LawEnforcementSalesTN

As I cop all I can say is try to be the bigger and better person on the side of the road because yes, sometimes we can't ':o) I've been a officer for over 15 years in several agencies across SC and TN. I can say I'm seeing more and more officers getting into NFA for their personal use so the knowledge is out there. Yes you will have an occasional a-hole in the bunch that makes us all look bad but I promise you there is more good guys than bad. I try to educate my guys too and offer classes to our staff. I also get called occasionally when a conscious minded officer comes up on something they don't understand. They'll call, I'll tell them what to look for and they're ok. Up her in TN my experience in my area is they really don't give a crap about NFA this or that, most will think is cool, we're a poor county. If anything they may ask to hold the item and even take a picture of it. 90% of the time it's suppressors and especially machineguns that seem to get some bent out of shape more than others but again, I know in my county 95% of the officers know me, have been at the shop and most have transfers pending with me now. As long as there's one cool head on scene, you or the officer it will usually be ok. You get 2 hard heads arguing those are the ones you see on YouTube. If it's me I may keep you on the side of the road talking guns longer than you'd like but I get stoked when I come across someone shooting or carrying an NFA item. Usually I can even pull a new customer out of the pile :o) Stay safe! Sorry TG, didn't intend for us to digress from your original post. I'm going to grab a drink on the beach. Back later guys :o)

Well they'd scrutinize you more than most OS :o) jk. You're 100% right earlier with having parts where you had a legal use ok. No legality at all not, to the letter of the law. But I'd be a little more concerned with having a completed AR SBR upper lying around (unless you own an AR pistol which we know you do) that could be popped on and off your AR rifle readily as opposed to a parts kit disassembled lying in a box. Would I drive around with the parts in my car, I would not. If they're after you yeah they're going to look at anything they can stretch or find. I just wouldn't see them kicking any doors down and making a fuss over someone who had a box of parts and is waiting on his form to come back before he builds anything. Turning this into an am I 100% legal you would/should have the parts in distinct locations. Readily available however we all know is going to be their interpretation when/if they're looking. They have never and I doubt they will put specifics on what readily means. It's going to mean whatever is convenient for it to mean to any prosecutor at the time of an incident. If anyone has the capacity to split their items up and store at different domicile by all means do so I'm just saying if I felt if intentions and common sense were easily articulable I feel one would generally be ok. Technically all the vendors at the gun shows who have AR rifles and/or lowers sitting on a table with short barreled uppers they're selling too are actually in violation of the law. We all know the reg was written for those with rifle and a short barrel with no intentions on using them legally. When, who and how that is enforced is up in the air.

Really depends on the flat. The ones I use already have the trunion holes drilled. I'm not 100% in the know on what constitutes a 80% ak receiver. The bent ones I've seen shippable with no 4473 have been complete boxes with no holes provisioned at all. But again AKs are not my specialty. There may be some bent versions with letters approving them as 80% but I've always operated as once bent it's a receiver. I dabble with the mp5 flats too and I know for certain once rolled and welded they're receivers at that point. I know too both in flat state are non firearms.

I'm back for a little bit :o) OS has is correct, in the almost 30 years I've been dealing with this mess I've never seen the ATF go after someone for constructive possession unless they were just pure a-holes or you were already in trouble and the CP was just a tack on peripheral charge. Could they, yes. Will they kick your door down I seriously doubt it. Given you already have an AK to shoot, if it were me, I'd wait as long as you possibly could to start building. If you have all the parts and jigs and such I'd even wait for the form. It's the correct thing to do. Pinning the barrel is going to be a pita if you're just going to un pin it when approved. I personally like to headspace and drill for the barrel pin when things are assembled. AK wise, it's considered a receiver when the flat is bent. Trunion(s) in or not. Just keep that in mind if it matters to you. I wouldn't worry having a short barrel along with your built AK as long as you had a kit and a copy of the filed form 1 and the flat is still a flat. I know there are many here that hate the ATF but everyone I've met has generally been nice and down to earth and will respect you if you just respect them. But given what you've written here it personally wouldn't push the issue and would sit on things for a while. If you must shoot it, get the gas block, hand guard retainer and rear sight block on the barrel and then have someone pin it. I've made pilots before that slid into the barrel and sit on the edge of the compensator or shelf of the barrel. A barrel with a pinned comp can still be pressed into the trunion if done properly. Outside of that, paper forms are taking about a year to approve and efiled ones are over 6 months now. Just giving you some approximate timings if you happen to not know.

TG, the AK is not a difficult weapon to put together IF you know the basics.  Not trying to sound condescending but I sincerly hope the super glue comment was a joke! ;o)   But seriously, based on some of the questions you're asking I'd suggest surfing some of the AK specialized boards and reading all you can.  Nothing wrong with wanting to assemble the weapon yourself and there's a ton of information floating around out there where folks have done just that.  The way I see it, you have plenty of time so I'd highly suggest getting more familiar with things and then ask the final details of what doesn't make sense maybe... read and re-read... you can take a nice kit and be throwing it in the trash a few hrs later if you're not careful.    From reading your post, I assume you've purchased a kit.  Also assume you have a receiver and all parts ready to assemble.  Finally assume you have filed a form 1 to make this legal and the post is leading towards what can be done in the interim of now and the time until the stamp comes back.   You have a couple of options.  Some you've kinda stumbled on already ..   1), Not sure the length of barrel in your kit but if it's less than 16", you could have a smith pin and weld a compensator/extention on the barrel to bring it to 16".  You can then assemble the kit with the stock and shoot until your stamp comes back. Then remove the pin and comp/extension and put your final compensator on it (may have/choose to have a smith do this too)   2) IF the receiver is virgin, meaning it's never been built into anything and/or it was built into a pistol when you bought it, you can assemble the parts kit in pistol form.  The stock piece is iffy to me ... Some will argue and NO I have not personally talked to the ATF myself but I'd have some concern over having a stock readily accessible or having a stock-ready rear trunion .. that's just me ... I see folks with AR stock tubes on their pistols all the time.. me, I'd feel better with a tube or portion that wouldn't simply take a shouldered stock piece easily .. to each his own.  All the AK pistols I've seen or worked on have had full stock rear trunions with the rear tab ground off so you can't bolt a stock back on.    3) If you don't want to build this yourself, you have plently of time to work out the details with a competent smith and them be ready to jump on things when your stamp does come in.  While they're not my speciality, I've built a handful of AKs in a matter of a good afternoon or two... took longer to parkerize and cerakote them than the build... To build them properly/factory, there are a handful of specialized tools you're going to have to buy or make.  Things can get pricey or time consuming if you're only doing a single build.     Factory AKs are riveted together.... you'll need to make some rivet jigs as (most) of the rivets are impossible to get to without a jig or make-shift tool... they can be a real PITA to get to.... in fact, many first time builders will use screws and bolts if they don't have the capacity to do rivets.    To answer your last question more directly though, the trunion on a AK style platform has to be riveted/bolted to the receiver BEFORE you press in the barrel.  There's several rivets that get seated and the barrel goes over top of them making it impossible to do in the reverse order.  If you're doing this yourself at minimum you're going to need access to a Shop Press to press the barrel into the trunion.  If you rivet, you're going to need an AK rivet jig for the front trunion and trigger guard rivets.... there are ways to build single use rivet tools that will suffice for the home user / builder.  A set of go/no go gauges are highly recommended (I've seen barrels and trunions sold as headspaced but be dangerously off).  Then, I'm guessing you have a receiver already??? If you're bending your own receiver from a flat, you're going to need an AK receiver flat jig...    I realy hate to post like this and then leave but I'll be out of the country starting tomorrow until the 26th... when I get back I'd be more than happy to talk to you about the build process and point you in the right direction, offer any help I can verbally and/or up to performing any smithing you'd like me to do for you. They can be very fun rifles to put together and can be very forgiving with tolerances and such but they're not as easy as assembling an AR or some other weapons.    Good luck!

Bird, John is spot on... If I'm reading more into your ? though I think you're asking can you set up a trust now and buy something 10 months from now ... sure can but the fingerprint/CLEO regs will be what regs are in effect when you submit the item for transfer not when the trust was/is created... so if you had a trust now, bought an item now, then currently no fingerprints, cleo, etc... but regardless of when the trust was created, it's what's in effect when the item you purchased goes through the transfer to you.   So EVERYONE with a trust set up even 20 years ago will have to do what the regulations state at the time of their next transfer ... so otherwords, getting the trust set up now does nothing for you except save a little time and effort for anything you buy NOW ... next month it may be different hoops we ALL have to go through.

And just that quick..   The eForms software is not performing to our expectations.  As a result, we are taking the eForms system down until further notice.  We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your patience as we work with our industry partners to deliver a quality product.  Any eForm submitted will continue to be processed.  The finalized forms will be sent to the user via email.   Until the eForms system is returned to service for the industry, all imports forms (Forms 6 Part I and 6A), NFA forms (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 9 and 10), and AFMER reports (Form 5300.11) must be submitted via paper, including any eForms in draft status.    

  Yeah exactly ...   they use to not have that "retains control" verbiage ... some (as myself) still take that as immediate control   Take this for instance, currently STILL on that same set of FAQs ...   Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm? Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA “firearm” is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn’t comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.   The original removal of barrel quesiton USE to read very similar ... they've changed it significantly but as they stated above, a weapon that does not meet the definition... a 16" barrel no longer meets that definition .

More specifically Hersh....   http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html   looks like their nomenclature has been updated since my last reading... use to be more blatenly clear (I'll try to find my old ATF NFA handbook) .. they've also added all that maintain control BS, I see the doc is dated Nov 2013...   But anyhoo...this is how I've always understood it to be, how I'm sure it once was, and how everyone I personally known in the field for the last 25 years I've been dealing with NFA operated... whether it still is, who knows... take if for what's it worth.  I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV ;o)   My understanding ...   1) IS 100% ok for registrant (only) to temporarily add 16" barrel, travel across state lines and come back and reconfigure to SBR status (IF it was legal prior) - as is relates for 5320 puposes AND IF the < 16" barrel parts are not kept with the SBR'd lower or in immediate control during the transport   2) IS 100% ok to add 16" barrel to SBR weapon and then sell the weapon as a standard title 1 weapon ... pending the non SBR form is legal.  ATF asks but does not require that registrant sends a letter to branch explaining SBR is no longer a SBR,etc... I do recommend doing this but again, it has never been a requirement but a request.   3) is NOT ok to add 16" barrel and registrant temporarily loan weapon to friend, etc then bring back and reconfigure..... THIS would be considered a transfer per GCA and thusly the reconfiguring of SBR would require a new Form 1.   4) Destructive Devices (DDs) and Machineguns are the only NFA types that cannot revert back to their previous status.  Their removal from the NFA registry is only thru destruction of the item per ATF specs (torching receiver in 3 parts, etc.)  This thusly left SBSs and AOWs in the same category as SBRs.

  Not talking about moving or transporting a 'NFA' item across state lines WHEN in NFA configuration...I'm talking about it is perfectly legal to place a 16" (or longer) barrel (temporarily) on your SBR registered lower and drive to a buddy's house across state lines - no notification is necessary... come back and put your short barrel back on.  Point is a SBR is ONLY a SBR when it has a short barrel.  Unlike a machine gun, once a machine gun always a machinegun, SBRs, SBSs and AOWs are only regulated when in the offending NFA configurations.   SBR Barrel length only matters when it's < 16"   But yes, If you're permanently (moving) or temporarily transporting a SBR across state lines (interstate) in it's SBR configuration you MUST get prior approval on an ATF 5320. 

They DO care what number you use but they record what you put in 4g NOT 4h. Using the original serial number IS acceptable and is the norm, not the exception. But you can issue a new one if you so choose. Serial numbers are not unique. It's manuf, model, caliber and serial. I would not suggest duplicating serials for multiple guns that YOU make but as long as all 4 parts are not identical it will fly. Point being the serial number they'll place on the registry will come from what you put in 4g and what you put in 4g had better be on the gun. If you took original gun serial 1 and when you filed you put serial 234 in 4g, 234 had better be engraved on the gun. You could have made reference to serial 1 in 4h if you like. As far as honor, you can do what you'd like but I'd highly suggest you have an approved form 1 (copy is fine) with you when you shoot if you're carrying a NFA weapon. A little to your point, you can legally put a 16" barrel back on your gun and it is no longer a SBR. You can carry it interstate legally and shoot somewhere else. Come back home and reinstall your short barrel.

ATF allows you to use any markings that already exist on the receiver.  Normally, folks will use the model, cailber and serial # of the original manuf so all they're engraving new is their NAME and CITY/STATE.   You CAN create all new markings but it's not necessary.. 4H would be where you put any additional markings you'd like to disclose but it's the least important out of the series... you must have NAME/CITY/STATE/MODEL/CALIBER and SERIAL #.

Keep in mind they don't have to be tightened too much... the set screw will lock in and keep the rail from turning if the barrel nut is on tight.  You can get a piece of derlin or a plastic punch.  Brass works too but you have to be careful it doesn't slip.   I use a CNC tool holder spanner wrench.  As Lumberjack says you can catch one of the slots with the head and tighten a bit.  I snug all of mine and then lock the set screws.  To the point you can remove the set screws and untighten the rail by hand.   Never had one back off

  I think these were their old test servers ;o)  My old commodore 64 could have supplied more bandwidth than these puppies do... jeez guys... run it on an iPhone... hell a etch-o-sketch would be faster than this ;o)

it's running, you just think it's not .. it gets that bad ... great for a hour or so in the morning and then they do their wonderful system maintenance right in the middle of the morning.. great logistic planning there boys!!   if at first you fail... try, try, try again ... took me 3 hrs to get 2 filed the other day... I was pissed but I really try to get these things in same day a customer pays me... just doesn't always work out that easy though.   Good luck.

What are you looking for Prof?  I have NFA customers who have never even seen me before ;o) ... their luck I guess..   Depending on what you want to get or what you want done everything could be done via email or mail ... just ask some of the fellas here ...   If one of my distributors has what you want I can get it here in 4-5 weeks.  We efile between us .. Carry AAC, YHM, SilencerCo, Surefire, Tactical Innovations, TBAC... several others.    PM me what you're after and I'll let you know if I'll be able to help.  As much as I despise the system, I do efile absolutely every time I can now .. it's just crazy if you can but choose not to ... my paper forms are 12 months now!!

Whatcha making? ;o) I'm assuming 1 is a suppressor.

Had to hone the release catch a little on a Solo I have. It was a little tight for my liking. Just check for any sharp/rough edges. You can use a fine file and keep checking. Usually doesn't take much. Even a folded piece of sandpaper may take the bite off enough.

Easiest I've found has been PDFs but they can take BMPs, JPGs,etc. You can only attach up to 10 files and each individual file can only be a max of 3mb. So if your trust is more than 3mb you'll/your dealer will have to split the document up into 3mb or smaller chunks. I've found it very easy to do with adobe.

Yessir, as long as you're a trust or corp e-file.

Dawg,   I shipped a couple of M&Ps off for some of the DOE boys to Salient Arms .. they added a blade trigger and did an absolute AWESOME trigger job.. things came back with triggers as nice as my pricey bolt guns.... I know they're very expensive with their work but I tell you honestly, night and day difference hands down.    Everything else M&P I've seen is either a love or hate... haven't had too many customers in the middle.. most either say it's their best gun or they wind up dropping it first chance they get.  I'd recommend finding an indoor range and seeing if you can rent one first.  I've always liked the Smiths I just find some don't fit my hand too well and regardles of how great they look, I never can shoot em well.   Good luck!

Keep in mind that was December ... EONs ago in ATF time ;o)    My last 4-5 mailed forms that have come back are tracking to 11+ months now.. I'm into a full freaking year on a few...

Been spraying coatings for years...duracoat, gunkote, cerakote... you name it... love, love, LOVE the air dry Cerakote!!!... OMG it's so simple and much easier to maintain as well.... shake it up, spray it ... store the rest... Until I reach something it just doesn't work for it's all I'll use right now.   As with them all, the prep is the most critical .. prep it right and it will hold up.

I have no dog in the fight but saw this posted on the sturm board a few days ago.  I've known Jeff for many years and believe the man is in the know ..   here's what he posted - his shop is called SAW Inc.     SAW INC. will not be participating in this "fiasco" created by sig sauer. During shot show delears were allowed to purchase select 1911's and were offered free 1911 22's in exchange for purchasing these pistols. Apparently the word was not conveyed properly that the dealer was to use this product to give to consumers for FREE if they purchased same product from dealer, hence no incentive at all for dealer to participate. To make matters worse, apparently the "man in charge" and we will leave HIM nameless just announced to the distribution market, who is currently giving DEALERS a free 1911 22 for every TWO guns they buy, that if the dealer does not want to participate, even though they are NOT getting a free gun for every gun they buy....that they should tell the customer....."WE ARE NOT PARTICPIATING BECAUSE WE ARE NOT A PREFERRED SIG SAUER DEALER" SAW has always been amajor sig dealer, apologize for inconvenience to all who purchased in last few days, and you are entitled to a full refund. Hopefully whom ever is responsible for this at SIG SAUER will be reprimanded and this will not happen from such a prestigious company in the future.

That's Great news Jamie!  Thanks for the post, this is some good stuff and it's nice to see a recent line up like that.  Mark did a great job running through the most popular.    Those Specwars are nice cans man, you won't be disappointed. My distributor just called me yesterday, finally got their initial shipment of Silencercos in.  I've got a few Sparrows on order as they've been like unicorns to find but you guys wanting Ospreys and Octanes give me a call and I'll price em for ya.   Thanks again!