Mousegun

Abbreviations should be banned

The bad part about the concealed only permit is that possibly there will be states that don't want to deal with it and drop us completely like Minnesota did when Tennessee allowed active military under the age of 21 to get a permit. Instead of simply disallowing those under 21 for reciprocity, they dropped us completely. I just hope other states my not follow their lead because of this stupid carry permit.

First of all, many of the Nashville Republicans should have the middle name RINO. I bet the reason they passed this lousy bill was to hinder efforts to go Constitutional carry like 17 other states have and the Tennessee Firearms Association has been trying to get through for years. The state of North Dakota has already told Tennessee they will not honor the Concealed Carry Only license, only the original Enhanced Carry one. When Tennessee passed concealed carry for military personnel under the age of 21, Minnesota dropped us like a hot potato in lieu of simply denying the lower age carry license. They took the easy way out so they didn't have to deal with having to determine which permit was which. Now it remains to be seen if the other of the 37 states that honor our permit will drop the lesser of the two permits only or drop us completely. Spend the extra money to remove any potential problems the new permit will bring.

Minnesota dropped TN. because TN. now recognizes military below the age of 21 to carry. In stead of discounting the "kids" in its law, Minnesota simply chose to drop TN. completely. It has now become the "People's Republic of Minnesota."

She locked it for an even worse reason than the above. She had to into a gun free zone and leave the gun in her car. She figured if anyone robbed it, the gun would be inoperative and cause no further harm. It is the gun free zone that makes all the reasoning bad. There should be none.

My friend's wife bought a TCP 380 wing. The one with small tabs on the slide to assist in racking. She let my wife give it a try in anticipation of a future purchase. I cleaned it for her, polished the ramp and breech, lubed it and returned it better than before. Yesterday she calls and said she couldn't rack it. The slide only moved about 1/4 inch. I had her bring it over this morning. I played hates trying to get the take down pin out, but eventually it came. I got the slide off and attempted to pull the trigger with no luck. The hammer stayed back. Bout that time my brain kicked in and I looked at her and said, "where is your key?" The look on her face was priceless. The TCP is one of the few semi-autos that can be locked inoperative as a safety measure. She sheepishly reached in her purse and produced the repair device. I unlocked it and showed her how to put the gun back together, while all the time she was apologizing and saying how she now recalled locking it. I told her a gun in a locked condition is worse than a paperweight and we both had a good laugh.

Good manners would be protecting those that need protection.  As the military once said, "Don't ask, don't tell."

Just don't understand why they are calling it a metaphor.  It's real man.

As stated before, Tn. is a "carry state" and it is your choice if you want to conceal or open carry   ----   BUT   ---- It is a very good idea to assess the situation before deciding to open carry.   For example, here in East Tennessee where I am, there are a lot of people from other states (me being one of them) that do not have the same carry laws, if any at all, as we do.  The call, "man with a gun" can get you plastered against a wall or the like when a LEO that may not feel the same way about open carry or not even know the law comes on board.  This did happen to a person I know.   Now anyone can jump on the bandwagon and say LAW SUIT in their loudest voice but is it worth it?  That is a choice, but IMHO that would not help anything.   Some may also say, "we should educate the public".  I have also heard that before.  I guess if you want to go on a self education program, again, it is another choice.   We don't have a group as active as the VCDL (Virgina Citizen's Defense League) where people come from all over the state in numbers and go to places open carrying to show the population that the man with a gun is not a terrorist and will in fact help little old ladies across the street.   I have heard that west of Nasville and somewhat east of Memphis, it is not uncomon for someone to be seen open carrying.  That is a geographical condition or conditioning.   I do not open carry but I also don't kill myself to hide my firearm either.  I have an outside the waistband holster for my Springfield XDS 45 that I cover with a "T" shirt and I have never been questioned so far.  If I do, I will simply say it is my "HELL PHONE". :rofl:

When I discuss this subject with others, they ask.  "Has it come to this that teachers should be armed" and I simply say yes it has and as soon as more people recognize that fact, something may then get done.   Arm the teachers that WANT to be armed.  Give them tactical training.  If a bad guy comes in the north end of the school and the SRO is at the south end, that will do no good what so ever.  If a bad guy comes into a classroom, let him deal with an armed teacher that is right there on the scene to protect his or her classroom and most likely those around them.

I lived in the NY / NJ area and talked to a number of LEO's there. They all said that a gun bust was a good bust for their record and it usually held up under most all circumstances. That being said, discretion may be thought of as a bit of a reach. I would suspect that a LEO that let someone go and was later found out he or she did, would be in near as much trouble as the poor unsuspecting victim that brought the gun there in the first place. Yes, we should know the gun laws of the state we are going to but with so many people getting permits these days, and unfortunately many of them are not nearly as interested in guns as we are, the margin for error is ever increasing. This makes it bad for those of us that keep up with things due to the media coverage and how they love crap like this.

There are probably more guns being carried in NYC than in most other places in the country. Septin' they are all illegal.

If you were out in the street and you left the hockey stick at home but you had a"goalie cup" with you, would it have been different? I feel that showing the kids a firearm while they were in the house and maybe even sinking a shot into the floor to make sure they were wide awake (IF YOU HAD TO), would probably have changed their mind real quick. Remember, in many states, mine included, the castle doctrine would have avoided a brandishing or discharge problem. They are in your house or in this case a relative that you have the right to defend. I too, would not like to shoot a bunch of stupid kids for doing something even more stupid but I may have second thoughts about confronting 4 of them with a hockey stick as my only source of protection. I am well past the stage of hand to hand stuff with teenage kids. Packing at home +1

Home invasion can take place anytime, anyplace, anywhere. Just think if it happened to you and you had the opportunity to stop it if you were just packin'. Could you live with yourself if you lived through it?

So if there is a business with a brick and mortar store that does not allow firearms and I go to their web site to buy something, do I have to dis-arm?

When I got my Kel Tec PF-9, I decided to make my own. Well, half of it is mine, the other half is an Uncle Mike's. I bought a black mouse pad from Wally World and used that for the backing. I was able to glue and sew the pieces together to come up with this configuration. Although the PF-9 is small, it is still a pocket-full but it can be carried in the pocket of jeans and pants with standard size pockets. It will not work if the trow are too tight or the pocket is small. The gun can be accessed readily and it is easier to get out than to put back in but that is the idea, isn't it? This is the side that faces inward toward the leg. This is the side that faces out when in the pocket. The dark area is another layer of mouse pad to flatten out the profile so it doesn't print. Bottom view.

How nice and how somewhat unnecessary this all would be if state law did not make it a crime to enter a building that was posted unless if asked to leave, a lawful firearm carrier would refuse. This is the law that should be changed, NOT proper verbage of a sign.

I have been beat up a little in past posts (not only on this site) when I suggested how sweet it would be if the posted sign meant nothing in the eyes of the law. Many say it is the owners choice and I agree but if the sign didn't hold a law break (unless you were asked to leave and refused) we would have the best of both worlds. You could enter a posted building concealed and not be violating a law. If the owner somehow "makes" you and asks you to leave, out you should go. Most of the time I hear you should just not patronize the business but there are situations that make that very impractical, like being out with a group of people and a good distance from the car etc. Now that we are making progress, I hope more of us start agreeing that our posting law still could use a touch up and drop the misdemeanor associated with it.

A while back I started a thread titled, "The day after restaurant carry". The discussion led to an open carry vs. concealed carry debate and many of the posters didn't feel that many restaurants would post due to $$$$ and revenue issues if they did. I hope they are correct but look what has taken place up to now. Hasn't Nashville made a move due to a loophole in the State liquor laws, to deny any restaurant that doesn't post, its beer license? Here in east Tennessee, there is a bit more liberal influence from a larger northern population (hell, I am one of them but far from a liberal) and it may bleed over to some of our nicest restaurants. Again, I hope not but just in case, I have rough draft of a letter that will go to any owner or manager that posts a "no guns" sign. It may not do a bit of good but at least I can say I tried. Here she be: --------------------------------------------------------------------- As a firearm carry permit holder, I have been thoroughly and carefully scrutinized by a number of agencies. The Federal Government, the State Government, local police departments and my own past actions. If any of theses agencies would have detected a hint of criminal activity in my past, and if my own past actions would have led to any misdemeanors, felonies or convictions, I would have been denied the permit and probably not been able to get it in the future. We as responsible permit holders have an obligation to ourselves, the general public and our fellow holders who have chosen to become the “masters†of our own self protection. Our past and future actions have not and will not jeopardize ourselves or those around us. There have been virtually no problems with legal carry permit holders in the state of Tennessee. and we want to keep it that way. Please re-consider your stance on legal gun carriers (permit holders). Do not deny us the privilege of dining at your restaurant and our right to defend ourselves, families, friends and others if the situation demands it. We recognize the chances of this ever happening are very slim but in comparison, there are millions who play the lottery. Statistically any given individual has less of a chance of winning than he has of needing to defend himself. Yet he still plays and no one seems to think the less of him for it. Why then the negative connotations against those who take self defense responsibility upon themselves? Remember, we can not drink while dining at a restaurant that serves alcohol. This has been firmly made clear in the new law and it is fully accepted. Only legal and law abiding citizens will be effected by the sign you posted on the door. Criminals will pay it no heed. At least you can be sure if you allow legal gun owners to enter your building, you know that he or she has been proven in the eyes of the law. Can you say that for the people at the next table? My family and I can no longer dine at your restaurant because of your stance and denial of my Second Amendment rights and I will discuss this situation with the many carry permit holders I know in face to face conversation as well as internet postings. Again I ask, in light of the information written above, please re-consider. You and your patrons will be no less safe if you do. Over 30 other states allow restaurant carry and it has proven not to be a problem. The news media, as they do in so many cases, sensationalized and misprinted numerous articles up to date on this subject and swung a good deal of public opinion against it. Our State Legislators saw through the media rhetoric and passed the law on the strength of reality.

NO, what I meant was simply don't OC while our new law in Tennessee is being tested for a while. Cover up meant conceal. No intention of any law breaking here. If posted properly, don't carry at all or don't patronize the establishment.

It's a good idea to keep in mind that the early days of restaurant carry will be carefully scrutinized by a lot of people and organizations both friendly and unfriendly to the cause. It really is up to all of us to point this thing in the right direction. Just like the new law went in our favor, future laws that could favor us may be jeopardized if there is any problems with this new one. Most newspaper reports were quite negative or had a less than positive slant to the law. Even Fox News reported to a slant that bordered on, "how crazy is this" when they covered the story. If you OC, maybe, for just a little while, you may consider a cooling period while the new law settles in. Tuck it in. I know this may get a negative response or two (or maybe even three) but we had a great win on this one and I am sure we all would like to see a bunch more like it. I am not saying that OC will destroy what we got but none of us know the full effect of what we are embarking on.

In the last few months, there have been more carry permits issued than ever before (gee I wonder why ???) but before that, there was a level number being issued. These went to people that really were informed and decided inwardly to become the masters of their own self protection. My bet is that many of the recent permit requests could be attributed to a panic condition (look at what is happening to ammo availability) and a bit of schooling may be in order when it comes to the paniced ones. Give the OP a break. He made a over the top statement about putting guns on tables ---- true, but the concept of the post is not that far off base. There are a lot of new CCW carriers out there now that may not have the "experience" that some of the old timers have and could just possibly make it difficult for us as a whole without meaning to, due to that lack of experience. The choir is partially now a new breed that may need a little bit of practice so any suggestions on how to sing is not preaching. I have confidence that we will do well but all it takes is one slip up to blacken the eye of us all. We are all responsible for not only ourselves but for everyone that has a carry permit. The media has made that so.

I honestly hope I am really off base with my assessment of this from my original post but I have already read in a few papers quotes from restaurant owners and managers that they will post "no gun" signs. I also hope these are few and far between but we shall see how it goes. I WANT to be proven wrong on this issue and hopefully NO "no guns" signs go up.

Assuming the restaurant carry bill goes through (one that was long overdue), I throughly expect a lot of signs will begin to grace the portal of some of our favorite eateries. Other than the old standby cry, "if they don't want my business, I ain't gonna patronize em", what are your plans when these signs start popping up? The non patronizing thing sort of worked when a few places posted and it was easy to go somewhere else and when it was totally illegal to enter an establishment that served while carrying but this law adds another level to the equation. I suspect (but hope not) that a good number of restaurants will start gluing signs preventing us from legally entering with our firearms. I personally plan to do a lot of discussion with managers and owners in an extremely civilized and logical manner. I have a planed series of logical arguments against the signage and respectful requests that they take it down. I know that in most cases this will do little good but I have also decided that doing nothing and just giving in is not in the cards. Anyone can do that, it is the easy way to tackle it. I don't do easy. If after the discussion, I see it has gone nowhere, I will then tell the owner / manager that I am forced to post the name of his establishment on the many firearm forums to which I subscribe to let others know the business doesn't trust legal carry holders with their patronage. I will thank him or her for their time and ask they reconsider at a future date when the initial fear factor wears off and they see other establishments have had no problem.