Wheelgunner

I think we all know this, but it's worth mentioning anyway: "Bugging out" does not mean going to the woods. "Bugging out" means leaving a dangerous place and going to a safer place. Generally we think in terms of getting away from highly populated areas, on the presumption that due to fear most people will stop acting rationally and become a threat to their neighbors. But getting away from that threat does not, as a rule, require you to set up a tent by a creek and start eating opossum. That's one method, but it has numerous drawbacks, the most salient of which is lack of supplies. But there are any number of approaches to getting away from the masses. I have seen self-storage facilities in rural areas that would be perfect for a bug out location - rent a small space in which you store supplies, weapons, etc., complete with a fence/wall. Great for students who live on a campus far from home and can't keep firearms in the dorms. I've also seen municipal and county facilites (water pumping stations, etc.) that are off the beaten path but still offer a tall chain link fence, four walls, and a roof for anyone who is forced to take shelter there during an emergency and brings a couple tools to gain access. Maybe even your place of work could serve well. Most business buildings would be deserted during a prolonged natural disaster or other event, and if you stash some gear in the ceiling of a bathroom or janitor's closet... you get the idea. Just want to encourage everyone to think outside the box.

Dr. Detroit summed up my personal plan of action in the event of a SD shooting. Personally, I believe encounters with police are part of the SD episode that we all prepare for and hope never to experience. I consider a good working knowledge of my Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendment rights just as important for self preservation as training with my handgun and choosing the proper ammo.

Wjh, I really like the idea of getting to know all about one line of revolvers, and then using that company's line to suit your handgun needs. My carry gun is an SP101, and it does (well) everything I need a carry gun to do. I'd still like to get either a longer barreled GP100 or the new 4.2" SP101 for those times when I go out in the woods. Great thread!

If a LGS ever sold me such an ineffective weapon, I would make little effort (if any at all) to have them make it right. I'd just take the issue to court. Maybe some of our more experienced members have dealt with stuff like this before. Would this apply to a non-functional rifle? - http://law.justia.co...art-3/47-2-315/

I don't understand. How does the employer even know there's a gun in the employee's car in the first place? How does the employee know that's prohibited? It's not like this stuff comes up in your average hiring interview. "That's great, Bill. Based on your experience and references I'm sure you'll fit right in here. By the way, I know you've said absolutely nothing about firearms and that our conversation is completely unrelated to them, but I thought I'd let you know that our company policy prohibits legal handgun carry permit holders from storing a handgun in the trunk of a car while parked on company property. So do you have a handgun in the trunk of your car on company property? No? Fine, fine. Well, when are you available to start work?"

Despite how unusual it is for a stranger to walk up and try to take someone's handgun, I agree with the author's point that armed citizens should be more concerned with weapon retention. But then he says some genius thing like this: "I’ve done that scenario on dozens of students. It almost always works. I end up with their gun and they have a puzzled look on their face." Well, sure none of his students can stop him from disarming them. He's a damn combatives instructor at a police academy! He wouldn't be much of a martial arts instructor if he was incapable of disarming the students he gets paid to train! That has no connection to the common criminal on the street, who is probably more skilled at picking his nose or scoring some H than disarming me. I figure the odds of me ever being assaulted, disarmed, and robbed by a 16-year veteran police officer and expert combatives instructor are about the same as the odds of me being a sandwich. But in regard to his comments on police involvement, I have to wonder if the author has ever met a real life police officer. Perhaps I go too far to assume that most cops are smart enough that, when responding to a man with a gun call and upon seeing everybody acting normally, they will realize what has probably happened (i.e. paranoid caller + HCP). I'm no rocket scientist, but if a guy in a store actually drew a gun and started threatening people with it, as a responding officer I would expect to hear customers screaming and running, and to see people hiding or a complete absence of anyone in the store. Contrary to what the author implies, cops aren't stupid. They have to make tough decisions every day and apply common sense to analyze stuff in real time. They generally do that well. They're cautious, but none of the cops I've ever met are unreasonable enough to tackle a guy as he's choosing toilet paper or comparing light bulb prices simply because they see a holstered handgun on his hip. The author claims that criminals are not deterred by OC. That's great. I don't OC to deter criminals from accosting me. In fact, the reason I carry is I expect some stupid criminal will do just that. When I OC, I do it because I want easy access to my weapon for whatever reason. Or I do it because I'm going to a place where nobody will mind, and it's more comfortable. Or I do it because I'm only going on a quick errand and really don't care who sees my weapon. Finally, at his fourth point his argument against OC completely falls apart. So, because people have plastic holsters they shouldn't OC? What if I buy a nice leather holster? So now it makes sense to OC when it didn't before?

Bassman, what was the price of the level III course? Were you allowed to bring your own ammo for the class?

I'm wondering too. I emailed my state senator last week and have not received a response or come across any news. However, I think our representatives are in the process of trying to end this legislative session quickly, meaning that if the bill gets passed it'll be some last minute backroom deal.

I'll be there in June. Never done one of these before, but it looks fun. Definitely want to take advantage while they'll still train me for free.

I didn't think anybody would care, much less know the case. Otherwise I would have attempted proper citation. If anybody else is interested, it was People v. Goetz, 506 N.Y. S.2d 18 (1986). You can read it at http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/archives/p_goetz.htm . Interesting to read the wiki stuff first and then the case, since the case itself makes little mention of the timing of the shots, who was in danger besides Goetz, etc. While students learn about the legal doctrine of self-defense from this case, Goetz probably just learned that life is a lot less complicated if you don't ride the subway.

Yep, traps made the list. When you take into account that they are a reusable source of food, they weigh almost nothing. Also, seems like in a SHTF you'd have a lot to do. If instead of hunting you can set out a few traps and then focus on the next task, so much the better.

I love that your son is ready to do the right thing in an unsupervised situation. My money says before he's a teenager he will have convinced a few kids at school to do the same thing despite their parents being less proactive than you.

Read a case today from the '80s in NYC where the guy was confronted on a subway by four BGs. They made it clear that when the car cleared out he was gonna have trouble. BG no. 1 then walks over and says, "Give me some money." The defendant pulls a J-frame and shoots all four BGs. Then he goes back to BG no. 1 and says, "You don't look so bad. Here's another one for you," and shoots again. Turns out they were armed with screwdrivers, knives, etc. Despite the fact that he was carrying illegally, a jury acquitted the defendant of all charges based on self-defense. Great, right? However, in a later civil suit the estate of BG no. 1 was awarded something like $5 million based on the defendant shooting him that second time. My point is just to highlight that if you shoot after the threat is neutralized, even if you don't go to jail there may be severe civil consequences.

I agree with you. We all know that driving while talking on a phone leads to bad results, so I can only imagine that talking on a phone while preparing to fire in SD would prevent you from focusing on the threat. Along with that, I've wondered several times whether it's worth calling 911 before the confrontation with the bad guy. Essentially, dialing 911 gets a bunch of people on the scene quickly, and that means a bunch of people potentially in your field of fire, people who might not announce their presence... You see where I'm going. Are there instances where it makes more sense to wait until after the threat has ended to call 911?

It was a disappointing surprise to see such a level headed man respond to the trouble in Florida by indicating a gun's culpability. Obviously if the guy had been carrying a rake on his patrol and had killed the teenager with that instead, nobody would say that the heart of the problem was the rake. The argument doesn't make any more sense when you substitute one object for another. It's just another version of the same old nonsensical liberal mantra. Guns don't magically go off on their own. They don't kill people simply because they lack a trigger lock. And they certainly don't cast a spell of aggressiveness over an otherwise normal person. If a man picks up a firearm and suddenly feels the need to involve himself in an aggressive confrontation, he accomplished the entire psychological process in his head. The gun was not a part of it. Furthermore, as I understand the structure of our Government, a state can't pass a law in contravention of the federal constitution. A local police department's orders only have legal weight because of the authority of the state, meaning that policemen, also, cannot make unconstitutional rules (such as forbidding watchmen from legally carrying handguns). Therefore I fail to understand how participation in a neighborhood watch program somehow nullifies a citizen's constitutional rights, such as the right to bear arms. If that is legally possible, what other constitutional rights does it secretly render moot? Can soldiers now be quartered in my house without my permission because I am a member of a neighborhood watch? The gun-free neighborhood watch argument just doesn't hold water.

I wish somebody had told me to carry my knife on the opposite side from my handgun. That way if somebody tried to grab your weapon, you could retain it in the holster with one hand and bring out the knife with the other to go after their hands. Another one is that shirts with stripes or patterns print a lot less than solid color shirts. But like Mike.357 said, nobody notices an inch or two of barrel sticking out the bottom of your shirt except cops and other HCP holders. Experience is really the best teacher. Keep carrying responsibly and the rest will sort itself out.

From what little information the article contains, this seems to be BS. You generally don't get discharged (or even punished at all) for making comments like that, and I'm willing to bet that there's more to the story. Often a leader knows a soldier is bad news before the soldier has done anything meriting severe punishment, and that leader will wait to act. Then an opportunity will present itself, and the leader will drop the hammer for something seemingly random like this. All that being said, when I was on active duty I had better things to do than post controversial comments on Tea Party websites. I feel bad for the guy, but maybe he should have cleaned his weapon more, or done more PT, or spent more time training his soldiers...

A 2" barrel Ruger SP101 in .357 Mag loaded with 125 gr. Hornady hp ammo, with one speedloader. I usually carry in a Galco IWB holster at 5 o'clock, but when I hike I use a Fobus paddle holster at 3 o'clock. Same thing in the winter, but with ball ammo instead of hollow point.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. True words, though, about coughing up enough dough for a good carry gun. You can probably get away with skimping on most other areas (HD shotgun, paperpuncher rifle, trunk monkey) but that carry gun has to be 100% reliable. While you're in this vulnerable state of disappointment and frustration, I have to suggest a J-frame or Ruger SP101 as a pocket gun that will never let you down. Hope you have better luck with whatever replacement you choose.

I like the idea of being armed in the woods with a viable hunting weapon. I usually carry a .357 when hiking. .454 is a whole different class than .357, but certainly not overkill. If God forbid you got attacked you could push the muzzle right up against something and still have 5 rounds you can count on. If you don't end up using it, you still challenged yourself by carrying 4 lbs of hand cannon instead of a much lighter adequate weapon. Isn't challenging yourself the whole point of a good hike? Carry that big b@stard and then enjoy the bragging rights afterward.

@ the OP - I like that you and your wife were both there to react. It seems like I see a lot of lone parents with more two or three kids at the store, grocery, etc. When I see that I wonder, "What would you do if something bad happened right now? How would you get both (or all three) kids under control/protect them/get them to the car quickly?" Doubt it could be done. Like herding cats! Obviously, as they get older, this is less of an issue. I think the right answer starts with not leaving the house with more kids than you can handle (or in this case, pick up). I'll remember your story for a long time. Thanks for posting.

I think that's a good combination. Be sure to post some pics when you start rounding them up. As far as speedloaders, take a look at speed strips, too. You might be able to use speed strips with the Marlin.

1. 4.2" Ruger SP101 in .357 Magnum ...... $600 2. 18.5" Marlin 1894 in .357 Magnum .........$600 3. 18" Marlin 795 in .22 LR .........................$140 4. Mosin Nagant in 7.62x54R ......................$150 5. 50 round box of Magtech .357 SJSP x 3..$ 60 6. 500 round box of CCI 22LR LRN x 2........$ 45 $1595 later you have a hunting/self defense carbine that shares ammo with your sidearm, which you can hunt with also if need be. You have a .22 for small game and practicing marksmanship, and a long range rifle. You could realistically carry all four at the same time, with the carbine and .22 slung, revolver in a holster, and carrying the Mosin. You could load .38 ammo in the carbine and revolver if you're worried about overpenetration in a small home. The .22 rifle will give you better self-defense performance from the small 22LR cartridge than you would get from a .22 handgun. IMHO these weapons are well suited for family use because, unlike an AR or other automatics, they do not require extensive training on failure to fire drills. Teach your family the basics of weapons maintenance and muzzle awareness and y'all will be good to go. If you bought either of the .357s used you would have enough money left to get some ammo for the Mosin and cleaning kits for everything.

I don't think we are at a higher risk of being the subject of a traffic stop, etc. simply by way of holding a TN HCP. On the other hand, I see no need to ever buy (or convert) a SBR, a fully automatic weapon, or do anything else that would get my name on the federal radar. It's not a matter of paranoia; it's just my take on keeping a [cringe] honest government honest. Personally, I don't think anything like a nationwide confiscation will ever be attempted, much less successfully implemented. And I don't think that's due to some Red Dawn citizen guerrilla reaction it might cause; I think there's just a LOT of voters who own firearms. However, I do believe it's important to be vigilant.

I forgot the best part: She told me not to shoot any snakes while hiking the trail!! Obviously had no idea that the law says it's illegal to fire in a park for any reason except defense of one's life. I guess it's become well known that we permit holders conduct our weekly snake-shooting jamborees in state parks on Saturday mornings...