Warbird

Sure you COULD kill them with a 22 if you are close enough. Unless it is a perfect shot a longer shot could also certainly mean death but it would run and die quite a while later. I know people who hunt wolf with 22 as they want the hides. Then again they know the trick to getting very close. Personally I would go for something more powerful.

Savage make an excellent rifle, especially in the smaller calibers. I highly recommend them. As for the 243 I would not say it is ideal for anything but dangerous game as someone suggested. However for your needs it is certainly adequate. It will kill deer and works OK for yotes, though like smaller cartridges for yotes. I have hunted with 243's in the past with success. I no longer own one, that I recall, as I am covered with 17, 204 Ruger, 223, 22-250,25-06 and 270. I just don't need one. Personally I like bolt actions for this type of round. That is my preference. As I said, to me the Savage is a great rifle, for the money maybe the best. 243 is inexpensive to shoot and offers many choices in manufacturer and ammo. I would get some Nosler and some Barnes and see which one works better in the rifle you get. Good luck.

Lots of experience. Great pistol. I have had several of them and run thousands upon thousands of rounds through them. They are an old company and there are tons of parts and aftermarket accessories and upgrades available. Mine have ranged from carry ready to race ready. Very accurate, very reliable.

Beautiful shooting gun, but typical for a shotgun. Many times people buy shotguns because friends own them or they know the name. But a shotgun is all about fit. I love Beretta's. I can hit easily with a Beretta. However i can't hit the broad side of a barn with a Cesar Guerini, very nice, fairly expensive shotguns. Never buy a shotgun until you have tried to see if it fits your body style. If I was you I'd sell it and buy one that does fit you. Browning might work better or Guerini, who knows but there is a shotgun out there that will fit you much closer to correctly.

Hex the biggest problem I have with you is you never really say how you feel.

Stoeger is best known at this type or their coach guns they make for cowboy action shooting. They make several shotguns, including some that work fine for these situations and for hunting. I have known many who tried to shoot sporting with them and w/o fail 8 out of 10 could not stand the beating. The frames and receivers do well enough, they are tough in fact, but usually they lose a lot of accuracy when hot, they break internals a lot and their pinions become loose fairly easily. Again what will last a lifetime of hunting often will only last a couple of years of medium sporting shooting. You don't need a $10k plus Beretta, K gun or Perazzi to have a nice sporting gun, but you need better than the typical lost cost hunting O/U.

Go with a semi-auto. Get a used Rem 1100 or older Beretta. You can get a used semi that will hold up to the rigors of a sporting gun. Inexpensive O/U will not hold up to any amount of serious shooting, though they are fine for the field and hunting and the couple of times a year sporting shooter. In general a good skeet gun will interchange well as a sporting clays gun. SC is to me the most fun of all and the most like hunting. Skeet is OK to learn on, though for many it becomes boring after a bit, but you might like it for years. I will say though most SC shooters like a longer barreled gun and most skeet shooters like a shorter faster swinging gun. Trap guns don't usually make the best skeet or SC guns because a trap gun shoots higher than point of aim, skeet and SC guns pretty shoot right on POA. There are some real value quality O/U's to be had for $600-800 such as the Lanber, but in general a quality O/U built to withstand 100-200 shots a day for perhaps several days in a row or more will cost well over $1k. My best advice is to buy a good used semi to learn and upgrade later. Inexpensive O/U's kick hard and break often under these types of shooting conditions. Don't buy one. For the best information and the best informed shotgun experts on the web check out shotgunworld.com

I have never found it to be that much of a PITA. It is pretty simple and I have never had any problems at all. If you want to see PITA wait until you take your guns out of the country. Now that is a PITA. Then you have to fill out all sorts of forms, usually pay a fee to carry a gun into another country. They require to know the SSN# and such and then match it against the gun when you return. Every TSA office does things a bit differently. However, I have almost never even been asked to show that the gun is unloaded. All in all though flying with a gun is fairly painless. In the past month I have taken mine to Canada and Texas and will be taking one next week on another flight to someplace. Some countries want the gun to be completely intact when entering, some such as the US want the bolt to be removed from the rifle when entering, if a bolt action gun obviously. Even still I have rarely had issues flying internationally.

I am not what I would consider pistol hunter. However, I have shot hogs with a S&W 357 4" and a Ruger Redhawk 44 Mag with a 7 1/2" bbl. Neither time was I hunting hogs. One was an opportunity and the other defensive. My Bowen 454 Casull 4" has dispatched a couple of rather nasty animals. Again though a handgun hunter I'm not. I've never put scopes on my large pistols.

Consider yourself lucky. If you don't get that bite the BHP is a great design. I get the bite on my old 1911 as well. I use a very high grip on my pistols. Unlike the 1911 which is easy to fix the BHP isn't.

I believe the application numbers have slowed down somewhat since the major influx of last year and early this year. That is the reason for the quicker times.

I like the BHP design but I hate the hammer bite.

Well I guess there is too much info and there is also too little info. Making a suggestion that any one caliber is a panacea for everything is absurd to being with. As I stated earlier I have personally never even see a rifle which will shoot all of the range of possible loads and bullet weights for its cartridge accurately. To simply state anything is the best possible one rifle cartridge is stating generally, that you have little experience with anything related or have experience with only one thing which you are extremely comfortable with and that's all you know. But, in the end it is a detriment to underthink or overthink the choices. Gun lover are this way by nature though I am convinced of that. I meet thousands a year and few look at things with great objectivity. They love to sit and debate ad nauseum on calibers, ballistics and what not. And yes some really really get into it. Me personally, I know the basics in my head. After that I will have to look it up on reference as to what the drop will be on a particular bullet weight and load combo for the next several hundred yards. Or the velocities of loads and every single cartridge under the sun with its power ratings. It just doesn't interest me to keep it all in my head. Some absorb that stuff and they are extremely knowledgeable and experienced and some are not. It generally doesn't take long to know which is which. Some just comes from being around the right people and experience. Some of it you just retain over time. What I love to know is the history of guns, rifles, great shooters, great hunters etc. I do get a kick out of that. I will leave the great debates over caliber fights and velocity and power ratings to others. There are parameters and those are facts, the minutiae of the absolute best choice is speculation at best. I only worry about knowing specifically what I need to to serve my next purpose.

To be honest when I first read this post I scoffed at it. But the more I think about it the more valid the point becomes. The problem goes back to the fact that we really have no understanding of the needs of the OP. So now we are really just having conversations. I am not a plinker. I do not like to go to the range and shoot a hundred shots of a rifle. My purpose in going generally is to make sure my hunting rifle is sighted in for the purpose I will need it next. I may, if it is a rifle I have not fully experimented with, run several different bullet weights through it of different manufacturers to see how it reacts to those loads. I will fire it from the bench, I will take a few shots offhand with a sling, probably a few with shooting sticks standing and sitting to reacquaint myself with the feel of that rifle. I will fire no more than 5 times without letting it cool off. In the mean time I might do the same with a couple of different rifles at once or shoot a 22 or 17 for fun. Shooting at paper doesn't do much for me. I did that in comps for years and that was probably more because my wife liked it so much and she loved shooting long distances all day long. The only time I shoot a lot is in defensive pistol practice or with shotguns at sporting clays. However, on days when I am introducing someone to shooting or for any reason will be shooting a lot I will likely grab my 308 Mannlicher or 308 Mauser. They have thousands of rounds through them, my usual hunting rifles mostly have a few hundred. If that is the OP's purpose, Magnum rounds for a number of reasons are not a good choice. It isn't just the barrels life cycle, it's the barrels daily cycle. You just don't go shoot a box of ammo through a magnum rifle in a couple of hours. Not if you want it to last long.

If you don't have any intention of using it sell it. I wouldn't put any money in it. There are people who like them just as they are and you could buy something nicer and what you want with a bit of extra cash after you sell it. I am also left handed but have always shot bolts right handed. I just got used to it because I can always shoot someone else's rifle in a pinch, or usually so. The only crappy part is some of my favorite rifles are not to be found in left handed models and because they have a high cheek piece on the left side of the stock I can't shoot them left handed. Oh well. I find it is not much of a distraction except under one circumstance and its the most important. It is downright dangerous in hunting dangerous game.

The NRA insurance is excellent. And it's a great deal.

I agree completely. Sometimes I carry my maxpedition around if I have numerous things to get done and am in need of multiple items. For the most part I just keep it in the truck. I am certain some people who carry notice it, some people who have a thing for packs of all types notice it, kids today love their packs. Maybe even a few see it and wonder why a this guy is carrying around a murse they don't snicker or laugh though as I am not the type who looks like I would take it well. Most people pay it no mind at all. NONE! Like you said they don't seem to pay attention to far more obvious things around them, things they should be paying attention to, much less a guy carrying a pack of some sort. I am constantly scanning personally, aware of everything around me, but that is my training. It comes as natural to me as they obliviousness comes to them. And criminals are not any better at noticing anything at all. They are mostly idiots who have one thing on their mind and have to think about that as all of their brain activity has to focus in order to walk and chew gum. They time and again don't notice people around them with guns. All of this crap about signs on your back is garbage. Heck you could literally put a sign on your back and most criminals would never see it. What predator criminals do see is meek people, alone, looking like they fear the world or are oblivious to everything around them and wouldn't notice if somebody snuck up on them. That's what a criminal notices. Oh an as for the original intent of the thread. I went with a maxpedition pack after all. I needed something that could stand up to all of the abuse they claim they can. Anything less would be insufficient for my needs. I might still pick up one of these just to have an extra bag around if needed.

They kind of had me off their radar with the name. Not much exotic about hog killin'. Fun, but definitely not exotic.

Oh that's cold. Try as I might I do not like Wby Mags. Now if you really want to talk BIG GAME rifles we could compare the merits of the 375, 416, 470 and 500. I prefer the 416 Rem. It kicks less than a 375, can kill just about anything and though I love the 416 Rigby, the 416 Rem is far cheaper to shoot for the same basic ballistics.

I think if I was to buy only one more rifle and I wanted something to take advantage of just about any hunting opportunity in NA I would look at 30-06, 7 rem mag or 300 mag. A 308 will get just about anything here, though it is minimal for big bear at safe range, or elk and moose at long distances. People will tell you that you can always use heavier bullets but I have found heavier bullets in anything can be unpredictable in accuracy. Most rifles truth be told won't shoot everything accurately, most have some sort of favorite usually in the middle of their cartridge range somewhere. With the three above cartridges you can take just about anything, though a large bear is marginal at a long distance with those 3. With that exception you could shoot almost anything in N&S America, Europe and most plains game in Africa. To me they are the most versatile of the most well known cartridges. This is the way I see it, if you get to by some odd chance hunt with someone for something very special that you may not ever get to hunt again, do you want to take a chance that the cartridge you own is marginal for what might be only a very long shot. I err on the side of caution, but that's jut me. Then again you may feel you will never have a use for anything that big and then a 270 or 308 will suffice and the shooting will be cheaper. If you want a bigger rifle for possibilities then look hard at one of the ones I listed above. I have no real preferences to the ones listed above, I like the 7mm rem mag for its flat shooting, the 30-06 for its functionality and the fact that you get get ammo for it almost anywhere in the world and the 300 mag because I think it is a pretty good mix of power and recoil management. I look forward to hearing what you are planning for if anything specifically.

This is the most important question of all and one asked by a couple of folks already, why do you need another caliber? What need do you need to fill. Without that info it seems folks can just suggest till the cows come home for their favorites, but that won't necessarily serve you. If you need something bigger I wouldn't simply move up to a 270, that might not be sufficient. Please tell us more about your needs. I will say this though, stick to rounds which are numerous and old school if you will, where you have many choices of gun and ammo. These are the guns I pick up to take with me most of the time 204 Ruger 270 or 25-06 7 Rem Mag 416 Remington Mag They will handle just about anything in the spectrum. On lesser occasions I will pick up the 300 Mag and lesser often still the 30-06. If I am blowing away prairie rats then maybe the 223 since the ammo is much cheaper than the 204. Lately though I have preferred the 22-250 to the 223 for that. Others will have their favs as well, if you want to heed their advice make sure your needs are similar to what they do and need. For instance I have no use for a 30-30 at all. I don't own one and wouldn't go buy one, no need for it. But if you like the way they shoot and it fits your needs, check them out. Also find what works well for the action you like to use. My lever guns are all in pistol calibers, a holdover from shooting cowboy stuff. My only semi-auto other than fun guns are 22's. I primarily like bolt action rifles and when I feel especially giddy, double guns. Overall though I am a bolt action kind of guy. And the choices out there for those is unbelievable.

Maybe the one you shot or had was a bad one. I have several of them and next to my 1911's they has the absolute best triggers out of all of my pistols without question. As for weight, I do not consider that to in any way suggest it is overrated. It is afterall an all steel gun. Again i don't know, I have carried one many many days and never noticed the weight at all. With a proper holster and belt it fits as well as anything else I carry, 1911, G23, etc. I guess everything is just what you are used to, but again the triggers on mine on nearly as good as my 1911's and they are excellent.

I understand your point here. Hwever in a later post the OP stated he has a 357. The question I would ask you is, wouldn't you rather have the 357 than the 9? I surely would, by a long shot. If a 9 is all you have, then that is all you have. Take it and pray not to have to use it. I am unconvinced a 9 would kill a determined bear before it killed you.

Yep, a 357 will penetrate the engine block of a car. It has been done in real world situations. Penetrate is perhaps a bad word, let's use the word disable, crack, not go through. The myth of it going through started back in the beginning of the rounds life, when a marketing scheme turned into a larger myth than is reality. And let's be clear, we are talking about the old cast iron engines back in the day, softer than today but prob harder than aluminum and we are talking about cars, not trucks. Let's not miss the forest for the trees, the point is it has the ability damage very hard objects, including a bear or most animal's heads from close range. t is not the best of defense rounds today, if it ever was. However, it is a good back-up hunting gun. If I had a 9mm and a 357, I would definitely take the 357 every day and twice on Sunday. Unless this is to become common need, I wouldn't necessarily buy a 44, 454, or 50 mag just for this purpose. Unless you need an excuse to do so. Now don't get me wrong on any pistol round. It is last chance, close shot stuff here. I would certainly prefer a good rifle round. This last bear I saw had 2 7mm Rem Mag's on it and I was wishing I had a 416 about then.