Warbird

While I agree with this statement, I will also go back to the original question and say the Serpa is a lousy choice for a suit. I wear suits quite often with my handgun. I have tried several options, but I prefer the OWB leather in a nice high ride so that it sits high up on your side. They are not the most comfortable thing to use and button the suit, but neither in shoulder for that. I just don't button my suits. But you never see the holster or gun with the suit jacket on and it is comfortable. I have both a Mitch Rosen and a Don Hume that both work well for this. As for the Serpa I will also add regarding the model with the push button release, I have witnessed a person who had some dirt or other small matter get itself into the mechanism of that button. Any foreign object has the potential. Anyway, he could not get that button to release and that would not come out of there. At the time I witnessed this I had several remark to me that they had seen it before. For me that is the only time I have seen it. Still, that was enough for me.

Ford's does a great job and does Mahovsky's. Did you buy this new? Is it one of the original XD's. Early on they had real probs with finishes and rusting issues. You might want to contact Springfield.

Deleted. Your entire post is complete and utter rubbish.

LMAO... IF it had been left up to those groups you wouldn't have any rights left. They are impotent.

It would depend on where it is and exactly what is included. Can you get it for less? Absolutely. With as good a guide? You bet. Do you pay a bit of a premium to hunt with him? Yep. But all in all probably not exorbitantly high. When buying hunts it is very easy to miss a lot of fine details thinking you are getting a great hunt when in the end you could find that you pay more than some which on the surface seem to be far more.

The anti Masonic biases are nothing new. The accusations of demonic rites and such are nothing new. Any society which has powerful people in it and which selects members only by personal invitation opens itself to such. The very first third party in the US was the Anti-Masonic Party. Catholics have at times had issues with Masons, primarily beacuse there was a prohibition at one time on Catholics being members, which prompted Rome to say Catholics couldn't join them either. Both have since been dropped. That said usually it is certain groups of fundamentalists and evangelicals who have had probs with Masons. The most anti-Masonic words come from the conspiracy crowd, the black helicopter crowd as I call them. They see conspiracies in all corners of the universe, consider the book None Dare Call it Conspiracy as just below the bible. Some of younger folks may not know a lot about those guys as many of them keep to themselves since the Oklahoma City Bombing, when they were certain the government would move forward on all of their plans which had been in the works for 50 years. They see certain banks as well as organizations like the Masons and all "secret societies" in the US as being the masterminds of the plots. Thomas Jefferson actually predicted such would happen. He cautioned and chided his fellow founding brothers not to join any organizations which met behind closed doors, like the Masons and the Order of Cincinnatus, while serving the public. It's just an FYI. I have gotten off subject, sorry, but I thought some would like to be enlightened to some of this history if they had not been exposed to it before and why some make these claims. FWIW I am not a Mason, nor have I ever been, though my father is. And while I am not one, I do wonder about their future and that of groups like them. I have been to meetings of different like clubs and associations. The one thing I have noticed about them is that my father, who is 66, is often a young'n in the room. For whatever reason they do not seem to have been successful at replacing the departed like they once were. As I am not one, I would really be ignorant in hazardng a guess as to why that is.

Good for you. There are only so many of those guns and there will be less in the future. They were well made guns and all of the old well made guns will continue to be worth more. It is part of Americana. There will be no more shotguns made like those old ones, nothing against the new SxS, but it isn't the same.

Your gun is actually not a grade 3. It is a field grade gun. The dog is the indicator. The grade 3 is a bird. Each grade had its own engraving markers. I don't see it listed anymore. If you are still selling it let me know, I might be interested or know somebody who might be if not me. ITHACA HAMMERLESS - 12, 16, 20, 28 ga., or .410 bore, 26-32 in. fluid steel or damascus barrels, boxlock, extractors, double triggers, any standard choke, checkered pistol grip stock and forearm, grades shown differ in overall quality, ornamentation, grade of wood, and style of checkering. In 1925, the rotary bolt and stronger frame were adapted (ser. numbers after 400,000 - commonly referred to as NID or New Ithaca Double). Values are the same as for pre-400,000 serial range shotguns. Ithaca doubles incorporated a number of design changes made on the action - they are referred to as the Lewis, Crass, Flues, and Minier frame variations. Add $200 for SST. Add $150 for SNT. Add $350 for VR on Grades 4, 5, 7, and $2,000 Grade. Add $200 for VR - lower grades. Add $175 for beavertail forearm. Add 33% for auto ejectors on Grades No. 1, 2, and 3. Subtract 33% if without ejectors on Grades 4E-7E. Early hammer doubles in average condition are approx. valued between $175-$450. However, if 60%+ condition remains (including original case colors), values can approximate those listed. Values below are for guns mfg. between 1925-1948. Field Grade 12 ga. Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60% 50% 40% 30% 20% 10% $1,000 $800 $600 $550 $500 $450 $415 $380 $350 $325 $300 $280

If you think there's any chance at all you will like skeet, then you will want to try sporting clays as well. If you think it's a possibility you'll like it, then DO NOT buy a dang pump gun. Sure you only shoot twice, but having to rack it once is enough to throw off your timing. Especially in sporting clays when shooting true pairs. Get something that will take you through to at least competent level. A good start is a semi-auto. You could buy a cheapo, fairly crappy hunting O/U, not built for sport or for the same money have a pretty decent used Remington 1100. The inexpensive O/U are not bad guns for hunting where you shoot usually 15-20 time maybe. That same gun will not hold up long to the rigors of sporting clays, 100 rounds per shooting round. Not even my Baikal hunter will and those things while not refined, are built like tanks. You can use the 1100 for other things too, but it will make a nice skeet or sporting clays gun. Get something that has 26" or 28" bbls. An O/U is a great clays gun, it is what I shoot I love them, but you have to have a quality one and because of the cost to build a high quality well regulated one, a nice semi is the better choice. OK now here's the most important part, find a gun that points for you. If it doesn't point, I don't care if it is $100 or $5k, you'll hate shooting it and drop the sport, as you likely will trying to get good on a pumper. Holding the gun in a ready to mount position focus on a point a few yards away. Close your eyes, mount the gun and open your eyes. Is that gun pointed in the same place? This is more important for shotguns than any other guns. It has to be an extension of your outstetched arm and pointing finger. If it isn't it won't do. I personally shoot Berettas, why? Because of the quality clays guns they point the best for me. I have shot Guerinis and K Guns that were $15k. Couldn't hit a thing, mainly shot over everything. They are all just different enough to make a huge diff. Now top end shooters then take guns that point well for them and spend hundreds or more fine tuning them to fit perfectly. You don't have to worry about all that. Just get a decent semi and give it a whirl. In my opinion sporting clays is the most fun of just about any shooting sport out there, though I like CAS and 3 gun as well.

I would advise you to reconsider your asking price. 12 gauges are not collected except for the most highly sought after names, ie LC Smith, Fox, etc. If you look on gunbroker you will notice some of these guns have been listed many times for their asking prices and most close with no bids. You cannot go by blue book on old guns, especially shotguns. There are too many variances. You can do what you want, but if you want to sell it I'd rethink the price. I think you initially paid a fair price for it. The market is also soft on all guns of this sort right now. People are buying up the guns they fear not being able to get in the future.

That's fine I will stand corrected if so. At one point TN would not recognize AL permits because they did not require any class at all. The lack of an signed agreement should not make anyone assume it means a state would not recognize your permit.

Tennessee does not have a contract with Alabama. Tennesseans can carry in Alabama because they recognize our permit, but not vice versa.

You can buy a decent new or used semi-auto Beretta for not too much money. Any good O/U for sporting is pretty expensive. You can buy an inexpensive hunting model O/U, but you wont be getting much. O/U are just expensive to make and sell. I would also recommend a decent Remington 1100 with chokes. You don't want fixed barrels. Semi autos have the least kick. What some think is a good gun because they hunted with it have never shot it for a hundred times and then made a decision. These are two different things entirely. Do not buy a Ruger Red Label for sporting clays of any kind especially if you mean for the wife and son to shoot it. They have a rep for being one of the worst kicking guns of any O/U made in the world. A pump is a very poor choice for a clays gun. Some very good and fast shooters can use them. Most can't. It is a lousy choice for a novice trying to learn. If you get a decent semi-auto you can aways sell it easy enough. I will warn you unless your wife and son are about the same size you may have one who can shoot it well and one who can't. Shooting clays of any kind depends on a shotgun that fits. Otherwise learning will be frustrating and often people give up too soon just because they cant get it all because of an ill fitting gun.

I agree completely. Shooting from 25 yrds is stupid. If you want to practice some at that distance fine, but for tactical reasons or qual reasons that distance is absurd. If they are 25 yards away, unless they have a gun at you and you have absolutely no place to hide like in the middle of a field and they have a rifle on you, you arent going to defend yourself in court. I watched this done recently. If these folsk were being shot at from that distance with the tme they took for each shot, a good shooter would have already laid them out. And of course most of the foks who ended up doing poorly by the end did so becuase of the 12 shots at 25. Until then most were doing pretty well.

I saw a nice Ithaca double at the gun show in Franklin this weekend. Guy had a great price on it. I wanted to look a bit and not carry something around so I didn't buy it. Went back a half hour later and it was gone. Oh well. It would have made a nice field gun. I'm mainly an over/under shooter and I would like a nice Field Ithaca O/U. I also shoot Edwardian and Vintage SxS tourneys and like field models for days with inclimate weather. Saw a nice LC Smith but the guy thought too much of it. It was a 20, which SxS in 20 are always more expensive, but it was still too high none the less. Looks like you got a good deal there. You could havea gunsmith who knows old shotguns look at it, but I'm pretty sure you're safe with any regular load in there. Those old guns, except for the ancient damascus guns made for blackpowder are pretty dang well made. There are men all over the world who still shoot them all the time.

Ruger is months behind on this gun. I doubt any dealer there had one. It does exist. I've shot it. Might even know a couple who own one.

Is that factory case hard and well padded inside? You definitely want a case well padded. The bag handlers to not handle gun cases any more carefully than they do regular luggage form my experience. And that isn't exactly good.

Can't take a shotgun hiking in the park with you. Oh and buck shot isn't worth much on a pissed bear, may slow him a bit, may not. Slugs, slugs. I have at times carried my Glock .40. I don't necessarily consider it sufficient for bear, it is sufficient for most animals or a bad guy walking about looking for trouble, which I've never seen in the woods personally. Usually I carry a S&W 681 .357 revolver with some nasty rounds in it. At times my .45LC. I prefer a DA revolver. If I am trying to kill a bear with a pistol it is likely at me or on me. I need to be able to possibly fire while being attacked. Bears are exceptionally fast. They be on top of you at times before you can cycle your rifle if you miss. A revolver is easier than an auto in these instances. Keep in mind usually it is a sidearm to a rifle for me though. If I am using a pistol it is because it is too late for the rifle or its been knocked down etc. As always aim for vital areas, head, spine, throat. A shot to the gut will not slow him down. People will tell you they have known of bears to be killed with just about everything. That is true, but it is usually a docile bear being hunted when the shooter gets to aim careful and pick the best spot. An angry bear is another matter entirely. I have known of bears to take a shotgun slug in the face and keep going. Carry the biggest thing you can comfortably carry, ie. not a Ruger Redhawk with a 7 1/2" bbl. I like the 357, 45 LC, .44. It's a survival weapon not a hunting one, you don't need a 454 or 50.

Ludicrous. Yeah tell that to all of those people I shot with at Gunsite and numerous other places. They'd laugh in your face. Glocks will screw up your mechanics Unless you are extremely well versed and practiced you should always keep the same basic designs in your carry. I know people who are well trained enough to carry their 1911, High Power and Glock and never ever skip a beat. It's all about practice. If he practices with the Glock and carries it he will be just fine. PErsonally I keep to the same basic designs and different sizes, that is they way I was trained. I do not carry a 1911 one day and a DA revolver the next. Practice and similar systems to me is the key. Unless you are well racticed in defensive combat for several systems. Defensive combat practice is not going out to the range. Todd makes some very good points to the difference between the Glock and XD. As I said in the end for me it would probably matter most what feels comfortable. One other thing I do not care for on the XD is the fact that you have to have the grip safety pressed in sufficiently to rack the slide. That compromises your safety in several ways. One other factor, the Glock has an excellent bore sight radius, the XD doesn't. That being said, I have no real beef with the XD or the Glock, I've shot both and think both are well made firearms. This notion of somebody telling another that a gun won't fit their hand and mechanics is a real pet peeve. The XD has better ergonomics 'to me' that doesnt mean the Glock has terrible ergonomics.

I would also think the better argument would be brandishing a weapon. If a guy has a bat raised or a knife out in his hand, is that a situation where you are in mortal danger? Could be. If you two are separated by a vehicle or other such object it would certainly be different than if they are your face. Yeah sure he could throw the bat or knife, I would say your chances of getting out of that situation are better if there's an object separating you two. As was said there are an almost unlimited number of scenarios. I would contend the better trained, informed, practiced and are you are the better you will judge situations.

I'd pick the one that fit me best, not the one that fits someone else best.

Uhh no! You are wrong. If Bredesen left office Ron Ramsey, the Lt. Governor, would become the Governor. Kent Williams would remain Speaker of the House.

While I understand the sentiment you are trying to make an analogy to, it is incorrect. The gas shortage was very real caused not by rumor, but by a hurricane in Houston, the main supplier to our pipeline running from the gulf to Georgia and Tennessee. What it did cause was panic and the shortage was made worse by the people topping off their tanks constantly. However, there was a very real shortage of gas and the panic was caused not knowing when that pipeline would be full of fuel again.

No, it isn't.

While you may feel it would, facts simply do not support that. In places in this country at different levels of government where term limits are imposed, politicians feel unencumbered by the weight of having to get re-elected and what follows is increased spending, increased government intrusion, more liberal policies put in place. You do not get a more conservative elected body by term limiting, it's just that simple. It isn't time in office which corrupts it is leadership and power. You'd still have the same with term limits. This is a free country and we should have the right to elect who we want and if I get a great one in there I want that person to stay as long as they hold to those principles.