Makiaveli

Much appreciated. I'm looking for the bare minimum to be legal to carry. In part because I'm not going to be able to do anything resembling full speed training given my physical condition. I've broken my left elbow, right knee, and right shoulder over the years so getting beaten by a stick is something I'd prefer to not do. To much risk of damaging something by stumbling or even twisting or pulling. I get enough at work.

In short, two questions. First looking for an inexpensive class for baton training. Bare minimum to get the cert to carry. Second, what are the requirements to be a certified instructor as required by the TCA. Tried googling it and checking the TCA but didn't come up with anything. Any suggestions/info will be appreciated.

I agree with you on this. One of them is going to wind up shooting a teenage vandal which will end badly for both.

  I knew that was part of their tool kit, but was under the impression that it was something they had to work in, IE they couldn't bring it up without a justification of some sort. This would seem to imply they could just flat out tell the jury he obviously had something to hide etc etc.   As to them granting a civilian the same courtesy, that's an easy one in my opinion. They would presume the officer is innocent, and even if he did make a mistake, many would be willing to let it slide if they could see themselves in the same boat. So yea, giving him some time to get his wits together, so as to not risk a media explosion over a stupid statement. Whereas a civilian, who is a complete stranger to them, there job is to find out why they did it. The best way to get the truth is ask them right then and there as a criminal would use the time to polish there story.   FTR, I may not have made the best argument above, but I don't have time to sit and polish this post. I am not slamming the rank and file officers here. I am slamming the brass as I've seen innocent officers railroaded on stupid charges just so the dept can give them a day off and make it look like they are policing the police if you will.    The prepared statement idea sounds like great advice, and I would love to hear what Mr. Ayoob has to say. FTR I am not even a little jealous of you getting to attend. :)

    "How hard is this"?    Perhaps you've missed the debate where it is proposed that not explaining what happened can lead the police to suspect you, and being human, they then don't look seriously into other possible suspects since they already have the right guy, at least in their mind?

Didn't see this in a glance over the first page....in short, if you keep your mouth shut during questioning BEFORE you are arrested, this silence can be used against you if you don't verbally invoke the 5th. Seems like this would change the age old debate of what to say or not say after a SD shooting.   Would appreciate thoughts and opinions on this.   Link

What Oh Shoot said.   But for the record, unless I have been mislead, the original Hebrew used the word for "murder" not "kill". The distinction being you can kill a man and you can kill a cow. You can murder a man, but you cannot murder a cow. Even if illegal, immoral etc, killing a cow does not rise to the same level as murdering a man. Therefore, the commandments do not prohibit self-defense.

    I'll play Devil's Advocate.   As he said above, the cops might very well not want the bad publicity, or even just the officer on the scene not wanting to admit it. After all , he or she is human. So it could happen.    As to why and what the charge would be, you shot at and/or killed someone. Add in a statement like "I saw what was happening and decided to help the officers" which could indicate you made conscious choice, and thus were not acting under the influence of fear and it's not unreasonable to think you are a smelly creek with no paddle or canoe for that matter.   Now I know I am not, and doubt that wjh is trying to say this is likely to happen, or that any given agency is prone to this etc. But the fact remains that every single cop/DA/Judge etc are human, and thus subject to bias, emotional issues etc. Yes I know they are screened. But that isn't perfect as the wanna-be cannibal cop from NYC proved.

  True, but for the people we are talking about here, ie people for whom firearms and self-defense isn't an everyday thing, most of them will never get around to looking the info up.    Compare it to exercise. We can look up all the info online. What to do, where, how long, how much, places and prices etc etc. Yet most people only talk about it and never do it unless they have someone to motivate them or go with them etc. So talking to someone about getting a permit could be the thing that tips the scales for them. Or pushes them to actually sit down and look it up online.

Good to know.   So do you know everything, or just most stuff? ;)

Now that TMF's ninja laser has /thread on the whole "Where" portion of the derailment that is this thread, back to the OP. :)   So to sum up what I "learned" in this thread, the answer is : Yes. Because A: If you are shooting to kill, then that's illegal. B: If you are shooting to stop the threat, then because you are responsible for all rounds fired and given you are more likely to miss...   Is that a adequate summation, or do I need more schooling from you learned folks? :)

Just be sure to remember that it could be a totally different person living there. IE the address was added to the database and never updated when the person moved down the street. Or more likely, just updated with their new address, thus making it appear there are now 2 offenders in the area etc.

  Unless the charge and/or the 30 days part leaves you unemployed.   I know businesses can, but can individuals call and schedule a pick up? 

  The problem I have with that is when you are in the left lane and could easily merge back into the right. You do realize it's illegal to pass on the right, even if I wouldn't have to speed to do so?   Now for the record, I am not talking about me being 6 inches off your bumper at 70mph, I'm talking about following you at a safe distance for 12 miles while you putter along.   **edit** Didn't realize this thread was 6 pages long and I am beating a dead horse. Just worked a 12 hour shift so I think I will go away before I say something really stupid.

  I know several members of that 6% that don't carry anymore, or only rarely. Plus add in all the grumpy old men who never go to theaters..... ;)   Seriously though, if you have 100 people in the room, I doubt 6 will be carrying the majority of the time.