chances R

This is probably the only time I wish this site had 'smell-a-vision'

The higher end electronic muffs cut down on the db by compression.  Compression is where all sound is lowered to safer levels with uninterrupted sound.  The lower ends simply cut the sound off during high levels.......that is no sound is transmitted.  As I said previously, I have the HLeights and prefer the larger set indoors and with rifles.  I also use a single compression  electronic plug when shotgunning, outside pistol, and for hunting.  It gives amplification as a plus for range commands as well as hunting.  In the other ear I use a regular foam plug.

Leights makes 2 models of electronic muffs.  The larger model has a NRR of 28.  Both work fine.  If you need more protection you can always add plugs.

The mechanics of the draw and operation of the safety have been hashed out forever.  It is as Dolomite explained.  It should be automatic.  Especially if one is moving/clearing, etc.  The thumb rides the safety and the trigger finger rides the slide.  I cringe when I hear the safety comes off at the draw.....ask Tex how that worked out.  If the weapon is actually 'engaged', after checking the vicinity, the safety is flipped on.  I have even caught myself flipping the safety off/on between targets in IDPA as it becomes 'memorized'.

WSF for 9mm   and Bullseye for .45

Looks like the LC has greatly overestimated his relative worth and importance.  May he continue feeding his BS to Piers Morgan and the like and remain on foreign soil the rest of his days.

My question is WHY NOT use the safety if you have one?  IF 'time' is the issue, then you need to become more familiar with your presentation.  The safety going off/on should be automatic and a non-factor in any situation.  As previously pointed out by ETPatriot, a lot of things make a gun go boom other than the trigger finger.

To the OP.....use whatever you have trained with and hopefully therefore comfortable operating in low light.  If an auto, at least one spare mag available.  Have some sort of plan at least as a starting point.  When the SHTF, so do most plans.  Remember, in a real confrontation, most are only 25 - 50% as good as they are on their best day at the range.  Training and Practice elevate your baseline.

We all agree this is an unfortunate situation and outcome.  It underscores the need for additional training, way beyond what a HCP course provides.  A misconception of most is that accuracy on a paper target is all that is needed.  For example, proper night technique, even with the use of a $30 light may have prevented this tragedy.  Hopefully as more exercise their right to carry, they also will seek additional training.

Tactical Advantage in Knoxville has had a Virtual Trainer for over a year.  Hundreds of different targets, head to head games, etc.  The real life training scenarios are super and an eye opener.  It is interactive as well. 

Yep me too..  But trust me, there are a lot more bigger WHOOPS with 44 mags. :yuck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND81tMeggdM   This is somewhat relevant but with 9mm which is known for its 'shoot-throughs'

Exactly.  Take the Zimmerman case.  If there had been any pistol modifications ( trigger job with a 2# pull) or the use of the 'souped-up nuclear tipped' Zombied proof reload, the Defense would have  exploited that to no end.  I have to trust those who have been expert witnesses, such as Ayoob, and simply take his word and advise when it comes to these matters.  He says use what local LEO use and that's good enough for me.

The LEO around here use Golden Sabre, so using Massad's recommendations, that's what I use.  But I sure make some pretty Hornady 185gr. XTP over 5.7gr. Bullseye.  Use nickel-plated case just to class things up a bit

As I have said in the past, the LAST thing I want to do is have to shoot someone.  If there is a easy way out.....take it.  Don't go outside looking for trouble, and if you do, go back inside.  It is simply not worth the time, hassle, questions, prison, and regret.

If you are new to a caliber, I would stick to one type bullet until very comfortable with the results.  Take good notes to reference in the future as well.  You will get a lot of variations for even one specific load with different manuals as well.  I load very few 'hot' loads as I depend on factory rounds for SD/EDC.  So anything else will be more than adequate to punch a hole in paper as long as it cycles your gun.  The lighter load beats you and the gun up less.

Very good discussion.  I mirror prag's journey; thought I knew what I was doing and could shoot a pistol.  As said, you don't know what you don't know.  I have invested quite a bit in over 200 hrs of training with a number of different instructors.  It is important to realize that one must master basic shooting skills as well as safe gun handling skills before moving on to more advanced tactical maneuvers.  Suarez and Cruel Hand Luke have several levels of programs to do just that.  Too many people think the HCP course is a suitable training course and they are sadly mistaken.  Tactical Advantage Corp. in Knoxville is now offering multiple level courses at very reasonable prices.  I would hope that anyone who is willing to assume the responsibility of every day carry would understand the need for additional training and discover some of what they don't know.  There is a whole lot more to it than simply strapping a gun on because you have a permit.

would be I interesting to see how it performs after a good cleaning.  One should always clean a new firearm. What kind of ammo?

don't let the word 'progressive' scare you away from such a press.  I use the Hornady Lock and Load, and if you want, you can load one case, on station at a time.  Trust me, if you shoot a lot, you will want a progressive press.  Dozens of videos on You Tube, plus helpful forums like this one will get you going.  It is not that hard, just pay attention to detail.

Ah heck, what's wrong with blue jeans and tennis shoes?  All I had when I started.  However, I would have jumped in to a nice pair of 5mm neoprene and 1200gm. of thinsulate boots in a heart beat if they were available back then.  Especially fishing the Clinch.

This and contact Randy @ Suarez as previously stated.

Hiring someone to work is a lot different from hiring someone to work and let them carry a gun.  Especially if the qualifications is a simple HCP class.  I can only imagine the worse case situations where an employ, trying to defend company property (which is insured) shoots two or three customers. It is not a simple situation when dealing with the public in a retail situation such as GM.

Don't know the specifics to this range, but some ranges are still having to deal with the shortage.  They want people to shoot at their range and try to have enough ammo on site for shooters that are actually using the range.  I think this is more of a 'use it here it is cheaper' policy.....not a 'brass' charge.  It sounds like they have very little markup to encourage use of their range.

Well since I have started using the Lee FCD my feeding problems have virtually disappeared.  This is especially true with cast bullets.  I use it in 45 and 9 s.   My bullet seating die (Reddings Pro) come no where near eliminating all of the bell for my cast bullets.  The FCD finishes off the case at .468 for me. 

Remember, on a school grounds or campus, a visible handgun will get you a lot of attention, and more.