62x39 the balloon should remain intact. If you put soft armor (soft armor capable of stopping 7.62) in front of the same balloon it will pop when shot, although the soft armor won't be penetrated.

Same here. A guy I worked with was hit twice in his plate at point blank and didn't know it until after the raid. Surely some adrenaline played a part there, but he also wasn't injured so I believe it is probable that he didn't feel it considering the circumstances. I've never been hit in the plate, so I don't know, but seeing hit ceramic plates it would seem as if it would cushion the hit considerably compared to soft armor and Kevlar, especially since the energy would be transferred to the whole of the plate (since it is rigid) as opposed to something that gives.

I think you are correct, but it is still crazy. I run the risk of being a part of the problem now, and not because I'm panicked. See, I would like to get some shooting done this spring. I don't keep stock on non-SHTF calibers, so I only keep stock on 5.56, 5.45 and 7.62. The ammo prices will keep me from shooting them until things get normal again, because my concern with shooting is my ability to replace the ammo I've shot. With .22 I never worry because it is always there. Now that I want to shoot .22 and it's not there, I feel as if I need to purchase enough of it to ensure I never get caught in this situation again, thus contributing to the shortage by buying a higher amount of .22 than I normally would so I can go shooting with confidence that I won't run out of ammo. Ugh...

Comparing nudity laws to laws which force women to cover every part of their body from head to toe is ridiculous. I can't project my experience and memories to give you context for why putting a burqa on a woman is an act of demeaning objectification, but it absolutely is. It is akin to putting a gold Star of David on a Jewish kid. It is complete unacceptable regardless of the context.

Just sounds to me that the University is right, but for the wrong reasons. I think the way this bill goes about is wrong, but for the right reasons. In the end, Vandy is private, so they are free to do what they want whether it be the denial of legitimacy based on their policy or if they just want to ban all Christian groups and build a mosque in their quad.

Wow. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the .22 drought. It makes no sense.

I know it'll hijack the crap outa this thread, but I'm curious as to how the sex offender registry has made anything worse. Seems like a pretty good tool to identify potential threats to your kids, especially since sex offenders tend to repeat.

That's okay, my kit already has so many skulls and various crossed weaponry patches that the awesomeness figuratively shakes the ground I walk on. Any addition to the implied toughness on my kit could create such a density of badass that the Earth itself would be compressed by its gravitational pull. Better to stick with something more subdued, like the good ol' TGO logo.

I'd have to violate my policy of skulls/Latin only tough guy patches on my kit, but yeah, put me down.